Single topic debate #2

[VaBusa]

I'm in no way trying to rock anyone's faith Ron...that's the last thing on my mind...

I'm learning here

 

[warwgn]

Food for thought God's word said

stop right there, your source for that statment is invalid. You are assuming the bible is fact, so if you plan to refreance it you must first establish it as fact so untill you do so please dont quote opinion and try to pass it off as fact.

In answer to your question what exactly is Fact?
Would that be for example...
The scientific community reporting in 1922 that a tooth that was discovered in western Nebraska, was declared to combine the characteristics of the chimpanzee, Pithecanthropus (a postulated apeman), and man. He later became recognized as "Nebraska man" and was regarded by some as a potential human ancestor. Then five years later in 1927, it was announced that the tooth actually belonged to a pig. Oops guess not.....
Maybe it was a factual reporting of the first skeleton of Neanderthal man which was unearthed in 1856! Oh yea, can't be that one either as almost a century later, a close examination of the skeleton revealed that it was that of an old man crippled with osteoarthritis and rickets!
So, what exactly are facts? and how long must they stand the test of time to be considered valued? God's word has been with us since the begining of time, without copy write I might....


Who has more faith....
Me believing in God!
OR
You & your faith that "Evolution" MUST somehow have occurred, because the only alternatives are magic and divine creation! Since you believe in Science what about The law of entropy; It shows that the universe does not have the ability to have sustained itself from all eternity. In other words, the universe cannot be eternal and requires a beginning.

the ford pinto is known to have been prone to blowing up, therfore you are crazy to drive a ford since we know they blow up, and probally most cars will blow up soon too since we know they do.

Great argument and logic dont you think?

Well ok on that thinking I could pull up Noahs ark, Adam and eve, young earth, blah,blah,blah.

There are no absolute facts, only what we come to call fact which is actually a extremly high probability given evidence and experment, that can be tested.

Now given the subject at hand, if you throw the bible out and look at the world, history, fossils, and all the physical evidence we have it points to evolution.

Nothing at all points to creation except our imagination and a single book written by men and re-written over and over, with no physical evidence at all. The only supporting evidence for creation is the bible, take it away and you have ZERO evidence to support creation.

 

[Revlis]

I changed my mind I don't want to get into this one

Puzi! Cum'on in and play...

okay one question do you celebrate Christmas with family etc.?

Sure do but only because of it's original Pagan/Nordic roots,

NOT because the Romans adopted it into Christianity due to their failure to stamp it out...

So remember, Christians PUT Christ in Christmas, but NO MATTER how you rationalise it, it has NOTHING to do with Christ...

 

[ks-waterbug]

There are no absolute facts, only what we come to call fact which is actually a extremly high probability given evidence and experment, that can be tested.[/QUOTE]

You are learning Grasshopper, cept for the last part! Those are odd's

 

[onerabidshark]

as far as evolution show me any proof? kinda hard ain't it! Just theories, by scientist, I mean I wish some of it was right cause I would love to get on a rocket traveling at the speed of light cause time is supposed to slow down dang I could live longer, oh shoot there is no proof in that THEORY either, just some scientist trying to get his name on a pulitzer or something,

You have to admit word of mouth albeit sometimes misconstrude alittle, the length of time that religion has passed down through the generations with minimum changes, and researched and decifered, to mean the same thing over and over again you would think would have something to it huh, not like evolution and its theories which are how old with no written documentation from thousands of years like religion actually does,

I mean I believe in God, Jesus, and that there will be a judgement day,

At the same time you are you, you can believe in anything you want, doesn't phase me in the least,

but if I am right when the time comes just simply saying I change my mind I want to live forever to won't cut it,

and if you are right we are all doomed to die anyway so why is anyone trying to live by the basic rules set aside by the ten commandments cause its right, if there is no god the ten commandments or all laws and rules do not matter cause you have nothing to live for

 

[Revlis]

Nice things about science is that it is allowed to evolve, theories change, opinions altered as evidence is gathered.

Unlike Christian Dogma, which is locked down, and sworn to as FACT, regardless of the current trends. When Changes have been made, they are ignored, and everyone plays stupid. "What, it's allways been like that, Yeah, Christmas is when jesus was Born..." Blah Blah Blah... Ignoring the fact that it was never a part of Christian Faith, now it is and it's celebrated by Millions as a birthday. Even though its not...

Regardless of the Evidence, of new ideas or theories, the Catholics and Christians in general Cling tightly to the establishment for fear of loosing power, money, control over the heards...

 

[slimshady]

The physical evidence collected over recorded history is not enough to even make a Blip on the timeline of Human Evolution. Major evolutionary events occur over many millenia... Not just two or three thousand years.
We are still evolving. We are taller than 100 years ago, you calling that stagnation in evolution?
How about the size of our Cranium? It is getting so big in utero that it is getting more and more difficult to birth... That is leading to larger brain capacity and increased capability to learn. We are advancing to adapt to an intellectual age beyond the scale of which any has ever been known. The types of advances being made in this day overtake anything humanity has ever accomplished. Don't even talk about the pyramids. Because now we have machines and vehicles to build that sort of grand scale development in a much shorter and precise fashion.

now you can give me some true facts and NOT thoughts about why or how we evolved from monkeys and other lower species of life.
better yet, tell me WHY aren't these lower species still evolving into human beings today?

?

?

?

?

you wrote:

" We are advancing to adapt to an intellectual age beyond the scale of which any has ever been known."


by becoming intellectuals have we therefore become stupid enought to believe CRAZY ideas that people can come up with and still have nothing to PROVE it??? i dont call that smart, i call it foolishness!!!!!!!!

IF evolution is true:
why stop there, let's just say that mankind evolved from dogs, cats, and any other animal that you want to pick.  

(evolution lottery!!!, pick the animal that you came from & you win a gift!)

 

[warwgn]

without the fiction of the bible nothing supports creation! What else you got?

 

[VaBusa]

You have to admit word of mouth albeit sometimes misconstrude alittle, the length of time that religion has passed down through the generations with minimum changes, and researched and decifered, to mean the same thing over and over again    

The plagues listed in the Bible, the deaths of every first born, an exodus led by Moses and the parting of the sea...every bit of that can be explained by geological occurances; will the faithful accept that as a valid answer?  Probably not...did it all really occur as some mystical event or did nature have a hand in it?  Doesn't really matter because it's subjective...

I'm not out to change anyone's mind on faith or their lack of faith or otherwise, but I like facts...taking for granted that XYZ was written in the Bible and passed down to put fear in followers isn't fact and that it can be explained by science, for me, makes me feel like many stories in the Bible are just that, stories...

...science AND religion can both be very subjective, can be misconstrued to better fit what someone wants them to be...everything you say against science can easily be said against religion...

 

[onerabidshark]

I changed my mind I don't want to get into this one

Puzi! Cum'on in and play...

okay one question  do you celebrate Christmas with family etc.?

Sure do but only because of it's original Pagan/Nordic roots,

NOT because the Romans adopted it into Christianity due to their failure to stamp it out...

So remember, Christians PUT Christ in Christmas, but NO MATTER how you rationalise it, it has NOTHING to do with Christ...

Good you know, I was just going by what most people think that it is in normal religion, because by all accounts of Christ Birth there were shepherds tending flocks still, and during winter just like todays times they brought them in so December is very unlikely that he was born then, plus in actual biblical verse you are supposed to acknowledge his death since his death actually gives us a chance at a new and better life. Just like Halloween is an actual Pagan holiday, how it ever got its comeupance I have no idea.

kudos to Rev for knowing

 

[tinmann840]

Eveolution is a process that takes millions of years . Homosapien has only been the dominate speices for a blink of an eye in evolutionary terms. I'm leaning towards Evolution. I believe that extraterrestrials brought life to earth . When I say ET's I mean comets and asteroids brought water and the elements that eventually created the first life forms. I also believe they have brought other things like diseases that we have no current cures for . We are constantly bombarded by meteors. Some burn up in the atmosphere but some find there way to the earth . Whats to say what these visitors bring with them. I'm not discounting a surpreme being , I just don't think its the way KING JAMES and his royal editing staff has it laid out in the bible . Religion has always been another means of control .
Here's somethng to think about . If we could unlock the potential of the 90% of the human mind that we don't use what would we have evolved into then ?

 

[BlueHaya]

Is there a difference between adapting and evolving? People from different parts of the World look different and if we are from one species, why do we look different?? Did we evolve differently in different climates? or were we created differently??

 

[Devious]

So, here's my take on this...
I believe in God...
Simple. Do I have proof God does exist...
No...
I can't see him...
I can't reach out and touch him...
But, I know he's there, how could I exist without him...

I also believe in the air that I breath...
Do I have proof that Air does exist...
No...
I can't see it...
I can't reach out and touch it...
But I know it's there, how could I exist without it...
But then, that's just my opinion...


David

 

[dudewizr]

Nice things about science is that it is allowed to evolve, theories change, opinions altered as evidence is gathered.

Unlike Christian Dogma, which is locked down, and sworn to as FACT, regardless of the current trends.  When Changes have been made, they are ignored, and everyone plays stupid.  "What, it's allways been like that, Yeah, Christmas is when jesus was Born..."  Blah Blah Blah...  Ignoring the fact that it was never a part of Christian Faith, now it is and it's celebrated by Millions as a birthday.  Even though its not...

Regardless of the Evidence, of new ideas or theories, the Catholics and Christians in general Cling tightly to the establishment for fear of loosing power, money, control over the heards...  

Science is allowed to evolve? You mean science is allowed to change when proven wrong each time. Sound like a weather man, first it's gonna rain, oops now it's gonna be sunny no wait a minute maybe it'll rain. Oh well who knows what its gonna do.

I like being locked into something solid, it's kinda like the north star. It will always be north and Gods word will always be right.

 

[warwgn]

So, here's my take on this...
I believe in God...
Simple. Do I have proof God does exist...
No...
I can't see him...
I can't reach out and touch him...
But, I know he's there, how could I exist without him...

I also believe in the air that I breath...
Do I have proof that Air does exist...
No...
I can't see it...
I can't reach out and touch it...
But I know it's there, how could I exist without it...
But then, that's just my opinion...


David

you can prove air, blow into a ballon and it fills with air.

turn on a fan and you can feel it.


anything that exists and has matter can be proven.

Ideals cant be proven, and God is an idea.

But thats not what was asked, so back to what was asked, Evolution or creation?

and there is nothing to support creation but a sole source, the bible, which it's self is not evidence of anything but mans imagination.

 

[VaBusa]

Yes, even science can evolve...oftentimes, it evolves with man's ability to use a particular tool, i.e. we used to lock up guys for rape without really knowing if indeed it was that guy, but now with DNA testing we can be sure we've got the right guy...

And, unfortunately, it depends on the desired effect the scientist wants...aside from concrete things like DNA testing, nearly everything in life can be twisted, misconstrued and misused to meet a particular mind set...religion included...

It's an unfortunate side effect of human thinking, yet a very necessary "evil" for lack of a better term...without the ability to twist things to our liking, we wouldn't think we know a whole lot LOL  Do you not think for an instant that someone decifering the Bible didn't twist something to better suit his religion at that time?  Just a question; I'm not flaming here...



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[warwgn]

Nice things about science is that it is allowed to evolve, theories change, opinions altered as evidence is gathered.

Unlike Christian Dogma, which is locked down, and sworn to as FACT, regardless of the current trends.  When Changes have been made, they are ignored, and everyone plays stupid.  "What, it's allways been like that, Yeah, Christmas is when jesus was Born..."  Blah Blah Blah...  Ignoring the fact that it was never a part of Christian Faith, now it is and it's celebrated by Millions as a birthday.  Even though its not...

Regardless of the Evidence, of new ideas or theories, the Catholics and Christians in general Cling tightly to the establishment for fear of loosing power, money, control over the heards...  

Science is allowed to evolve?  You mean science is allowed to change when proven wrong each time.  Sound like a weather man, first it's gonna rain, oops now it's gonna be sunny no wait a minute maybe it'll rain.  Oh well who knows what its gonna do.

I like being locked into something solid, it's kinda like the north star.  It will always be north and Gods word will always be right.

guess you have never heard of precession, but due the rotation of the milkyway the north star will not always be north! Or do you not think the stars move?

 

[VaBusa]

And, to further confuse...

If only God can create life, what do we say of scientists in labs creating life? Is it simply man thinking he's God? Is it a progression in man's scientific ability to further our own existence? It is all smoke and mirrors and not really happening?

 

[warwgn]

And, to further confuse...

If only God can create life, what do we say of scientists in labs creating life?  Is it simply man thinking he's God?  Is it a progression in man's scientific ability to further our own existence?  It is all smoke and mirrors and not really happening?  

well actually we havent created life only cloned it.

 

[VaBusa]

And, to further confuse...

If only God can create life, what do we say of scientists in labs creating life?  Is it simply man thinking he's God?  Is it a progression in man's scientific ability to further our own existence?  It is all smoke and mirrors and not really happening?  

well actually we havent created life only cloned it.

...if you view IVF as cloning, I will have to disagree...

Man can take egg and sperm and create life outside of the womb...

Albeit, we are not creating the egg nor sperm from a test tube, but we are creating babies in a lab...