The election is over

[Red05]

Covid? I am not overly concerned about it as far as me getting it. Plenty of folks are suffering and dying from the shutdowns now whom would be being doing fine if they were still working and could support themselves.

The shutdowns are tough no argument. I'm not worried about my health either; it's the possibility of infecting someone that could be one of the people that die or nearly die that I'm thinking about. Employment is bad everywhere; people are staying home and not out spending; it's a serious pandemic. You can't possibly be comparing the number of deaths from staying home to deaths from the disease. Whether the economic hit is worth trying to protect our health is arguable. It's about everybody's priorities.

 

[fallenarch]

When you read about the healing sessions that occur in his group meetings over a weeks time where all attendees have already completed a high level home study course somethings happen that are not explainable by western modern medicine.

Only if you are curious will you look at Dr Joe's books like "You are the Placebo" or "Becoming Super Natural".

Covid? I am not overly concerned about it as far as me getting it. Plenty of folks are suffering and dying from the shutdowns now whom would be being doing fine if they were still working and could support themselves.

One simple example...
The list is long for how life altering these shut downs are when families lose a vital wage earner because somebody has to quit working to stay home with school age kids.

I think intelligent people make choices based on actual information, not "I heard" stuff. It's actually hard to find 2020 suicide rates on the net, as most aren't compiled but they would have to sky-rocket to rival the cost in lives of COVID. Also, note that had we locked down in the first place and maintained it when Trump made masks a political issue, the damage to our economy would have been much less. We know this as a fact by looking at other places where social discipline has resulted in startlingly less of an impact on lives and money.

You, Sir, are a master at ambiguity where the facts are not on your side.

 

[jellyrug]

I think intelligent people make choices based on actual information, not "I heard" stuff. It's actually hard to find 2020 suicide rates on the net, as most aren't compiled but they would have to sky-rocket to rival the cost in lives of COVID. Also, note that had we locked down in the first place and maintained it when Trump made masks a political issue, the damage to our economy would have been much less. We know this as a fact by looking at other places where social discipline has resulted in startlingly less of an impact on lives and money.

You, Sir, are a master at ambiguity where the facts are not on your side.

Trump is history, so blaming him for anything at this point or praising him for anything is mute.

I have only lived here 20 years, but been around the globe extensively before and during the 20.

Do you really think Americans will allow anyone, including the President, to lock them down and maintain that and force them to wear masks? Do you really think anything he said different would have made a difference? Do you think the Democrats and the public would have accepted mandated law in this regard without protest?

Perhaps I am not as smart as you, because what would work in China, Germany, Russia, Singapore, Japan etc., will not work here, so I answer no to all those questions. IMHO, what you know as a fact in other places shows a lack of understanding when comparing their culture to ours.

 

[fallenarch]

Trump is history, so blaming him for anything at this point or praising him for anything is mute.

I have only lived here 20 years, but been around the globe extensively before and during the 20.

Do you really think Americans will allow anyone, including the President, to lock them down and maintain that and force them to wear masks? Do you really think anything he said different would have made a difference? Do you think the Democrats and the public would have accepted mandated law in this regard without protest?

Perhaps I am not as smart as you, because what would work in China, Germany, Russia, Singapore, Japan etc., will not work here, so I answer no to all those questions. IMHO, what you know as a fact in other places shows a lack of understanding when comparing their culture to ours.

If you review history it was working amazingly well until the right's decision this was a disease that impacts old and ***** people and it wasn't worth stopping the economy for. Remember all those fools who went to Sturgis? Now North and South Dakota got slammed. The biggest mistake that was made with this pandemic was politicizing the need to stop the spread. We'll be paying for that for a long time.

Funny you can't even say the term ne-grow on here, hahaha

 

[Zerks]

Why would North Dakota get slammed with covid? Hardly anybody lives there which means the actual numbers coming out of ND to Sturgis would be minor as compared to the rest of the country where at least by my best guess is where everybody else came from. Mostly healthy people attended Sturgis and the place is pretty spread out as compared to 1000s of people protesting while walking down the street in unison. I don't hear the MSM saying anti Trump protest are super spreader events... do you? I don't really know... but I think its just more media hype like... see, we told you so... The MSM is a tool... a tool to deceive us a good part of the time when the politicalization factor is being exercised. Much of that is through the omission of certain facts designed to fit the fear mongering narrative they have promoted for decades.

By the way... we pay for everything good or bad...

 

[Red05]

Trump is history, so blaming him for anything at this point or praising him for anything is mute.

I agree, but amazingly I still see conservatives blaming Bill Clinton and liberals blaming George W for things. Apparently lifetime blame comes with the lifetime pension.

 

[jellyrug]

I agree, but amazingly I still see conservatives blaming Bill Clinton and liberals blaming George W for things. Apparently lifetime blame comes with the lifetime pension.

What that meant is at this point it is probably more important to focus on our new administration in its creation.

We can't rewrite the pages of yesterday, but for tomorrow, there is a blank sheet of paper and the Biden administration holds the pen which will write the future.

 

[Red05]

What that meant is at this point it is probably more important to focus on our new administration in its creation.

We can't rewrite the pages of yesterday, but for tomorrow, there is a blank sheet of paper and the Biden administration holds the pen which will write the future.

I was commenting on the blame thing. I agree with you 100% on mask wearing and the difference in cultures, and making the best of the new administration. While I don’t sympathize with considering being asked to wear a mask a limiting of rights, I understand that people are very wary of government control. I think it’s a matter of letting emotion get the best of common sense, and I hope I’m in the majority and most people exercise caution.

 

[Bumblebee]

I was commenting on the blame thing. I agree with you 100% on mask wearing and the difference in cultures, and making the best of the new administration. While I don’t sympathize with considering being asked to wear a mask a limiting of rights, I understand that people are very wary of government control. I think it’s a matter of letting emotion get the best of common sense, and I hope I’m in the majority and most people exercise caution.

Sad when public health and safety had to get politicized...wearing a mask or even locking down is a small price to pay to keep people safe.

I am not a fan either but I'm not selfish enough to think my inconvenience is more important than keeping those at risk safe.

Experts are in place for just these sorts of things, if their own government is not going to heed the warnings and advice of these experts, why have them?

 

[fallenarch]

What that meant is at this point it is probably more important to focus on our new administration in its creation.

We can't rewrite the pages of yesterday, but for tomorrow, there is a blank sheet of paper and the Biden administration holds the pen which will write the future.

I watched a documentary on the 1918 pandemic. Same dam mistakes. There are some big lessons here and moving on and forgetting about the things Trump has screwed up means we are all doomed to repeat them the next time a buffoon is elected Republican or Democrat. Besides, just as Trump convinced 40% of America that Obama wasn't even a citizen, he will be working hard to try and convince everyone he won this election and deserves another crack at destroying democracy. American voters are notorious for a 3 3/4 year memory.

 

[Zerks]

Sad when public health and safety had to get politicized...wearing a mask or even locking down is a small price to pay to keep people safe.

I am not a fan either but I'm not selfish enough to think my inconvenience is more important than keeping those at risk safe.

Experts are in place for just these sorts of things, if their own government is not going to heed the warnings and advice of these experts, why have them?

Its becoming very obvious that wearing a mask does very little in terms of stopping the virus from spreading. Most mask with the exception of a properly fitted N95 mask or higher rated mask will not and cannot stop the virus from passing through the face mask material. Now, wearing a mask does inhibit the flow of airborne particulate so a cough or a sudden sneeze could be beneficial to those around the person doing the coughing or sneezing. As we were taught as children... if you are sick, stay home and recuperate.

The inconvienance factor appears to have become another "politically correct" mandate by the hypocritical elected officials dispatching the draconian "Edicts" that are designed to create the illusion that they make a difference. Gov Newsome and other governors are the modern day examples of "rules for thee and not for me" and show us what power hungry tyrants will do when given the chance.

The politicization and madness surrounding the Chinese import is another prime example that reveals the mindset of elected officials that do not have our best interest in mind. The bill that was just passed is simply another example of pay to play politics where the graft machinery in DC fills up its coffers by getting paid back for all the campaign contributions that have funded all the various idiots that will exploit Americans when given the chance.

 

[fallenarch]

Its becoming very obvious that wearing a mask does very little in terms of stopping the virus from spreading. Most mask with the exception of a properly fitted N95 mask or higher rated mask will not and cannot stop the virus from passing through the face mask material. Now, wearing a mask does inhibit the flow of airborne particulate so a cough or a sudden sneeze could be beneficial to those around the person doing the coughing or sneezing. As we were taught as children... if you are sick, stay home and recuperate.

The inconvienance factor appears to have become another "politically correct" mandate by the hypocritical elected officials dispatching the draconian "Edicts" that are designed to create the illusion that they make a difference. Gov Newsome and other governors are the modern day examples of "rules for thee and not for me" and show us what power hungry tyrants will do when given the chance.

The politicization and madness surrounding the Chinese import is another prime example that reveals the mindset of elected officials that do not have our best interest in mind. The bill that was just passed is simply another example of pay to play politics where the graft machinery in DC fills up its coffers by getting paid back for all the campaign contributions that have funded all the various idiots that will exploit Americans when given the chance.

No offense but I will wait for scientific evidence of your opinions from a reputable source.

 

[Bumblebee]

Its becoming very obvious that wearing a mask does very little in terms of stopping the virus from spreading. Most mask with the exception of a properly fitted N95 mask or higher rated mask will not and cannot stop the virus from passing through the face mask material. Now, wearing a mask does inhibit the flow of airborne particulate so a cough or a sudden sneeze could be beneficial to those around the person doing the coughing or sneezing. As we were taught as children... if you are sick, stay home and recuperate.

The inconvienance factor appears to have become another "politically correct" mandate by the hypocritical elected officials dispatching the draconian "Edicts" that are designed to create the illusion that they make a difference. Gov Newsome and other governors are the modern day examples of "rules for thee and not for me" and show us what power hungry tyrants will do when given the chance.

The politicization and madness surrounding the Chinese import is another prime example that reveals the mindset of elected officials that do not have our best interest in mind. The bill that was just passed is simply another example of pay to play politics where the graft machinery in DC fills up its coffers by getting paid back for all the campaign contributions that have funded all the various idiots that will exploit Americans when given the chance.

I beg to differ, there are studies which have shown face coverings to be effective in minimizing the spread of particles. Don't know where you are getting your info so here is some of the info I have on the subject.

Even antigovernmental people should have a little common sense but then again that is something which is not very common. These idiots running around thinking the government is just trying to take civil liberties away are just that-idiots.

When you have your president running around not listening to his medical advisor (or any other advisor for that matter) it sure doesn't help matters...as a result the US is in the top 5 in the world with Covid 19 cases...not something to be proud of...

If he would have taken his head out of his behind at the very beginning and actually led his country, there most likely would have been less cases. He thought it was serious enough to expedite a vaccine.

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Masks (who.int)

COVID-19: How much protection do face masks offer? - Mayo Clinic

 

[Zerks]

Starting with the 2018 study conducted by the CDC would be a good place to start. the report is so long and complete its unlikely anybody would read it all because the details are a bit tedious.


Use of Respirators and Surgical Masks for Protection ...
Use of Respirators and Surgical Masks for Protection | NIOSH | CDC
Because both, respirators and surgical masks, are used in healthcare settings, it is important that employers and workers understand the differences between them. 1-3 A respirator is designed to protect the wearer from inhaling airborne contaminants such as dusts, fumes, vapors, and infectious agents associated with inhaling small and large ...

Effectiveness of Cloth Masks for Protection Against Severe ...
Effectiveness of Cloth Masks for Protection Against Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2
In fact, a recent CDC policy change with regard to community use of cloth masks (1) is also based on high risk for transmission from asymptomatic or presymptomatic persons (32). According to some studies, ≈25%-50% of persons with COVID-19 have mild cases or are asymptomatic and potentially can transmit infection to others.​

Face Mask Use and Control of Respiratory Virus ...
Face Mask Use and Control of Respiratory Virus Transmission in Households
Many countries are stockpiling face masks for use as a nonpharmaceutical intervention to control virus transmission during an influenza pandemic. We conducted a prospective cluster-randomized trial comparing surgical masks, non-fit-tested P2 masks, and no masks in prevention of influenza-like illness (ILI) in households. Mask use adherence was self-reported.​

CDC Study Finds Overwhelming Majority Of People Getting ...

CDC Study Finds Overwhelming Majority Of People Getting Coronavirus Wore Masks
A Centers for Disease Control report released in September shows that masks and face coverings are not effective in preventing the spread of COVID-19, even for those people who consistently wear...​

PolitiFact | No, a CDC-WHO study does not prove that masks ...
PolitiFact - No, a CDC-WHO study does not prove that masks do not prevent spread of COVID-19
The CDC generally recommends wearing masks in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain, such as grocery stores, pharmacies, and gas stations. As the CDC puts...​

New CDC and WHO Study Proves "No Evidence" Face Masks ...
New CDC and WHO Study Proves 'No Evidence' Face Masks Prevent Virus
"In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946-July 27, 2018." Reported estimates! Estimates are not hard data.​

 

[Red05]

Its becoming very obvious that wearing a mask does very little in terms of stopping the virus from spreading. Most mask with the exception of a properly fitted N95 mask or higher rated mask will not and cannot stop the virus from passing through the face mask material

Very little? Even a properly fitter N95 mask is not 100% effective, but the disposable masks are way better than nothing. I'm sure you'll post proof which disputes what doctors have known for decades, the masks do help quite a bit.

edit: looks like you've already struck

 

[fallenarch]

Starting with the 2018 study conducted by the CDC would be a good place to start. the report is so long and complete its unlikely anybody would read it all because the details are a bit tedious.


Use of Respirators and Surgical Masks for Protection ...
Use of Respirators and Surgical Masks for Protection | NIOSH | CDC
Because both, respirators and surgical masks, are used in healthcare settings, it is important that employers and workers understand the differences between them. 1-3 A respirator is designed to protect the wearer from inhaling airborne contaminants such as dusts, fumes, vapors, and infectious agents associated with inhaling small and large ...

Effectiveness of Cloth Masks for Protection Against Severe ...​

Effectiveness of Cloth Masks for Protection Against Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2​

In fact, a recent CDC policy change with regard to community use of cloth masks (1) is also based on high risk for transmission from asymptomatic or presymptomatic persons (32). According to some studies, ≈25%-50% of persons with COVID-19 have mild cases or are asymptomatic and potentially can transmit infection to others.​

Face Mask Use and Control of Respiratory Virus ...​

Face Mask Use and Control of Respiratory Virus Transmission in Households​

Many countries are stockpiling face masks for use as a nonpharmaceutical intervention to control virus transmission during an influenza pandemic. We conducted a prospective cluster-randomized trial comparing surgical masks, non-fit-tested P2 masks, and no masks in prevention of influenza-like illness (ILI) in households. Mask use adherence was self-reported.​

CDC Study Finds Overwhelming Majority Of People Getting ...​

View attachment 1630939CDC Study Finds Overwhelming Majority Of People Getting Coronavirus Wore Masks​

A Centers for Disease Control report released in September shows that masks and face coverings are not effective in preventing the spread of COVID-19, even for those people who consistently wear...​

PolitiFact | No, a CDC-WHO study does not prove that masks ...​

PolitiFact - No, a CDC-WHO study does not prove that masks do not prevent spread of COVID-19​

The CDC generally recommends wearing masks in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain, such as grocery stores, pharmacies, and gas stations. As the CDC puts...​

New CDC and WHO Study Proves "No Evidence" Face Masks ...​

New CDC and WHO Study Proves 'No Evidence' Face Masks Prevent Virus​

"In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946-July 27, 2018." Reported estimates! Estimates are not hard data.​

Old news bro. This is right off the CDC website: COVID-19: Considerations for Wearing Masks | CDC

 

[Dopey]

I am in no way anti mask and don't feel it's that big a deal to wear one if it puts others at ease. That being said our own busa brother has fought covid and his mild case definitely did not look fun but he even stated that the paper masks do nothing and I'm guessing he said that because he was wearing them when he caught it.

Thread 'Fighting Covid19' Fighting Covid19 | Random Thoughts

 

[jellyrug]

Its becoming very obvious that wearing a mask does very little in terms of stopping the virus from spreading. Most mask with the exception of a properly fitted N95 mask or higher rated mask will not and cannot stop the virus from passing through the face mask material. Now, wearing a mask does inhibit the flow of airborne particulate so a cough or a sudden sneeze could be beneficial to those around the person doing the coughing or sneezing. As we were taught as children... if you are sick, stay home and recuperate.

The inconvienance factor appears to have become another "politically correct" mandate by the hypocritical elected officials dispatching the draconian "Edicts" that are designed to create the illusion that they make a difference. Gov Newsome and other governors are the modern day examples of "rules for thee and not for me" and show us what power hungry tyrants will do when given the chance.

The politicization and madness surrounding the Chinese import is another prime example that reveals the mindset of elected officials that do not have our best interest in mind. The bill that was just passed is simply another example of pay to play politics where the graft machinery in DC fills up its coffers by getting paid back for all the campaign contributions that have funded all the various idiots that will exploit Americans when given the chance.

LOL, with respect, when it comes to Micro Biology it’s best you stick to working in your Kawasaki.

 

[Zerks]

LOL, with respect, when it comes to Micro Biology it’s best you stick to working in your Kawasaki.

Yes... you think you are making a funny comment. California has had the most strict rules for it's inhabitants and yet the virus is claimed to be worse here than most other places across this nation.

 

[Red05]

The rules are stricter there because the problem is worse, most likely due to concentration of populace in the bigger cities, not the other way around. I understand the view that being asked to stay at home or wear a mask if you go out is looked at by some as some sort of ridiculous power struggle.
The subject is whether masks help. It's not a 100% solution by any means but common sense has to tell you that they help and it's a very minor inconvenience.