No criticism John, we had a blast as always. If the NC bash don't want group rides that is OK, won't keep us away.
Suggestions for next Spring or Fall Bash.
- Thread starter Loomis
- Start date
No criticism John, we had a blast as always. If the NC bash don't want group rides that is OK, won't keep us away.
Hey, like I said, I see your point however there is some unfortunate history as to why things have evolved the way they have.
So far I haven't witnessed a Bash crash, so I can't say what caused any of them specifically. However, I have been in plenty of group rides, and have seen how they could go wrong. It seems that large group rides involving sport bikes can be broken down into a few segments of riders.
First, you have riders who are fast and have the ability to leave the majority of the group behind without creating a dangerous situation.
Then you have the guys who, for whatever reason, are slower members of the group. Maybe they just aren't as skilled at higher speed riding, or maybe they aren't familiar with the road and just want to be cautious. Not a problem here at all.
The next two groups are where you begin to have issues...
You have riders who just can't stand to ride within their skill level on the given road. Maybe it's because of adrenaline, or because they can't bear the thought of being one of the slower guys. Whether it's out of ignorance or some sort of macho thing, these guys are riding beyond their skill level and put themselves and the rest of the group at great risk.
Then you have the riders who might be new to the bike or new to riding in general, and may be afraid of holding the group back. These riders may unknowingly put themselves and others in an unsafe situation by trying to keep up instead of riding their own ride.
It seems to me that these different groups are more clearly defined among sport bikers than with other types of motorcycles. 99.9% of the time, our speed is limited by the rider's ability rather than the limitations of the machine. That is not always the case with other motorcycles, where you run into lower limits of things like lean angle, horsepower, and braking ability. Those factors tend to help level the playing field for cruisers and the like. With us, it's all about honestly evaluating your skill level and abilities, and not riding outside of those limits.
If everyone can be honest with themselves about what they can safely do on their given machine, all will be well. The faster riders won't mind waiting a few minutes at the next stop, and the slower riders shouldn't mind taking a few extra minutes to get there.
If we can't manage to do this, then I think smaller groups like we typically do now are the safer way to go.
First, you have riders who are fast and have the ability to leave the majority of the group behind without creating a dangerous situation.
Then you have the guys who, for whatever reason, are slower members of the group. Maybe they just aren't as skilled at higher speed riding, or maybe they aren't familiar with the road and just want to be cautious. Not a problem here at all.
The next two groups are where you begin to have issues...
You have riders who just can't stand to ride within their skill level on the given road. Maybe it's because of adrenaline, or because they can't bear the thought of being one of the slower guys. Whether it's out of ignorance or some sort of macho thing, these guys are riding beyond their skill level and put themselves and the rest of the group at great risk.
Then you have the riders who might be new to the bike or new to riding in general, and may be afraid of holding the group back. These riders may unknowingly put themselves and others in an unsafe situation by trying to keep up instead of riding their own ride.
It seems to me that these different groups are more clearly defined among sport bikers than with other types of motorcycles. 99.9% of the time, our speed is limited by the rider's ability rather than the limitations of the machine. That is not always the case with other motorcycles, where you run into lower limits of things like lean angle, horsepower, and braking ability. Those factors tend to help level the playing field for cruisers and the like. With us, it's all about honestly evaluating your skill level and abilities, and not riding outside of those limits.
If everyone can be honest with themselves about what they can safely do on their given machine, all will be well. The faster riders won't mind waiting a few minutes at the next stop, and the slower riders shouldn't mind taking a few extra minutes to get there.
If we can't manage to do this, then I think smaller groups like we typically do now are the safer way to go.
Im surprised nobody's interested in a pig roast?
Forget the group ride already let's just eat
Did I mention they used to call me PorkChop?
How about having scheduled rides with designated leaders and limit the group size first come first serve? The rides can be categorized by skill level and/or route difficulty. So for example a fast Dragon ride might be limited to 5 riders at a time. We could do many of these - like 8:00, 10:00, 2:00, 5:00, etc.
We could do bigger rides to places like the skyway but break the group into skill/speed levels. So if you want to ride like a bat out of hell get into the first group. If you want to site see get in the last group. We could have stopping points along the way where everyone gets back together. Maybe guys with radios can help traffic control.
Then we could do one parade lap over the mountain with all. Maybe get the cops to escort us. Nice and slow, just to maybe video a line of 40-50 busas.
Also we can have rules, like maintain formation and don't act like a jackass.
I was in the Microtel and thought this was just because i was missing things over there. Would be nice to have a schedule so we can know when our perferred trip/skill groups are riding.
I'm good with the way it was though. Next year I will feel more comfortable just asking people when they are riding and where. This year i was still feeling my way around and getting to know people. The only people I knew were Tim and Vabs. Vabs didn't get to ride much and Tim is way out of my skill level and I would just ruin his fun.
We could do bigger rides to places like the skyway but break the group into skill/speed levels. So if you want to ride like a bat out of hell get into the first group. If you want to site see get in the last group. We could have stopping points along the way where everyone gets back together. Maybe guys with radios can help traffic control.
Then we could do one parade lap over the mountain with all. Maybe get the cops to escort us. Nice and slow, just to maybe video a line of 40-50 busas.
Also we can have rules, like maintain formation and don't act like a jackass.
I was in the Microtel and thought this was just because i was missing things over there. Would be nice to have a schedule so we can know when our perferred trip/skill groups are riding.
I'm good with the way it was though. Next year I will feel more comfortable just asking people when they are riding and where. This year i was still feeling my way around and getting to know people. The only people I knew were Tim and Vabs. Vabs didn't get to ride much and Tim is way out of my skill level and I would just ruin his fun.
Even though I did not make it this year, in previous years it ran pretty smoothly with everyone breaking off to go do their own thing.
I know personally I enjoy taking the Bash newbies to see some of the sights such as the waterfalls and other attractions.
I have witnessed group rides gone VERY badly... and I've also been a member of a procession through the dragon for a VERY GOOD reason at a VERY slow speed. Big riding groups of alpha dogs (and we all know Busa riders are born alpha dogs) cause a lot of problems. Groups less than 5 bikes are usually optimal in my opinion.
My vote is to have some of us riders that enjoy the sights volunteer to let a couple (no more than 4) newbies tag along to see the sights and learn the area. I would never have learned where things are without Captain playing tour guide for me my first time. (And yes I promise not to take any Busas through creeks or on dirt/ rock roads)
I know personally I enjoy taking the Bash newbies to see some of the sights such as the waterfalls and other attractions.
I have witnessed group rides gone VERY badly... and I've also been a member of a procession through the dragon for a VERY GOOD reason at a VERY slow speed. Big riding groups of alpha dogs (and we all know Busa riders are born alpha dogs) cause a lot of problems. Groups less than 5 bikes are usually optimal in my opinion.
My vote is to have some of us riders that enjoy the sights volunteer to let a couple (no more than 4) newbies tag along to see the sights and learn the area. I would never have learned where things are without Captain playing tour guide for me my first time. (And yes I promise not to take any Busas through creeks or on dirt/ rock roads)
So far I haven't witnessed a Bash crash, so I can't say what caused any of them specifically. However, I have been in plenty of group rides, and have seen how they could go wrong. It seems that large group rides involving sport bikes can be broken down into a few segments of riders.
First, you have riders who are fast and have the ability to leave the majority of the group behind without creating a dangerous situation.
Then you have the guys who, for whatever reason, are slower members of the group. Maybe they just aren't as skilled at higher speed riding, or maybe they aren't familiar with the road and just want to be cautious. Not a problem here at all.
The next two groups are where you begin to have issues...
You have riders who just can't stand to ride within their skill level on the given road. Maybe it's because of adrenaline, or because they can't bear the thought of being one of the slower guys. Whether it's out of ignorance or some sort of macho thing, these guys are riding beyond their skill level and put themselves and the rest of the group at great risk.
Then you have the riders who might be new to the bike or new to riding in general, and may be afraid of holding the group back. These riders may unknowingly put themselves and others in an unsafe situation by trying to keep up instead of riding their own ride.
It seems to me that these different groups are more clearly defined among sport bikers than with other types of motorcycles. 99.9% of the time, our speed is limited by the rider's ability rather than the limitations of the machine. That is not always the case with other motorcycles, where you run into lower limits of things like lean angle, horsepower, and braking ability. Those factors tend to help level the playing field for cruisers and the like. With us, it's all about honestly evaluating your skill level and abilities, and not riding outside of those limits.
If everyone can be honest with themselves about what they can safely do on their given machine, all will be well. The faster riders won't mind waiting a few minutes at the next stop, and the slower riders shouldn't mind taking a few extra minutes to get there.
If we can't manage to do this, then I think smaller groups like we typically do now are the safer way to go.
Good observations. I don't agree with the first group not causing a dangerous situation. In a group ride, the leader sets the pace of the ride. You can tell everyone to ride their own ride until you are blue in the face. A group of spirited riders leaving the pack behind opens the door for the middle two groups. A group ride should be a ride, not a race. It can be done, but speed limit should be the pace and wait for folks that can't keep that pace.
I am torn here, the big group rides are great fun if everything goes as planned. However, Daniel and Dennis make great points. Personally, I now prefer to ride with different folks that express interest in going somewhere. I am happy to ride towards the back, middle, or front and have no issues with falling in line where ever I need to. However, when things do happen, it can ruin the entire trip for all involved. After a while you learn to trust the guys you usually ride with and know each others limitations and riding style. That alone can make a great deal of comfort knowing who is behind you. I wont say Eureka is good or bad, its just different. At the end of the day, the only desire is to have everyone back safe and sound and enjoy each others company.
That is a very responsible reply.
Personally I enjoy group rides, but I agree with Dennis if it is a group of unknown riders, the ride Captains need to set the rules, no egos, nothing to prove and not for those who want to test their skills. Being a ride captain is a responsibility, not something everyone wants to accept.
I agree with Twotone: I'm not against a group ride, but everyone needs to know that this was done: Briefing, the "talk", slow lead, etc. - and we still ended up watching a member nearly die on the Cherahola. I have the video; I went by the exact spot last weekend and still get chills. Not only was it bad for the rider, it was also bad for all the other riders who did nothing wrong but still got caught up in it. In hindsight, you could see it coming - so then someone has to be 'discouraged' and feelings are hurt. The ride leaders were MISERABLE over it. Group rides have been played down because nobody wants to be responsible for that and neither would I. Smaller rides have spread out the risk somewhat and that's why it's been standard over the last few years. Big rides = big risks; little rides = smaller risks to the group as a whole.
I understand, I would not want that responsibility, with the possible consequences either.
I differ to you guys with more experience on this. I don't do many big group rides because I rarely find that many people I wish to spend ride time with. I will say that I would ride with any of the people i met at the bash, except maybe racerV
I differ to you guys with more experience on this. I don't do many big group rides because I rarely find that many people I wish to spend ride time with. I will say that I would ride with any of the people i met at the bash, except maybe racerV
LOL
I think you should come over a few week-ends, let's go train some twisties and at the next bash kick his ass.
xchief1320
Registered
I didn't go to the bash but If I did and a big group ride was setup I wouldn't of went.
My reasons are..
I am a 2-5 max in the group kind of person. When you ride in big groups you have to constantly worry about the rider behind you. I'm always thinking did he leave enough room if I have to all the sudden get over, Is he going to be able to stop if I have to jam on the brakes,ect..
I also HATE when you see a rider riding someones tail in the twisties, ANYTHING can happen. I have been to the gap a bunch but do not ride the hill anymore because of the mentality most have. It is a public road, Not a race track. I do not care to be the fastest, I ride within my limits at all times.
And being selfish on this one, I really don't want to have to sit in a hospital waiting to see how you are just because you rode beyond your limits and wanted to be the man and show everyone how fast you were on a public road that has way too many hazards at any given time..
I've been around when alot of people have went down, and I hate it. It can happen even when you do everything right. So why stack the odds...
My reasons are..
I am a 2-5 max in the group kind of person. When you ride in big groups you have to constantly worry about the rider behind you. I'm always thinking did he leave enough room if I have to all the sudden get over, Is he going to be able to stop if I have to jam on the brakes,ect..
I also HATE when you see a rider riding someones tail in the twisties, ANYTHING can happen. I have been to the gap a bunch but do not ride the hill anymore because of the mentality most have. It is a public road, Not a race track. I do not care to be the fastest, I ride within my limits at all times.
And being selfish on this one, I really don't want to have to sit in a hospital waiting to see how you are just because you rode beyond your limits and wanted to be the man and show everyone how fast you were on a public road that has way too many hazards at any given time..
I've been around when alot of people have went down, and I hate it. It can happen even when you do everything right. So why stack the odds...
Why you gotta hate?:watching:I differ to you guys with more experience on this. I don't do many big group rides because I rarely find that many people I wish to spend ride time with. I will say that I would ride with any of the people i met at the bash, except maybe racerV
Just keep your distance when we park on hills brother!
Similar threads
