Thoughts on Language

[Mr Brown]

Thanks. I know how easy these topics can become mistakenly inflamed when people that are passionate about their stance are misread. Text is not a great carrier of inflection.

To clarify, I'm not wanting this to deteriorate either, just enjoying a debate. Nothing personal, it's just the internet!

 

[Spectre]

To clarify, I'm not wanting this to deteriorate either, just enjoying a debate. Nothing personal, it's just the internet!

LOL, not a problem. I enjoy a good debate also. I've not taken anything personally.

 

[dadofthree]

These jobs in the U.S. would likely pay between $12/hr. and $14/hr. You'd have a difficult time staffing these positions in most economies with competent, reliable High School Graduates.

I disagree. $12 and $14 / hr. would be great pay for high school grads in much of America. Especially considering the job. Unfortunately you'd be hard pressed to find competent workers with any work ethic.

In India however, at this new employer there were rougly 5000 English speaking college graduates lined up to apply for 500 open positions. Working second shift...for $400/month in a country where the average annual income is $1000/year.

They would be earning 6 times the average and you don't mention the cost and/or condition of living.

Where's the incentive to do better? How about laborers in Mexico, China, and Korea who are happy to screw lug nuts on cars all day for less than what an American laborer would expect in an hour.

Again the standard of living. I can't understand the argument. For years I was recession proof and making good money. I didn't concern myself so much with where our country was headed and besides; there didn't seem much I could do about it. I voted and tried to raise my children well while providing for them.

Is the argument that we should live in substandard conditions and become a third world country ?

The incentive to do better comes from understanding that the U.S. today is not the world's dominant manufacturing power it was for thirty years after World War 2. What worked for the previous generation is not going to work in the future, no matter how much we drag our feet.

I guess it's a choice we all make individually and collectively. Personally I decided long ago I will not be that sobbing, laid off factory worker on the evening news.

It is not my intent to belittle/badmouth the U.S. On the other hand, we can keep patting ourselves on the back for what we (and previous generations) have accomplished while the train runs along without an engineer.

While it feels good to bask in the glory of our strengths, I personally believe it's more productive to continue critically assessing our weaknesses, then actively working to improve.

Feel free to disagree.

I agree with the above assessment. I'm truly concerned about our current state. We have lost a tremendous amount of manufacturing, not to mention our leaders have allowed us to be slowly but surely bleed dry by oil.

 

[Mr Brown]

LOL, not a problem. I enjoy a good debate also. I've not taken anything personally.

 

[J'Man]

Muchas Gracias Projekt.




Spectre you mention some valid truths. I'm not interested in seeing this thread deteriorate into a juvenile conversation, but I will answer the two questions you proffered.

Travel replaces the empty mind with an open one.

The best HD television available will not replicate the sensation one gets from sticking ones fingers two inches into the intricate marble carvings of the Taj Majal...a building 150 years older than the U.S. Declaration of Independence.

No photograph can convey the experience one has while viewing Michangelo's work in the Sistine Chapel.

No horror movie comes close to the experience one has while standing over Cenote Sagrado at Chichen Itza, where Mayan society performed human sacrifice in worship of their gods. It's dumbfounding what people will do to one another in the name of religion.

Tour countless buildings in Europe and Asia that have been standing for hundreds of years prior to the creation of the United States. It's about perspective, and the realization that the history and culture of the U.S. is not very mature.

No critically acclaimed movie will produce the stench of slums in Mumbai...nor will it show the lengths to which 80% of the world go to earn a standard of living at which most of us here would turn our nose up.

Touch the stones of the Appian Way...a road still in use today in some areas. A road ten times older than the U.S. Keep in mind the Roman Empire...dominant at the time, only lasted about 400 years. How old is the U.S. again?

Spending a little time outside rural America. One might realize that regardless of nationality, skin color, or religious affiliation, human beings everywhere share many things in common...the most universal of which I've seen is for their children to have a better life than they did.

It's about perspective...and travel changes perspective by providing more information. Keep in mind one can choose to actively seek information, or one can choose not to...which usually leads to ignorance.

Those are some of my thoughts about travel.

Where's the incentive to do better?

How about this one...when I interview someone with a High School Diploma for a position at my company, I have had to resort to giving a very simple logic and mathematical skills assessment test. It is absolutely pathetic what is coming through the pipeline from the education system today. There are a number of adults out there who think because they can speak English without an accent (they think...though they have an accent from wherever they are from in most cases), they are qualified for a job.

So where's the incentive?

While in India five or six years ago, I read a story in the Times of India about a call center that had recently opened in Bangalore. There were positions open for customer service representatives, working from about ten p.m. until six a.m., serving the North American market. You know the people I'm writing about...the ones we like to complain about having to talk to after we had a problem with the cheapest (computer, washing machine, stereo, etc) made in China that we purchased from Wal Mart.

These jobs in the U.S. would likely pay between $12/hr. and $14/hr. You'd have a difficult time staffing these positions in most economies with competent, reliable High School Graduates.

In India however, at this new employer there were rougly 5000 English speaking college graduates lined up to apply for 500 open positions. Working second shift...for $400/month in a country where the average annual income is $1000/year.

Is this an incentive to do better? Suddenly our inbred "mastery" of the English language doesn't have the same value it had twenty years ago.

Of course you won't see these stories on Fox News or CNN...they're too busy covering the latest celebrity death or missing blonde haired, blue eyed five year old.

Where's the incentive to do better? How about laborers in Mexico, China, and Korea who are happy to screw lug nuts on cars all day for less than what an American laborer would expect in an hour.

The incentive to do better comes from understanding that the U.S. today is not the world's dominant manufacturing power it was for thirty years after World War 2. What worked for the previous generation is not going to work in the future, no matter how much we drag our feet.

I guess it's a choice we all make individually and collectively. Personally I decided long ago I will not be that sobbing, laid off factory worker on the evening news.

It is not my intent to belittle/badmouth the U.S. On the other hand, we can keep patting ourselves on the back for what we (and previous generations) have accomplished while the train runs along without an engineer.

While it feels good to bask in the glory of our strengths, I personally believe it's more productive to continue critically assessing our weaknesses, then actively working to improve.

Feel free to disagree.

Nice post, some very good points to think about!

 

[F=MA]

These jobs in the U.S. would likely pay between $12/hr. and $14/hr. You'd have a difficult time staffing these positions in most economies with competent, reliable High School Graduates.

I disagree. $12 and $14 / hr. would be great pay for high school grads in much of America. Especially considering the job. Unfortunately you'd be hard pressed to find competent workers with any work ethic.

In India however, at this new employer there were rougly 5000 English speaking college graduates lined up to apply for 500 open positions. Working second shift...for $400/month in a country where the average annual income is $1000/year.

They would be earning 6 times the average and you don't mention the cost and/or condition of living.

Where's the incentive to do better? How about laborers in Mexico, China, and Korea who are happy to screw lug nuts on cars all day for less than what an American laborer would expect in an hour.

Again the standard of living. I can't understand the argument. For years I was recession proof and making good money. I didn't concern myself so much with where our country was headed and besides; there didn't seem much I could do about it. I voted and tried to raise my children well while providing for them.

Is the argument that we should live in substandard conditions and become a third world country ?



I agree with the above assessment. I'm truly concerned about our current state. We have lost a tremendous amount of manufacturing, not to mention our leaders have allowed us to be slowly but surely bleed dry by oil.

D.O.T. the idea I was attempting to communicate was why we should be attempting to do better, because those of us who still have the idea that America is, and will forever remain the be all, end all global economic powerhouse it once was, or even presently is, are likely to find themselves surprised one day in the future. Without investment in continuous improvement, we'll fall behind. The Japanese (and now Koreans) have taken advantage of our arrogance and lack of innovation in the automotive industry - I don't think any rational person can objectively dispute that. That's just one of the more visible industries out there. Why are we riding Suzukis and not Harleys?

Think for a moment about how many industries you can name that America is the undisputed global leader in. There aren't many anymore. This wasn't the case thirty years ago.

It was to point out the level of education, skill, and effort that once bought us the standard of living we presently enjoy is likely not going to provide the same standard in the future as globalization continues to bring more labor to the marketplace that is willing and able to provide the same goods and services for substantially less capital.

You're right, $12-$14 hr. was high (I believe you'd still have staffing issues at that pay level) but, even at minimum wage, Americans whose primary skill is speaking English are at a competitive disadvantage.

My intent was not to communicate that we should live in substandard conditions and become a third world country. It was that we cannot get comfortable coasting along expecting the lifestyle previous generations enjoyed and helped facilitate for us without sacrificing future quality of life. Sorry for the miscommunication.

 

[F=MA]

@ Spectre

 

[chrisjp]

we are stupid for how we teach our children and our "superiority" complex's ..time to wake up

 

[Vic_E55_2001]

Claro, pero no mames..

Isn`t that nice...

 

[Projekt]

Isn`t that nice...

That statement carries alot less insult than you'd think.

 

[BusaWhipped]

That statement carries alot less insult than you'd think.

Maybe I don't like being told to stop messing around.

 

[pbghost]

everybody just needs to speak Texan...it has prolly a little bit of everything and then some

 

[Projekt]

Maybe I don't like being told to stop messing around.

So you admit you were messing around?

 

[markiee43]

 

[markiee43]

I THINK THAT IF YOU LIVE HERE THEN YOU HAVE TO SPEAK ENGLISH AND FOR THOSE WHO WISH TO LIVE IN OTHER PLACES IT'S THERE CHOICE TO LEARN A DIFFERENT SO THAT THAT CAN SPEAK IN THE PLACE WHERE THAY WILL BE LIVING BUT FOR ME I STAY IN AMERICA WHERE I KNOW I AM SAFER AND THE HELL WITH OTHER --( Language"s.)-- IF YOUR HERE THE U.S.A YOU SPEAK ENGLISH BESIDES FOR ALL THESE YEARS THE GOVERMENT HAS STATED THE CHANGE IS GOOD WELL CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT CHANGE'S THEY DID IN THE LAST 20 YEARS. THAT DID AMERICAN PEOPLE ANY GOOD ?????? IAM STILL LQQKING I CAN SEE IT

 

[markiee43]

::WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE I FOUND IT, IT'S A COLOR CHOICE RIGHTObama 'stupidly' comment disappoints Mass. cop

,
Mass. – A white police sergeant who arrested renowned black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. said Thursday he's disappointed President Barack Obama said officers acted "stupidly," despite acknowledging he didn't know all the facts.

Sgt. James Crowley responded to Gates' home near Harvard University last week to investigate a report of a burglary and demanded Gates show him identification. Police say Gates at first refused and accused the officer of racism.

Gates was charged with disorderly conduct. The charge was dropped Tuesday, and Gates has since demanded an apology from Crowley.

Obama was asked about the arrest of Gates, who is his friend, at the end of a nationally televised news conference on health care Wednesday night.

"I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry," Obama said. "Number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home. And number three — what I think we know separate and apart from this incident — is that there is a long history in this country of African-Americans being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately, and that's just a fact."

In radio interviews Thursday morning, Crowley maintained he had done nothing wrong in arresting Gates.

"I DON'T support the president of the United States 110 percent. I think he was way off base wading into a local issue without knowing all the facts as he himself stated before he made that comment," Crowley told WBZ-AM. "I guess a friend of mine would support my position, too."

Crowley did not immediately respond to messages

Gates has said he was "outraged" by the arrest. He said the white officer walked into his home without his permission and only arrested him as the professor followed him to the porch, repeatedly demanding the sergeant's name and badge number because he was unhappy over his treatment.

"This isn't about me; this is about the vulnerability of black men in America," Gates said. . >WHY DO ALL BLACK PEOPLE WHEN IT COMES TO LAW THAT THEY ALWAYS USE THE RACE CARD CAN WE MOVE PASS THIS EVER ???

He said the incident made him realize how vulnerable poor people and minorities are "to capricious forces like a rogue policeman, and this man clearly was a rogue policeman."

Crowley, 42, said he won't apologize. And his union has expressed "full and unqualified" support for him.

On Thursday, he told WBZ that Gates verbally assailed him. The police report says Crowley asked Gates to talk outside, to which he responded "Yeah, I'll speak with your mama outside."

"There was a lot of yelling, there was references to my mother, something you woulnd't expect from anybody that should be grateful that you're there investigating a report of a crime in progress let alone a Harvard University professor," Crowley said Thursday.

Fellow officers, black and white, say he is well-liked and respected on the force. Crowley was a campus police officer at Brandeis University in July 1993 when he administered CPR trying to save the life of former Boston Celtics player Reggie Lewis. Lewis, who was black, collapsed and died during an off-season workout.

Gates' supporters maintain his arrest was a case of racial profiling which again is unture. Officers were called to the home by a woman who said she saw "two black males with backpacks" trying to break in the front door. Gates has said he arrived home from an overseas trip and the door was jammed.

The president said federal officials need to continue working with local law enforcement "to improve policing techniques so that we're eliminating potential bias."

"What I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately," Obama said. "That's just a fact." > ( no that is not that fact the fact is that black people have used this race card so long and have got away with it so long that we need to put a stop to it. All people are the same no matter what your color is .

Gov. Deval Patrick, who is black, said he was troubled and upset over the incident. Cambridge Mayor Denise Simmons, who also is black, has said she spoke with Gates and apologized on behalf of the city, and a statement from the city called the July 16 incident "regrettable and unfortunate." ( AGAIN HERE PROVES MY POINT A BLACK MAYOR WHO WASN'T THERE IS TAKING SIDES AGIAN THIS IS SO SICK FOR LAW INFORCEMENT .


Police supporters charge that Gates, director of Harvard's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research, was responsible for his own arrest by overreacting.

Black students and professors at Harvard have complained for years about racial profiling by Cambridge and campus police. Harvard commissioned an independent committee last year to examine the university's race relations after campus police confronted a young black man who was using tools to remove a bike lock, Yeah but if they didn't stop who ever it was weather black or some other color then they would say because it was owned by a black man there comment would be the police didn't care this is a lose lose position . The man worked at Harvard and owned the bike atleast he owened and it wasn't someone trying to steal it. How about some credit for the officer who was just doing his job

.

"That is part of being a police officer in a democratic society," Weinblatt said. "The point is that the police sergeant needs to be the bigger person, take the higher road, be more professional."

 

[Dino]

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE I FOUND IT IT A COLOR CHOICE RIGHTObama 'stupidly' comment disappoints Mass. cop
Buzz up!1886 votes Send
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Delicious Digg Facebook Fark Newsvine Reddit StumbleUpon Technorati Yahoo! Bookmarks Print AP – In this photo taken by a neighbor Thursday July 16, 2009 Henry Louis Gates Jr. center, the director of …
Slideshow:Harvard Scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. Play Video Video:Cambridge Mayor Offers Gates an Apology ABC News Play Video Video:Gates' Arresting Officer Unrepentant ABC News By BOB SALSBERG, Associated Press Writer Bob Salsberg, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 13 mins ago
NATICK, Mass. – A white police sergeant who arrested renowned black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. said Thursday he's disappointed President Barack Obama said officers acted "stupidly," despite acknowledging he didn't know all the facts.

Sgt. James Crowley responded to Gates' home near Harvard University last week to investigate a report of a burglary and demanded Gates show him identification. Police say Gates at first refused and accused the officer of racism.

Gates was charged with disorderly conduct. The charge was dropped Tuesday, and Gates has since demanded an apology from Crowley.

Obama was asked about the arrest of Gates, who is his friend, at the end of a nationally televised news conference on health care Wednesday night.

"I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry," Obama said. "Number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home. And number three — what I think we know separate and apart from this incident — is that there is a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately, and that's just a fact."

In radio interviews Thursday morning, Crowley maintained he had done nothing wrong in arresting Gates.

"I support the president of the United States 110 percent. I think he was way off base wading into a local issue without knowing all the facts as he himself stated before he made that comment," Crowley told WBZ-AM. "I guess a friend of mine would support my position, too."

Crowley did not immediately respond to messages left by The Associated Press on Thursday.

Gates has said he was "outraged" by the arrest. He said the white officer walked into his home without his permission and only arrested him as the professor followed him to the porch, repeatedly demanding the sergeant's name and badge number because he was unhappy over his treatment.

"This isn't about me; this is about the vulnerability of black men in America," Gates said.

He said the incident made him realize how vulnerable poor people and minorities are "to capricious forces like a rogue policeman, and this man clearly was a rogue policeman."

Crowley, 42, said he won't apologize. And his union has expressed "full and unqualified" support for him.

On Thursday, he told WBZ that Gates verbally assailed him. The police report says Crowley asked Gates to talk outside, to which he responded "Yeah, I'll speak with your mama outside."

"There was a lot of yelling, there was references to my mother, something you woulnd't expect from anybody that should be grateful that you're there investigating a report of a crime in progress let alone a Harvard University professor," Crowley said Thursday.

Fellow officers, black and white, say he is well-liked and respected on the force. Crowley was a campus police officer at Brandeis University in July 1993 when he administered CPR trying to save the life of former Boston Celtics player Reggie Lewis. Lewis, who was black, collapsed and died during an off-season workout.

Gates' supporters maintain his arrest was a case of racial profiling. Officers were called to the home by a woman who said she saw "two black males with backpacks" trying to break in the front door. Gates has said he arrived home from an overseas trip and the door was jammed.

The president said federal officials need to continue working with local law enforcement "to improve policing techniques so that we're eliminating potential bias."

"What I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately," Obama said. "That's just a fact."

Gov. Deval Patrick, who is black, said he was troubled and upset over the incident. Cambridge Mayor Denise Simmons, who also is black, has said she spoke with Gates and apologized on behalf of the city, and a statement from the city called the July 16 incident "regrettable and unfortunate."

The mayor refused Thursday to comment on the president's remarks.

Police supporters charge that Gates, director of Harvard's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research, was responsible for his own arrest by overreacting.

Black students and professors at Harvard have complained for years about racial profiling by Cambridge and campus police. Harvard commissioned an independent committee last year to examine the university's race relations after campus police confronted a young black man who was using tools to remove a bike lock. The man worked at Harvard and owned the bike.

Richard Weinblatt, director of the Institute for Public Safety at Central Ohio Technical College, said the police sergeant was responsible for defusing the situation once he realized Gates was the lawful occupant. It is not against the law to yell at police, especially in a home, as long as that behavior does not affect an investigation, he said.

"That is part of being a police officer in a democratic society," Weinblatt said. "The point is that the police sergeant needs to be the bigger person, take the higher road, be more professional."

___

Associated Press writer Melissa Trujillo and Denise Lavoie in Boston contributed to this report.
Related Searchesresident barack obama gov. deval patrick police report henry louis gates jr racial profiling Buzz up!1886 votes Send Email IM Share Delicious Digg Facebook Fark Newsvine Reddit StumbleUpon Technorati Yahoo! Bookmarks Print

What was the point of this post?

 

[Projekt]

Make a new thread.. ???

::WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE I FOUND IT, IT'S A COLOR CHOICE RIGHTObama 'stupidly' comment disappoints Mass. cop

,
Mass. – A white police sergeant who arrested renowned black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. said Thursday he's disappointed President Barack Obama said officers acted "stupidly," despite acknowledging he didn't know all the facts.

Sgt. James Crowley responded to Gates' home near Harvard University last week to investigate a report of a burglary and demanded Gates show him identification. Police say Gates at first refused and accused the officer of racism.

Gates was charged with disorderly conduct. The charge was dropped Tuesday, and Gates has since demanded an apology from Crowley.

Obama was asked about the arrest of Gates, who is his friend, at the end of a nationally televised news conference on health care Wednesday night.

"I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry," Obama said. "Number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home. And number three — what I think we know separate and apart from this incident — is that there is a long history in this country of African-Americans being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately, and that's just a fact."

In radio interviews Thursday morning, Crowley maintained he had done nothing wrong in arresting Gates.

"I DON'T support the president of the United States 110 percent. I think he was way off base wading into a local issue without knowing all the facts as he himself stated before he made that comment," Crowley told WBZ-AM. "I guess a friend of mine would support my position, too."

Crowley did not immediately respond to messages

Gates has said he was "outraged" by the arrest. He said the white officer walked into his home without his permission and only arrested him as the professor followed him to the porch, repeatedly demanding the sergeant's name and badge number because he was unhappy over his treatment.

"This isn't about me; this is about the vulnerability of black men in America," Gates said. . >WHY DO ALL BLACK PEOPLE WHEN IT COMES TO LAW THAT THEY ALWAYS USE THE RACE CARD CAN WE MOVE PASS THIS EVER ???

He said the incident made him realize how vulnerable poor people and minorities are "to capricious forces like a rogue policeman, and this man clearly was a rogue policeman."

Crowley, 42, said he won't apologize. And his union has expressed "full and unqualified" support for him.

On Thursday, he told WBZ that Gates verbally assailed him. The police report says Crowley asked Gates to talk outside, to which he responded "Yeah, I'll speak with your mama outside."

"There was a lot of yelling, there was references to my mother, something you woulnd't expect from anybody that should be grateful that you're there investigating a report of a crime in progress let alone a Harvard University professor," Crowley said Thursday.

Fellow officers, black and white, say he is well-liked and respected on the force. Crowley was a campus police officer at Brandeis University in July 1993 when he administered CPR trying to save the life of former Boston Celtics player Reggie Lewis. Lewis, who was black, collapsed and died during an off-season workout.

Gates' supporters maintain his arrest was a case of racial profiling which again is unture. Officers were called to the home by a woman who said she saw "two black males with backpacks" trying to break in the front door. Gates has said he arrived home from an overseas trip and the door was jammed.

The president said federal officials need to continue working with local law enforcement "to improve policing techniques so that we're eliminating potential bias."

"What I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately," Obama said. "That's just a fact." > ( no that is not that fact the fact is that black people have used this race card so long and have got away with it so long that we need to put a stop to it. All people are the same no matter what your color is .

Gov. Deval Patrick, who is black, said he was troubled and upset over the incident. Cambridge Mayor Denise Simmons, who also is black, has said she spoke with Gates and apologized on behalf of the city, and a statement from the city called the July 16 incident "regrettable and unfortunate." ( AGAIN HERE PROVES MY POINT A BLACK MAYOR WHO WASN'T THERE IS TAKING SIDES AGIAN THIS IS SO SICK FOR LAW INFORCEMENT .


Police supporters charge that Gates, director of Harvard's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research, was responsible for his own arrest by overreacting.

Black students and professors at Harvard have complained for years about racial profiling by Cambridge and campus police. Harvard commissioned an independent committee last year to examine the university's race relations after campus police confronted a young black man who was using tools to remove a bike lock, Yeah but if they didn't stop who ever it was weather black or some other color then they would say because it was owned by a black man there comment would be the police didn't care this is a lose lose position . The man worked at Harvard and owned the bike atleast he owened and it wasn't someone trying to steal it. How about some credit for the officer who was just doing his job

.

"That is part of being a police officer in a democratic society," Weinblatt said. "The point is that the police sergeant needs to be the bigger person, take the higher road, be more professional."

 

[dadofthree]

These jobs in the U.S. would likely pay between $12/hr. and $14/hr. You'd have a difficult time staffing these positions in most economies with competent, reliable High School Graduates.

I disagree. $12 and $14 / hr. would be great pay for high school grads in much of America. Especially considering the job. Unfortunately you'd be hard pressed to find competent workers with any work ethic.

In India however, at this new employer there were rougly 5000 English speaking college graduates lined up to apply for 500 open positions. Working second shift...for $400/month in a country where the average annual income is $1000/year.

They would be earning 6 times the average and you don't mention the cost and/or condition of living.

Where's the incentive to do better? How about laborers in Mexico, China, and Korea who are happy to screw lug nuts on cars all day for less than what an American laborer would expect in an hour.

D.O.T. the idea I was attempting to communicate was why we should be attempting to do better, because those of us who still have the idea that America is, and will forever remain the be all, end all global economic powerhouse it once was, or even presently is, are likely to find themselves surprised one day in the future. Without investment in continuous improvement, we'll fall behind. The Japanese (and now Koreans) have taken advantage of our arrogance and lack of innovation in the automotive industry - I don't think any rational person can objectively dispute that. That's just one of the more visible industries out there. Why are we riding Suzukis and not Harleys?

Think for a moment about how many industries you can name that America is the undisputed global leader in. There aren't many anymore. This wasn't the case thirty years ago.

It was to point out the level of education, skill, and effort that once bought us the standard of living we presently enjoy is likely not going to provide the same standard in the future as globalization continues to bring more labor to the marketplace that is willing and able to provide the same goods and services for substantially less capital.

You're right, $12-$14 hr. was high (I believe you'd still have staffing issues at that pay level) but, even at minimum wage, Americans whose primary skill is speaking English are at a competitive disadvantage.

My intent was not to communicate that we should live in substandard conditions and become a third world country. It was that we cannot get comfortable coasting along expecting the lifestyle previous generations enjoyed and helped facilitate for us without sacrificing future quality of life. Sorry for the miscommunication.

I have to agree with you on most of those points. The problem is our government up until they took the auto industry over did not subsidize our auto industry like Japan and Korea. Hard to compete. And that's not to say that those folks don't do a better job at building cars. That was brought to light several decades ago by a project to build the Ford Taurus. Don't remember the numbers but it was taking Americans four or five times the steps to build a similar vehicle. That was mainly an engineering issue. Then you have the issues with the unions.

No doubt we're coasting and it's downhill...

 

[pbghost]

What was the point of this post?

c'mon...they go together with this thread topic like deep sea diving and toaster streudles...just gotta try really hard and use your imagination