The Gospel according to Oprah
- Thread starter SAMBUSA
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I still haven't gotten to your PM's. Lotsa work to deal with.(thrasherfox @ Mar. 25 2007,16:11) PM Sent Lou..
P.S. cant wait to see you in Vegas.. Nan is going also I presume?
Nan is going to be in Vegas with the rest of us! Can't wait to see you there, too.
--Wag--
(JINKSTER @ Mar. 26 2007,18:53)Your post makes little sense. didnt understand to what you were referring to as to being picky picky
And as far as you agreeing with Oprah.
If you are a Christian and believe in God, you shouldn't believe in Oprah
If you are not a Christian and / or don't believe in God, then by all means believe in Oprah. everyone should believe in something.
If Christianity doesn't do it for you and Oprah does. cool.
Everyone must walk their own path, I will never try and tell someone what path they should walk.
Attachments
Please don't ask why I am posting to this topic, I have no idea myself. I am sure I will get flamed for this but here goes....
I view myself as spiritual, but not religous. I believe in something, I just don't quite konw what that something is. Here is where I differ in view with many. I live my life as best I can. We have adopted "unwanted" kids (as in special needs). I treat others as I would like to be treated. If I live my life to the best of my abilities, and still cannot get to a Christians heaven (if that is truly the one that exists) then why not live the life of a total sinner/criminal/a$$hat and just go to church every Sunday to get where you want to go? If anyones god/allah/spiritual leader/icon has all of this power, but still allows people to harm innocent children and the elderly in all of the various ways that it happens daily, I am not sure that "one" is for me. If I had that much power for a day, there would be no harm to innocents on my day.
Thanks for letting me download my viewpoints. I feel everyone should be able to believe in whatever they chose, as long an those weaker never need to lose their innocence.
Todd
First let me say that I think its awesome of you to adopt "unwanted kids" so props to you(JET-A @ Mar. 26 2007,22)
Please don't ask why I am posting to this topic, I have no idea myself. I am sure I will get flamed for this but here goes....
I view myself as spiritual, but not religous. I believe in something, I just don't quite konw what that something is. Here is where I differ in view with many. I live my life as best I can. We have adopted "unwanted" kids (as in special needs). I treat others as I would like to be treated. If I live my life to the best of my abilities, and still cannot get to a Christians heaven (if that is truly the one that exists) then why not live the life of a total sinner/criminal/a$$hat and just go to church every Sunday to get where you want to go? If anyones god/allah/spiritual leader/icon has all of this power, but still allows people to harm innocent children and the elderly in all of the various ways that it happens daily, I am not sure that "one" is for me. If I had that much power for a day, there would be no harm to innocents on my day.
Thanks for letting me download my viewpoints. I feel everyone should be able to believe in whatever they chose, as long an those weaker never need to lose their innocence.
Todd
Secondly, those you refer to that live life like sinners, etc. and go to church on sunday will burn in hell(my beliefs). One is either hot or cold. Lukewarm doesn't cut it. One is better off not believing, than believing it but not living it 100%
I think the answer you are looking for is the word freewill.(JET-A @ Mar. 26 2007,19)
Please don't ask why I am posting to this topic, I have no idea myself. I am sure I will get flamed for this but here goes....
I view myself as spiritual, but not religous. I believe in something, I just don't quite konw what that something is. Here is where I differ in view with many. I live my life as best I can. We have adopted "unwanted" kids (as in special needs). I treat others as I would like to be treated. If I live my life to the best of my abilities, and still cannot get to a Christians heaven (if that is truly the one that exists) then why not live the life of a total sinner/criminal/a$$hat and just go to church every Sunday to get where you want to go? If anyones god/allah/spiritual leader/icon has all of this power, but still allows people to harm innocent children and the elderly in all of the various ways that it happens daily, I am not sure that "one" is for me. If I had that much power for a day, there would be no harm to innocents on my day.
Thanks for letting me download my viewpoints. I feel everyone should be able to believe in whatever they chose, as long an those weaker never need to lose their innocence.
Todd
that is usually the one that stumps people the most.
When you give freewill to a living creature, it opens up a Pandora's box.
So just for arguments sake, say there is a God.
Now, say as God you have the ability to create life in any form you choose.
Now, the decision, do you make this life form and program it with no freewill so it does everything you want it to do.
Or do you program it will freewill and allow it to make its own decision and its own destiny even if it means some will cause pain to others and itself?
If you look at it from a logical position there is nothing to be gained by creating something that has no freewill
So the only true and fair option is to give freewill to your creation.
And there in lies the dilemma.
If God controlled everything that happens and controlled us, we would live in a paradise, but a controlled paradise, and people would complain.
If God allows us freewill as God does, then anytime there is any suffering everyone wants to blame God. how come God didn't stop this? how come God did do this?
Guess what? when you have freewill you reap the benafits but also are held to the consequences. you cant have it both ways. Have a God who allows you free will but stops someone else from exercising their freewill because someone else might not like it.
And just because someone goes to Church on Sundays does not mean a thing. someone can go to church 5 days a week and put on an outside appearance of submission to God but not be submissive in their heart.
and on the flip side, a person could be totally submissive to God in their heart and never go to church.
Outward works and deeds mean nothing, what is important to God is what is in a persons heart.
I don't think she said anything wrong or offensive in any way...she's not the devil, at least last time I saw her I didn't see a shady beast just waiting to pounce on unsuspecting humans and ship them off to hell
AND, if this kind of influence being spread across the air ways upsets so much, you might not want to turn on MTV, any news channel or hell, I've seen some shady McDonald's commercials lately, might want to stop watching those too...
Oprah doesnt upset me. I just kind of feel sorry for her. In many ways.(VaBusa @ Mar. 27 2007,06:06)So, everyone's up in arms over an Oprah episode?! Man, you guys need to get out more LOL
I don't think she said anything wrong or offensive in any way...she's not the devil, at least last time I saw her I didn't see a shady beast just waiting to pounce on unsuspecting humans and ship them off to hell
AND, if this kind of influence being spread across the air ways upsets so much, you might not want to turn on MTV, any news channel or hell, I've seen some shady McDonald's commercials lately, might want to stop watching those too...
Apparently she does upset a lot of people...for what? For asking questions? Valid questions for those that seek answers, yet what she gets in return for those questions are ridicule and a short piece of her show posted on some Christian site so all of the others can be in "shock and awe" over someone questioning what so many question anyway
It's a joke that THIS is the type of stuff that Christians get up in arms over...a TV show...not the serial killers or child molesters, not those "of the cloth" that rape and molest the innocent, not the wife-beaters or Mom's that can't hack life and kill their kids, not the rampant porn on the web or hate spewed by groups that think their kind rise above all others, not the lyrics your kids listen to every day or the things they see on MTV, not your kids' soccer coaches showing the art of non-sportsmanlike conduct on the field while they scream because they want to WIN! WIN! WIN! Bet most don't give much thought to the fact that so many are hated because of the clothes they wear or the color of their hair, the color of their skin or the amount of money Mom and Dad don't have, and do you care that most of America is being propped up by pills to cure everything from restless legs to anxiety, yet we won't cure cancer? Nope, all of that pales in comparison to someone asking questions about faith and belief, oh and voicing an opinion. Oh yes, Oprah should be publicly flogged for that one, after all, this is America where once again the idea of free speech doesn't really exist if it crossed the threshhold of what the majority believes should be so...
I sit here and chuckle more and more everyday over these "discussions"...it's all shiny and bright when the gang gets in these threads and high-fives your fellowship and that you know "the way", but let one person raise a damn question and it's all hell and damnation LOL Oh yeah, good times...
Now, go ride...some of you need it...
P.S. Oprah just called me and she has indeed submitted all the necessary paperwork for her world domination plans...
And I still love you all...I'm going to take my pills now LOL
See the problem is Michelle you are not a Christian. I suspect from a lot of your posts and comments you either do not believe there is a God or at best you are not sure..(VaBusa @ Mar. 27 2007,07:34)Apparently she does upset a lot of people...for what? For asking questions? Valid questions for those that seek answers, yet what she gets in return for those questions are ridicule and a short piece of her show posted on some Christian site so all of the others can be in "shock and awe" over someone questioning what so many question anyway
It's a joke that THIS is the type of stuff that Christians get up in arms over...a TV show...not the serial killers or child molesters, not those "of the cloth" that rape and molest the innocent, not the wife-beaters or Mom's that can't hack life and kill their kids, not the rampant porn on the web or hate spewed by groups that think their kind rise above all others, not the lyrics your kids listen to every day or the things they see on MTV, not your kids' soccer coaches showing the art of non-sportsmanlike conduct on the field while they scream because they want to WIN! WIN! WIN! Bet most don't give much thought to the fact that so many are hated because of the clothes they wear or the color of their hair, the color of their skin or the amount of money Mom and Dad don't have, and do you care that most of America is being propped up by pills to cure everything from restless legs to anxiety, yet we won't cure cancer? Nope, all of that pales in comparison to someone asking questions about faith and belief, oh and voicing an opinion. Oh yes, Oprah should be publicly flogged for that one, after all, this is America where once again the idea of free speech doesn't really exist if it crossed the threshhold of what the majority believes should be so...
I sit here and chuckle more and more everyday over these "discussions"...it's all shiny and bright when the gang gets in these threads and high-fives your fellowship and that you know "the way", but let one person raise a damn question and it's all hell and damnation LOL Oh yeah, good times...
Now, go ride...some of you need it...
P.S. Oprah just called me and she has indeed submitted all the necessary paperwork for her world domination plans...
And I still love you all...I'm going to take my pills now LOL
that’s fine, I only mention this for a platform to make my next statement.
If you do fall under the category that I just mentioned, try to envision this scenario, and be honest.
Lets Say Oprah who is extremely popular, has a huge following were to get on air and make a statement to everyone that
There is only one God, and there is only one way to heaven and that is through Jesus Christ. And lets say an atheist or someone from the crowd started to argue with her, and the more they argued the more she became obviously irritated about it and finally said she would not argue religion with that person.
(basically putting the shoe on the other foot)
Would you still defend Oprah? honestly probably not because she would then be taking a side that you do not subscribe to.
Would there still be controversy over it? heck yeah, her ratings would probably fall more than they did with her defending a numerous ways to heaven philosophy.
anyway, my point is Michelle, that you make a statement that you don’t understand why Christians get so up in arms about stuff like this, well it is because from a Christians point of view she is misleading people and from a Christians point of view it is spiritually dangerous to people what she is doing.
If she were however to have acted like I stated previously confessing one God, one way to heaven only through Jesus, then you would probably be up in arms because in your mind, and from what you believe YOU would feel she would be misleading people and it would frustrate you.
As I mentioned Michelle, what you believe is your business, I still consider you my friend and would never try to change you or criticize you. My only reason for posting this is because of your statement as to why Christians get so up in arms, and I wanted to try and explain it in a way you would understand..
The bottom line is we all have our beliefs, and we all think OUR beliefs are the right one lol
So when we as humans feel this way we naturally get defensive when someone tries to say something that we "know" is wrong. whether something is wrong or not is subjective and a perspective. Two people can be on total opposite sides of the fence on an issue and both swear they are right..
The key is to understand this, accept all for what they believe, stick to your convictions but keep an open mind to all things and not be so rapped up in your own beliefs as to be blinded to the truth
As a Christian I question my belief all the time, I study other religions and keep a fully open mind. But so far even though I keep an open mind, and I have studied other religions, I am even more convinced of what I believe in.
And I have already taken my pills for the day
Oh, and Michelle, as far as people raising questions. The two people that specifically asked a question as to references, I PM'd them both with the best explanation I could provide. no condemnation, just did the best I could to answer their questions....
I don’t mind people asking questions as long as they are doing so out of an honest desire for knowledge.
However if people ask me a question with the purpose of trying to argue my position and try to pin me down and they do not honestly desire knowledge. then I choose not to waste my time.
Not saying my answers to people will make sense, and not saying that my answers will not provoke discussion or more questions. But I won’t waste my time explaining things to someone who has a closed mind and just wants to argue, but I will discuss with someone who argues but does so in search of knowledge?
Make sense? to me it does and to me there is a difference, and to me one is worth my time and one isn’t
I don’t mind people asking questions as long as they are doing so out of an honest desire for knowledge.
However if people ask me a question with the purpose of trying to argue my position and try to pin me down and they do not honestly desire knowledge. then I choose not to waste my time.
Not saying my answers to people will make sense, and not saying that my answers will not provoke discussion or more questions. But I won’t waste my time explaining things to someone who has a closed mind and just wants to argue, but I will discuss with someone who argues but does so in search of knowledge?
Make sense? to me it does and to me there is a difference, and to me one is worth my time and one isn’t
Well, thanks for assuming that you do know me..."see, the problem is Michelle that you're not a Christian"
That's rich...and oh so judgmental, but I digress...
My point was that so many are upset over what Oprah says. It's Oprah!!! There are bigger fish in the sea and far more controversial things to worry about...this controversy from so many that detest most things on TV ANYWAY yet you're wasting minutes of your life typing something YOU ALREADY KNOW IS TRUE, so why worry about what she says and how it may affect others? If you believe and you know the way to Heaven, don't give Oprah's 2.5 minutes of some random show on the xyz channel a second thought...I would assume that most Christians wouldn't feel the need to even discuss what point she brought up; they already have the answers they need, thus they move on with life praying for the folks that just don't know any better, right? I find it oh-so-ironic that little snipets like this Oprah clip make their way to that Christian site, why? So others can sit around and detest a human for her opinion? Gang up on just how bad Oprah is, oooohhhhhhhhhhh...do you see how pathetic that is in and of itself? Honestly, take a step back and tell me there's nothing wrong with gathering all of your fellowship around to talk about how Oprah's evil for what she said? Is that even rational? Yeah, don't answer that...
So I take it to the next level, and that level is the simple fact that those who don't believe or those who DO HAVE QUESTIONS aren't really allowed an opinion or platform at all? Correct? And there goes free speech which was the topic last week...if we all agree that Oprah's now the devil, then Christians would be happy? Based on this question she posed? Not based on all the good things she's done in her life or the things she's accomplished and overcome...just that 2.5 minutes of discussion posted on GodTube now have Christians in an uproar? It's silly and I say again, if you believe, why let it even get to you? Why feel the need to defend? Why not just sit back and feel sorry for the sad little people of the world? Do you really think the things you say change my mind? Would they change Oprah's mind? Do I change your mind? Nope...and that's always the end of the issue...
I'm not a bad person for my beliefs, nor do I feel you're a bad person for yours. I think many who won't even allow questions to be asked are only closing themselves off in to their little world and more importantly, disallowing others to even get a way in because it is so black and white. If that's how you want it, that's cool with me, doesn't affect my day to day life in the least bit. But, I have to say, when people aren't even allowed to get straight answers for their questions, but instead judgment, it's kind of akin to a cult, isn't it? You get this set of rules and you don't know how to deviate from it, not even enough to give answers without judgment, and I'm sorry, but for all that you think I'm not, I do know that Christians aren't supposed to judge, yet they do all of the time...
I wouldn't for a second assume I know Oprah's religious beliefs, yet here are a bunch of Christians judging her based on posing a question...a VERY VALID QUESTION...she didn't say she didn't believe in Jesus or that religion stinks, she didn't tell people she's the devil nor did she wish harm to anyone. She asked a question that no one can honestly answer, and now she's some horrible creature beaming her show to millions who will no doubt suddenly become less Christian because of it? Please...
My point was that so many are upset over what Oprah says. It's Oprah!!! There are bigger fish in the sea and far more controversial things to worry about...this controversy from so many that detest most things on TV ANYWAY yet you're wasting minutes of your life typing something YOU ALREADY KNOW IS TRUE, so why worry about what she says and how it may affect others? If you believe and you know the way to Heaven, don't give Oprah's 2.5 minutes of some random show on the xyz channel a second thought...I would assume that most Christians wouldn't feel the need to even discuss what point she brought up; they already have the answers they need, thus they move on with life praying for the folks that just don't know any better, right? I find it oh-so-ironic that little snipets like this Oprah clip make their way to that Christian site, why? So others can sit around and detest a human for her opinion? Gang up on just how bad Oprah is, oooohhhhhhhhhhh...do you see how pathetic that is in and of itself? Honestly, take a step back and tell me there's nothing wrong with gathering all of your fellowship around to talk about how Oprah's evil for what she said? Is that even rational? Yeah, don't answer that...
So I take it to the next level, and that level is the simple fact that those who don't believe or those who DO HAVE QUESTIONS aren't really allowed an opinion or platform at all? Correct? And there goes free speech which was the topic last week...if we all agree that Oprah's now the devil, then Christians would be happy? Based on this question she posed? Not based on all the good things she's done in her life or the things she's accomplished and overcome...just that 2.5 minutes of discussion posted on GodTube now have Christians in an uproar? It's silly and I say again, if you believe, why let it even get to you? Why feel the need to defend? Why not just sit back and feel sorry for the sad little people of the world? Do you really think the things you say change my mind? Would they change Oprah's mind? Do I change your mind? Nope...and that's always the end of the issue...
I'm not a bad person for my beliefs, nor do I feel you're a bad person for yours. I think many who won't even allow questions to be asked are only closing themselves off in to their little world and more importantly, disallowing others to even get a way in because it is so black and white. If that's how you want it, that's cool with me, doesn't affect my day to day life in the least bit. But, I have to say, when people aren't even allowed to get straight answers for their questions, but instead judgment, it's kind of akin to a cult, isn't it? You get this set of rules and you don't know how to deviate from it, not even enough to give answers without judgment, and I'm sorry, but for all that you think I'm not, I do know that Christians aren't supposed to judge, yet they do all of the time...
I wouldn't for a second assume I know Oprah's religious beliefs, yet here are a bunch of Christians judging her based on posing a question...a VERY VALID QUESTION...she didn't say she didn't believe in Jesus or that religion stinks, she didn't tell people she's the devil nor did she wish harm to anyone. She asked a question that no one can honestly answer, and now she's some horrible creature beaming her show to millions who will no doubt suddenly become less Christian because of it? Please...
Ok, Michelle you say that I assume to know you and I am being judgemental.
let me ask you a very simple question. it will be a yes or no answer. no explanations, just yes or no.
Do you believe in God and that Jesus is the son of God, that he came to earth and died for your sins that you may be forgiven.
All this can be answered with a yes or no.
If you say yes acknowledgeing Jesus Christ is your personal savior and that he died for your sins, then I will publicly appologize for makeing an invalid assumption.
If you cannot answer yes to this question then I did not judge you, I just pointed out a fact.
So.. yes or no?
let me ask you a very simple question. it will be a yes or no answer. no explanations, just yes or no.
Do you believe in God and that Jesus is the son of God, that he came to earth and died for your sins that you may be forgiven.
All this can be answered with a yes or no.
If you say yes acknowledgeing Jesus Christ is your personal savior and that he died for your sins, then I will publicly appologize for makeing an invalid assumption.
If you cannot answer yes to this question then I did not judge you, I just pointed out a fact.
So.. yes or no?
Nice way to try CYA there Ron...depending upon MY answers, you'd determine whether or not you judged me?!
Ummm yeah...
And now, to be completely fair and put myself out there so you can form a prayer group or something, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I BELIEVE and I don't just have blind faith in anything...there's too much hatred and evil in the world, too much corruption from those that preach, too many questions that some, including myself, NEED answers to...
Do I think Jesus existed? Sure. Do I think he's the son of God? Don't know...do I believe there's a God? Not sure, so I chug through life trying to find what I feel is right and good and true and because I don't just believe I'm a horrible person? My grandmother is an ordained minister, yet I grew up in a family that judged and blamed others for their problems all of the time, that talked behind others backs and hated just as easily as the next good Christian. Hypocrisy abounds and it's what holds me to wanting to understand more, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking questions; it's what separates us from the monkeys and it's human.
So, for you there's simple black and white and for me there's a lot of gray. You can say what you will about me and you can sugar coat it in any flavor you'd like, but you cannot for a second convince me that you're not sitting there judging me, Oprah and every other person that doesn't follow exactly as you do. That, my friend, no matter how you cut it up, is wrong...
Good news is that my last pill just kicked in and I won't hold it against you...guess there's something to being a member of that "gray area", isn't there...hugs and much love...
The poor pathetic gal that doesn't know her way in VA...
And now, to be completely fair and put myself out there so you can form a prayer group or something, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I BELIEVE and I don't just have blind faith in anything...there's too much hatred and evil in the world, too much corruption from those that preach, too many questions that some, including myself, NEED answers to...
Do I think Jesus existed? Sure. Do I think he's the son of God? Don't know...do I believe there's a God? Not sure, so I chug through life trying to find what I feel is right and good and true and because I don't just believe I'm a horrible person? My grandmother is an ordained minister, yet I grew up in a family that judged and blamed others for their problems all of the time, that talked behind others backs and hated just as easily as the next good Christian. Hypocrisy abounds and it's what holds me to wanting to understand more, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking questions; it's what separates us from the monkeys and it's human.
So, for you there's simple black and white and for me there's a lot of gray. You can say what you will about me and you can sugar coat it in any flavor you'd like, but you cannot for a second convince me that you're not sitting there judging me, Oprah and every other person that doesn't follow exactly as you do. That, my friend, no matter how you cut it up, is wrong...
Good news is that my last pill just kicked in and I won't hold it against you...guess there's something to being a member of that "gray area", isn't there...hugs and much love...
The poor pathetic gal that doesn't know her way in VA...
Ok, I finished reading the rest of your post.
the reason why people assume that Oprah is not a Christian is because.. well any true Christian would not even consider to argue with another Christian making a statement that there is more than one way to heaven.
Anyone that leads others to believe there is more than one way to heaven is not a "Christian"
There are some specific exceptions and this is where interpretation really comes into play and Allot and I mean ALLOT of understanding and deep thinking lol
In my PM I sent to Aughtsix and Wag, I did explain the concept of 'what about people who have never heard of Jesus" and I provided scriptural references. Not saying I am right lol.. but at least I am providing information to ponder.
And yes ANYONE that has honest questions should be allowed to ask them.
But too often, non believers and believers alike get wrapped up in arguments JUST for the sake of arguing, they have transcended from trying to share information and trying to come to an honest conclusion to trying to make sure THEIR point is made and they force their beliefs down someone else’s throat.
Believers and non believers are both to blame for this. Human nature is to want to always be right at any cost.
And for this reason is why I very seldom get into debates and I often will not bother answering someone’s question unless I feel they are honestly wanting to know something and not just trying to puff their chest up and prove they are right.
And if someone stumps me with a question I wont try to make up some lame answer, I will say I don’t know and I will ponder the question, research it, question my own pastor.
I don’t blindly believe, I question everything, including and even more so the teachings of pastors.
And we as humans are not supposed to blindly believe or follow any humans
the reason why people assume that Oprah is not a Christian is because.. well any true Christian would not even consider to argue with another Christian making a statement that there is more than one way to heaven.
Anyone that leads others to believe there is more than one way to heaven is not a "Christian"
There are some specific exceptions and this is where interpretation really comes into play and Allot and I mean ALLOT of understanding and deep thinking lol
In my PM I sent to Aughtsix and Wag, I did explain the concept of 'what about people who have never heard of Jesus" and I provided scriptural references. Not saying I am right lol.. but at least I am providing information to ponder.
And yes ANYONE that has honest questions should be allowed to ask them.
But too often, non believers and believers alike get wrapped up in arguments JUST for the sake of arguing, they have transcended from trying to share information and trying to come to an honest conclusion to trying to make sure THEIR point is made and they force their beliefs down someone else’s throat.
Believers and non believers are both to blame for this. Human nature is to want to always be right at any cost.
And for this reason is why I very seldom get into debates and I often will not bother answering someone’s question unless I feel they are honestly wanting to know something and not just trying to puff their chest up and prove they are right.
And if someone stumps me with a question I wont try to make up some lame answer, I will say I don’t know and I will ponder the question, research it, question my own pastor.
I don’t blindly believe, I question everything, including and even more so the teachings of pastors.
And we as humans are not supposed to blindly believe or follow any humans
I watched 30 seconds of the vid and once I saw it really was that pig (hoping for maybe a "In living color" spoof) I turned it off!
Next I started reading some of the religious post's Now while I don’t attend church at all or have a bible, I do believe in god (after all someone made us and our beloved Busa's) Lots of my friends say they don’t believe in god and I can tell you all I have witnessed these nay-Sayers first hand saying "Oh please god..........." while they were in pain or hung over. So in closing I will guarantee all of you that at one point in your life you will be looking to god, after all we all ride Busa's!!!
Next I started reading some of the religious post's Now while I don’t attend church at all or have a bible, I do believe in god (after all someone made us and our beloved Busa's) Lots of my friends say they don’t believe in god and I can tell you all I have witnessed these nay-Sayers first hand saying "Oh please god..........." while they were in pain or hung over. So in closing I will guarantee all of you that at one point in your life you will be looking to god, after all we all ride Busa's!!!
Michelle. honestly.. please believe me.. I am not judging you.(VaBusa @ Mar. 27 2007,10:11) Nice way to try CYA there Ron...depending upon MY answers, you'd determine whether or not you judged me?!Ummm yeah...
And now, to be completely fair and put myself out there so you can form a prayer group or something, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I BELIEVE and I don't just have blind faith in anything...there's too much hatred and evil in the world, too much corruption from those that preach, too many questions that some, including myself, NEED answers to...
Do I think Jesus existed? Sure. Do I think he's the son of God? Don't know...do I believe there's a God? Not sure, so I chug through life trying to find what I feel is right and good and true and because I don't just believe I'm a horrible person? My grandmother is an ordained minister, yet I grew up in a family that judged and blamed others for their problems all of the time, that talked behind others backs and hated just as easily as the next good Christian. Hypocrisy abounds and it's what holds me to wanting to understand more, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking questions; it's what separates us from the monkeys and it's human.
So, for you there's simple black and white and for me there's a lot of gray. You can say what you will about me and you can sugar coat it in any flavor you'd like, but you cannot for a second convince me that you're not sitting there judging me, Oprah and every other person that doesn't follow exactly as you do. That, my friend, no matter how you cut it up, is wrong...
Good news is that my last pill just kicked in and I won't hold it against you...guess there's something to being a member of that "gray area", isn't there...hugs and much love...
The poor pathetic gal that doesn't know her way in VA...
You answered the question.
I stated you were not a Christian, and by your answer you are not. that is fine.. honestly, that is none of my business.
I guess the point I am trying to make is there is honestly a spiritul thing about being a Christian, and if you are not a Christian it is sometimes hard to grasp what a Christian is trying to say or mean.
And it has nothing to do with a Christian being better or worse or smarter or dumber, it has to do with a spiritual equation that non Christians do not have access to..
for exmample, you lack the spiritual connection to Christ. that is fine. serioulsy. but because of this, when I say I do not judge you, you cannot fathom this or understand this. You think no matter what i say, somewhere deep inside I am still judgeing you.
On the other hand, any Christians reading this will know what I am saying, they will know I am not judgding you, just pointing out something that is true.
Honestly, it sounds like you are being harder on yourself about this than I am.
Seriously, what you believe is what you believe. I am not going to look down on you because of it. nor look up at you because of it. I have my own self to worry about.
One of the many serious concepts about Christianity is Mathew 7:1
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage....chapter
One of the things about being a Christian is the bible is placed on our heart. Often things that are in the bible that a Christian might not have ever read, will be burned into a Christians heart. When they read a passage it totally makes sense to them and they understand it. The spirit allows a Christian to live what is in the bible without ever having to even read the bible. That is an extreme example but the point is once your receive the spirit, right and wrong is clear and you feel the holy spirit convict you heart and lead you.
So with this in mind, not only does Mathew 7:1 tells us and warn us NOT to judge others, but a true Christian who has the spirit in them will be convicted and feel guilty if they try to judge someone else..
So no Michelle, I am not passing judgment on you. Just trying to get you to be truthful about where you are coming from so I can best provide answer to comments you are making.
Is it right or wrong that you believe or don’t believe? That is your business. Do I think you are a bad person because you don’t believe or you are not sure? No I don’t.
I have many friends that either don’t believe or are not sure. As a matter of fact I have some friends that to be honest I don’t even know what their position is. I don’t have a requirement that someone have a specific belief to be my friend.
And trust me, I laughed when you made a statement about getting a group of Christians together to pray for you lol.. not my style. If it is on my heart I would pray for you myself, but I am not going to hold candle light vigils and have people pray day and night for you.
Not needed. God is not going to force you to believe in him, it will not happen until if and when you are ready.
And all it takes is for one person, to pray once to gets God attention on you. I have faith that nothing else is required. And Michelle, I said my prayer for you a long time ago, and not for any specific reason nor event, I just like you and care about you and it was on my heart one day a long time ago to say a prayer for you and I did..
And because there's this possibility that Oprah's not a Christian, she's some horrible demon that must be publicly berated for asking a question?
Goes right back to where I get a little miffed...she asked a question!!! Because she posed this question, everything else about her, her life, her accomplishments and goodness go out the window so she can be flogged? Do you see how irrational that line of thinking is? And again, I can't go without saying "why let it bother you? Why bother defending your stance when it's clear to you that she's wrong and you're not? Why bring more light to something so many Christians clearly want to hide?" If you don't want everyone seeing what Oprah says, why go on about it in public forums? Why would anyone post that video on the Christian site except to judge and berate and pat each other on the backs as if to say "yeah! She's evil and we're all right!"
I guess what I see, as one of the gray area types, is a group of people so sure of themselves that they feel the need to continually reassure themselves in groups and gatherings. It's kind of like bullying in an archaic way. You get a group together that all feel like you do, then you KNOW you were right to begin with. It's all very ironic to me since the outershell displays nothing but confidence in your own beliefs, but then there's this underbelly of need to prey on the non-believers and push views on them, tell them their wrong, patronize them by saying "I'll say a prayer for you"...bullying is about as close as I can come to describing how this all looks from my gray cell
Bullying Oprah...should be a new show on TV...
Goes right back to where I get a little miffed...she asked a question!!! Because she posed this question, everything else about her, her life, her accomplishments and goodness go out the window so she can be flogged? Do you see how irrational that line of thinking is? And again, I can't go without saying "why let it bother you? Why bother defending your stance when it's clear to you that she's wrong and you're not? Why bring more light to something so many Christians clearly want to hide?" If you don't want everyone seeing what Oprah says, why go on about it in public forums? Why would anyone post that video on the Christian site except to judge and berate and pat each other on the backs as if to say "yeah! She's evil and we're all right!"
I guess what I see, as one of the gray area types, is a group of people so sure of themselves that they feel the need to continually reassure themselves in groups and gatherings. It's kind of like bullying in an archaic way. You get a group together that all feel like you do, then you KNOW you were right to begin with. It's all very ironic to me since the outershell displays nothing but confidence in your own beliefs, but then there's this underbelly of need to prey on the non-believers and push views on them, tell them their wrong, patronize them by saying "I'll say a prayer for you"...bullying is about as close as I can come to describing how this all looks from my gray cell
Bullying Oprah...should be a new show on TV...
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