What a Wet Shot looks like.

[kingofdacoast]

Correct. NOS make 2 types of Dry Fogger nozzles that most people use. One is a 90 degree Fan spray nozzles and the other is a straight shot that sprays out of the end straight up. If you place the 90 degree fan spray nozzles too close to the velocity stacks then the 2 center cylinders will load with nitrous more the end ones. You can use 2 fan spray nozzles but the position is critical so that the sprays will not overlap,if the spray pattern overlaps then you will still have the same problem with the 2 center velocity stacks. The straight shot bounces off of the roof of the airbox lid or filter.

I agree. Most nozzle placement causes the nitrous to hit the airbox and forming "crystals" that are really bad if they get sucked down a unsuspecting cylinder. Is there a way to "filter" this like if it was being fogged through the air filter? Is there or could a nozzle be made that can fog a airbox without hitting the inside of the airbox?

 

[Gixx1300R]

I agree. Most nozzle placement causes the nitrous to hit the airbox and forming "crystals" that are really bad if they get sucked down a unsuspecting cylinder. Is there a way to "filter" this like if it was being fogged through the air filter? Is there or could a nozzle be made that can fog a airbox without hitting the inside of the airbox?

Yes it can. A Fogger nozzle that is slightly larger than the ones NOS makes. The orifice size should be a little bigger and mulitple holes set in a 180 degree pattern would do it.

 

[kingofdacoast]

Yes it can. A Fogger nozzle that is slightly larger than the ones NOS makes. The orifice size should be a little bigger and mulitple holes set in a 180 degree pattern would do it.

So if I had a fogger that can disperse nitrous into a fog that didn't bounce around inside under a low bottle pressure would this still give me a good hit and make power without spraying down all cylinders?

 

[Gixx1300R]

So if I had a fogger that can disperse nitrous into a fog that didn't bounce around inside under a low bottle pressure would this still give me a good hit and make power without spraying down all cylinders?

With fogging the airbox with dry nitrous you lose anywhere from 10-15% Nitrous power.To explain,If you fog the airbox with a 38 jet that is suppose to make 50 horsepower you really only get 45 or lower. When you fog the airbox the Nitrous isn't as dense and spraying directly into the intake ports. Nitrous is a compressable gas,the more the density the more power and long as you can match it with the correct fuel.The further away you place he nozzles (ramair tubes) the less the hit. The closer you place the fan spray nozzles then you run into the problem I stated before of the 2 middles cylinders getting sprayed first. You can saturate the Airbox with Nitrous (like my old Fogger setup in the pics above). It worked great but you will have to run a 2.5lbs bottle if you are spraying more than a 100 shot. That setup empties a bottle pretty quickly.

 

[kingofdacoast]

I got to say you have impressed me by answering my questions honestly.

 

[kingofdacoast]

What if there was a fogger made that could be put after the air filter and deliver 360 degrees of nitrous at a low bottle pressure. Sort of like the picture below of a lawn sprinkler. Would you think this would hit hard, take less nitrous and make more power if it was rotating?

 

[Gixx1300R]

They make rotating nozzles for applications like that already. Cost is what keeps it down. The best place to look at different types of nozzles and spray patterns is here BETE Spray Nozzle Supplier, Industrial Flue Gas Spray Nozzles check out the fog nozzle section

 

[kingofdacoast]

So you do agree that there is a way to fog the airbox with a small jet and amplify the output to make more than what the jet is rated for?

 

[Gixx1300R]

So you do agree that there is a way to fog the airbox with a small jet and amplify the output to make more than what the jet is rated for?

sure,if it is the correct fog nozzle in the absolute correct placement. The ones that NOS supply will not do it. There are many that still dont understand how I can use one jet and make more power than using 4 jets.

 

[kingofdacoast]

sure,if it is the correct fog nozzle in the absolute correct placement. The ones that NOS supply will not do it. There are many that still dont understand how I can use one jet and make more power than using 4 jets.

Now the last few statments you have made and answered honestly has given me a whole new look at you. You could have blown me off when you knew exactly what I was leading too. There is a dry kit made that fogs the airbox with small size jets and make more HP than what the jet would indicate. I have one installed on my 08. I posted those dyno sheets to prove that. Thank you for answering my question and I will not disrespect you anymore on this site.

Now I'm sure someone will ask for me to post pictures of this setup (toxic!) and I will not. This system was given to me not to share and I've already given away too much info as it is. I just hope he doesn't see this or its my ass.

 

[ToXSicK RoCKeT]

Good info Gixx

 

[Draco1340]

With fogging the airbox with dry nitrous you lose anywhere from 10-15% Nitrous power.To explain,If you fog the airbox with a 38 jet that is suppose to make 50 horsepower you really only get 45 or lower. When you fog the airbox the Nitrous isn't as dense and spraying directly into the intake ports. Nitrous is a compressable gas,the more the density the more power and long as you can match it with the correct fuel.The further away you place he nozzles (ramair tubes) the less the hit. The closer you place the fan spray nozzles then you run into the problem I stated before of the 2 middles cylinders getting sprayed first. You can saturate the Airbox with Nitrous (like my old Fogger setup in the pics above). It worked great but you will have to run a 2.5lbs bottle if you are spraying more than a 100 shot. That setup empties a bottle pretty quickly.

100% correct, with some more detail. Nitrous can make power in 3 different ways with 3 different effects.

1. As an ambient temperature gas, N2O is 33% Oxegen, comparred to ambient temperature air, wich is only 20 to 21% O2 depending on humidity etc. So if you fog in front of the air box and give the gas plenty of time to reach ambient temperature, the N2O is only going o give you a 12% theoretical maximum advantage in O2. Max. This is why so many "big shot" dry systems are so BS.
2. Fortunatly the N2O also goes through a phase change from liquid to gas, and in doing so drops temperature enourmously, so an effective fogger system can easily drop intake temperature from 30C to -10C. Your ECU thinks your at the north pole and richens accordingly. Amount of combustable O2 is a function of natural gas law. Lower temp = more O2.
3. With spray bars and traditional port injection pirahna systems etc., a good portion of the N20 gets to the intake valve before the phase change into gas. If you can get a portion of the gas fuel mixture into the cylinder just as its converting from liquid to gas, you aren't limited by the natural gas law. In fact you can achieve VEs OVER 100% because you have tricked the cylinder.

Reason #3 is the core reason why pound for pound, Gix1300 is correct about his spraybars making more HP than a fogger, and why car guys stick with traditional wet systems spraying right at the back of the valve. You are pushing a good percent of the O2 in before phase change, and you are not limited by the cam, or cylinder design or anything.

That being said, I actually like the softness of a fogger system. In dragracing, its all about gently and progressivly getting the power through the chassis. 100 HP hits rarely win races.

 

[Gixx1300R]

Draco

You have been holding out on us. You understand exactly what is going on

 

[Draco1340]

Thanks, but I hardly undertand all that is going on. I am the student, not the teacher.

Regardless of what method you get the O2 into the motor (fog, spraybar, injector, etc.) I would like to know how you guys get these bikes into the 7s and low 8s. The chemistry is easy, but the setup is difficult. KOC has MPH and ET that blows mine away, so at the end of the day, his opinion is important to me as well. (although I think he makes a better philosopher than engineer)

So Gixx1300, how well do these spray bars progressively ramp, or do they only work at 100%.

 

[Gixx1300R]

Thanks, but I hardly undertand all that is going on. I am the student, not the teacher.

Regardless of what method you get the O2 into the motor (fog, spraybar, injector, etc.) I would like to know how you guys get these bikes into the 7s and low 8s. The chemistry is easy, but the setup is difficult. KOC has MPH and ET that blows mine away, so at the end of the day, his opinion is important to me as well. (although I think he makes a better philosopher than engineer)

So Gixx1300, how well do these spray bars progressively ramp, or do they only work at 100%.

The Kit progresses just fine. The key to a good progressive setup is the control unit. Some cant control the ramp lower than 30% so your starting point will be 30% of what ever you horsepower setting is. Find a good controller that can start at zero. That way it doesnt upset you launch,suspension or traction.

 

[kingofdacoast]

Thanks, but I hardly undertand all that is going on. I am the student, not the teacher.

Regardless of what method you get the O2 into the motor (fog, spraybar, injector, etc.) I would like to know how you guys get these bikes into the 7s and low 8s. The chemistry is easy, but the setup is difficult. KOC has MPH and ET that blows mine away, so at the end of the day, his opinion is important to me as well. (although I think he makes a better philosopher than engineer)

So Gixx1300, how well do these spray bars progressively ramp, or do they only work at 100%.

Your are correct Draco. The only point I was making was the comment that spraybars is the only and correct way to go with injecting dry nitrous and its not. That was my original argument when I first came on here and then it got pushed out of hand by personal feelings on both of us and others that don't fully understand how everything works. I am a engineer by trade and have a degree in electrical engineering. I have taken a few mechanical engineering class's but I will admit most is self taught. I read alot. I'm trying to get some of my time slips scanned to show you them but they are so faded you can't see all the numbers when I try to copy them. I don't want you to think I'm making all this up. Remember, control is everything. A hard hit doesn't nessecery means a kit is working better than another. I agree with you that a more softer approach of applying nitrous will get you better et's regardless is some of the hp is lost. You can make more with less. Its all how its applied and how well you can fill the cylinder.

 

[ToXSicK RoCKeT]

Agree 100%, But a good n2o progressive contoler would help with that

 

[kingofdacoast]

So Tosick, since Nick knows that there is a way to fog a airbox and make more hp with a smaller jet do you think my dyno runs are BS?

 

[Cookie]

correct, I make a spraybar for every model day sport bike. Even V twins. here is a 99-07 Busa airbox

Maybe we should talk at some time to see if you could work a Busa air box up for me. Full compensation of course.

 

[Cookie]

Nick, do you still have any of those billet cam chain guides left over?? I kind of missed the last boat. ???