What Octane Do You Run?
- Thread starter Busa05_KY
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SportCommuter
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+1(CAT3 @ Feb. 23 2007,07:16) Well, this is a repost at least once since I've been active here, and last time it was about the same. 87 is what Suzi built the Busa to run on, its what its tuned for, and you really wont see any benefit from anything else IMHO. As for 92 being "cleaner" I seriously doubt it. More likely where the gas is coming from, if you use a pump thats notorious for being dirty or having water issues thats one thing. Or if your built and tuned for something requiring more/less octane than you might have issues running other than the recommended rating.
Explaination of my opinion: The Busa is a lower static compression (compared to other liter (+) bikes. The Busa has different valve timing events lowering the dynamic compression. Based off that, and the timing, the Busa is able to obtain more efficient burn of intake charge using 87octane than it will 92. The higher the octane, the slower the charge burns in general (if you doubt this, go fill your tank with 110octane race fuel and run the quarter mile compare that to the 87octane run, you will see the race gas is slower). Carbon build-up is a result of improper charge density, too slow of a burn, electrical/mechanical defect...
Now the grey area, like our brainsModify the Busa, and you may need to run more octane, like increasing the timing, leaning out the AFR, raising the compression (dynamic or static, and definately if both are raised) and lowering the compression out of its efficiency range; all of these actions require a higher octane (except lowered compression which may want lower octane, sans boost and modified dynamic compression) to keep the engine from detonating. Detonation, however slight, will lead to carbon build-up, just as much as too low/high timing (effecting how much and the charge is burnt).
There is much more to this conversation but thats should be enough for now...and I have a migraine.
Charlie
Since there was some lipsmack about "top tier" gas....
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Retailers
Gasoline retailers must meet the high TOP TIER standards with all grades of gasoline to be approved by the automakers as providing TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.
In addition, all gasoline outlets carrying the brand of the approved retailer must meet the TOP TIER standards.
Additional gasoline retailers are added to the TOP TIER list as they meet the standards. The retailers known to be on the TOP TIER list are shown below.
TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:
QuikTrip
Chevron
Conoco
Phillips
76
Shell
Entec Stations
MFA Oil Company
Kwik Trip/Kwik Star
The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Chevron-Canada
Aloha Petroleum
Tri-Par Oil Company
Shell-Canada
Texaco
Petro-Canada
Sunoco-Canada
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Retailers
Gasoline retailers must meet the high TOP TIER standards with all grades of gasoline to be approved by the automakers as providing TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.
In addition, all gasoline outlets carrying the brand of the approved retailer must meet the TOP TIER standards.
Additional gasoline retailers are added to the TOP TIER list as they meet the standards. The retailers known to be on the TOP TIER list are shown below.
TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:
QuikTrip
Chevron
Conoco
Phillips
76
Shell
Entec Stations
MFA Oil Company
Kwik Trip/Kwik Star
The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Chevron-Canada
Aloha Petroleum
Tri-Par Oil Company
Shell-Canada
Texaco
Petro-Canada
Sunoco-Canada
Seems a little difficult to find a pump that wouldn't be top tier? I know several stations not listed, are actually supplied from top tier companies, just sold thru different names. Guess its more homework for those really worried about it.
Here's my technique for maintaining a "deposit" free engine.... WOT at least twice per fill-up!
Here's my technique for maintaining a "deposit" free engine.... WOT at least twice per fill-up!
Busa05_KY
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I thought I made my misinformation clear on subsequent post but the name "premium" 93 octane and about thirty cents per gallon led me to believe it was better fuel. As I stated that is what is great about this board, guess I need to do some homework.(DaCol. @ Feb. 23 2007,21:05)So(Busa05_KY @ Feb. 23 2007,05:45) I've read that several people on this board say they run 87 octane. I personally only run 93 octane in all my bikes. I'm sure there isn't much difference, but only the best for my baby.
, explain why you think 93 is the BEST
? Now, you must base this on gasoline facts and combustion needs, OK !!!
Just wondering
Me, I use 87 as recommended since I think the guy who designed the bikes engine probably knows alot more about it than me. And I've never had any problems with 87, with absolutely NO difference in driveability when I used higher. So, how do you define BEST
I am sure glad I found this poll I was just getting ready to make this same poll. I was (Key Word Here) using 97 Octane thought it would keep the engine alot cleaner i.e. Valves and stuff like that. But now that I have read all the valuable info that the Guru's of the board put out it is 87 for me all the way with a tank of 97 every few tanks (just to make me feel good) 
.
This is why I like being a member of the board there is always something to learn about our hobby here. Thanks guys
.This is why I like being a member of the board there is always something to learn about our hobby here. Thanks guys
anyone got any 80 laying around... 
I just realized that based on that list of top tier stations there isn't a single one in my area! lol
I just realized that based on that list of top tier stations there isn't a single one in my area! lol
thugimmortal68
Registered
+1(heavybusa @ Feb. 23 2007,07:35)You are a smart dude Charlie!(CAT3 @ Feb. 23 2007,10:16) Well, this is a repost at least once since I've been active here, and last time it was about the same. 87 is what Suzi built the Busa to run on, its what its tuned for, and you really wont see any benefit from anything else IMHO. As for 92 being "cleaner" I seriously doubt it. More likely where the gas is coming from, if you use a pump thats notorious for being dirty or having water issues thats one thing. Or if your built and tuned for something requiring more/less octane than you might have issues running other than the recommended rating.
Explaination of my opinion: The Busa is a lower static compression (compared to other liter (+) bikes. The Busa has different valve timing events lowering the dynamic compression. Based off that, and the timing, the Busa is able to obtain more efficient burn of intake charge using 87octane than it will 92. The higher the octane, the slower the charge burns in general (if you doubt this, go fill your tank with 110octane race fuel and run the quarter mile compare that to the 87octane run, you will see the race gas is slower). Carbon build-up is a result of improper charge density, too slow of a burn, electrical/mechanical defect...
Now the grey area, like our brainsModify the Busa, and you may need to run more octane, like increasing the timing, leaning out the AFR, raising the compression (dynamic or static, and definately if both are raised) and lowering the compression out of its efficiency range; all of these actions require a higher octane (except lowered compression which may want lower octane, sans boost and modified dynamic compression) to keep the engine from detonating. Detonation, however slight, will lead to carbon build-up, just as much as too low/high timing (effecting how much and the charge is burnt).
There is much more to this conversation but thats should be enough for now...and I have a migraine.
Charlie
+1 on higher octane fuels INCREASING carbon build-up. This as noted is primarily due to the additives in the fuel at higher ovtane readings. Worth mentioning is the fact that fuel trucks have SEVERAL customers utilizing the same fuel batch. Only at the site are the additives and fuel custom mixed to the customers specifications. That's why in a modified motor you will sometimes notice a difference in say 97 octane from ABC Station and 97 octane from XYZ Station. Ever heard "there gas is watered down"? No. It's just a different mix and your motor doesn't like it. I have been selling carbon clean machines to fleet accounts for more than 6 years. Of course, I just might be selling you something here... but I'm not.
Have I already said 87
What do you use
So many urban legends --- about gasoline-- brand name vs independant----
I buy gas wherever it's the cheapest---when convenient...and sometimes chevron-- but it's alway's 87 octane that i buy.....in 25k miles muzzy and PCII--it alway's runs the same..........
just plain fast-- never pings--screams to redline[like yesterday] 156 with saddlebags HeHe....
BUT i would like to see the intake valves--if there grunged up-- my 900 ninja had major buildup of carbon on them....back in the day.....
I buy gas wherever it's the cheapest---when convenient...and sometimes chevron-- but it's alway's 87 octane that i buy.....in 25k miles muzzy and PCII--it alway's runs the same..........
just plain fast-- never pings--screams to redline[like yesterday] 156 with saddlebags HeHe....
BUT i would like to see the intake valves--if there grunged up-- my 900 ninja had major buildup of carbon on them....back in the day.....
I don't want to get slammed, but in a drag car...with a 632 in, 2 stage nos kit we use vp fuel c14 or c16, not sure exactly. I understand that is burns slower and more complete throught the ign firing...does this make sense.
I understand that this is a different application, c16 is what the engine builder recomends...to add another dimension, we have a data pac for drive shaft, clutch,rear gear, and egt...does anybody have experience with the latest and greatest 02 sensors? Ones that would work with leaded fuel and nos blasts? Just reaching for tuning tips from a group that applies sniffer gauges to the bike world...20 questions has begun...
I understand that this is a different application, c16 is what the engine builder recomends...to add another dimension, we have a data pac for drive shaft, clutch,rear gear, and egt...does anybody have experience with the latest and greatest 02 sensors? Ones that would work with leaded fuel and nos blasts? Just reaching for tuning tips from a group that applies sniffer gauges to the bike world...20 questions has begun...
Likely C16 in the drag car. It will run like crap in a stock Busa. It is designed for ultra high compression, big nitrous, or boosted applications. Yes it burns much slow to resist detonation in those apps.
I’m running a Bosch heated wideband O2 sensor (with logger) on my Busa. They will work with nitrous, leaded/unleaded fuel, alcohol, etc. They will not last as long with heavy doses of lead however.
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