2024 Gen3 6000miles DISASTER - Advice Needed

[jellyrug]

Every BUSA we service Oil and OEM ! Oil filter ,we fill with 3.8 L !!! Putoline R+ N-Tech SPR+ 5W-50 or N-Tech 10W/40 one step lower in cost.

Unless they use a really expensive viscosity additive package, would love to see the viscosity of that 5W50 after 500 miles.
I use a 5W40 and had to go through a number of oil sample analysis until I got a brand with decent viscosity retention. Even the 10W40's did not hold up well.

 

[c10]

Unless they use a really expensive viscosity additive package, would love to see the viscosity of that 5W50 after 500 miles.
I use a 5W40 and had to go through a number of oil sample analysis until I got a brand with decent viscosity retention. Even the 10W40's did not hold up well.

5W 40 first two samples are BMW branded Shell Advantec , next three are Shell Rotela 5W 40


A slight over fill hurts nothing , but robs a little power due to windage if filled to much . Often bikes are overfilled due to filling , starting the bike to fill filter , and adding more oil to fill line . However people do not wait long enough for all oil to drain back down to the oil pan . So you end up slightly over filled .

Also I would like to know who this person is in Houston tuning , and is well Known in the Texas mile event .
I'm in Houston area .

 

[jellyrug]

Interesting, I would normally rely on my own analysis, but as a pure experiment, I asked Elon Musk’s Grok3 AI why a Hyabusa would lose oil pressure. Not everything is relevant, but amazing what Grok came up with in a split second.

https://x.com/i/grok/share/7ht2nQquuOr4o0kNBBJhQU0Z5

 

[jellyrug]

View attachment 1697030

5W 40 first two samples are BMW branded Shell Advantec , next three are Shell Rotela 5W 40


A slight over fill hurts nothing , but robs a little power due to windage if filled to much . Often bikes are overfilled due to filling , starting the bike to fill filter , and adding more oil to fill line . However people do not wait long enough for all oil to drain back down to the oil pan . So you end up slightly over filled .

Also I would like to know who this person is in Houston tuning , and is well Known in the Texas mile event .
I'm in Houston area .

Interesting, you got a big viscosity loss at 3,106 miles. If I read that right it was with Shell Advantec? Means Rotella has a more expensive viscosity additive package than the BMW oil, which I expect costs more?

I had big viscosity losses with Agip and Mobil 1. Now stick with Silkolene, as it stays within spec.

I tried Amsoil, it actually thickened, which scared me, as that shows it being unstable with oxidation.

I change at 5,000 mile intervals, don't bother about how long the oil has been in the bike. Testing with Silkolene suggests I can go a lot further, but 5,000 miles works for me. Bike sleeps inside.

Edited for mistake.

 

[Bumblebee]

Interesting, you got a big viscosity loss at 3,106 miles. If I read that right it was with Shell Advantec? Means Rotella has a more expensive viscosity additive package than the BMW oil, which I expect costs more?

I had big viscosity losses with Agip and Mobil 1. Now stick with Silkolene, as it stays within spec.

I tried Amsoil, it actually thickened, which scared me, as that shows it being unstable with oxidation.

I change at 5,000 mile intervals, don't bother about how long the oil has been in the bike. Testing with Silkolene suggests I can go a lot further, but 5,000 miles works for me. Bike sleeps inside.

Edited for mistake.

It's funny (in an ironic way) that my brother only runs dino oil in his Beemers and changes it when he sees it needs to, not by the odometer....he has well over 650,000 miles on his '78 RT bike and the engine has never been apart and 300,000 or so miles on his '95 RT and it's engine has never been apart nor has he ever had any shifting problems with either bike.....

It could be because these bikes are low revving but he used to be part of a (global) BMW owners group and the highest mileage bike he has seen was a '60's R bike that had well over 1.5 million miles on it and has only had a set of fresh rings and a re-hone done to it....that guy only used dino oil and it has been across deserts as he traversed the globe on it a couple times....

In this group they get million mile pins to wear and the last rally I went to with him in the '90s, there were a few million mile pin wearers there.....

 

[jellyrug]

It's funny (in an ironic way) that my brother only runs dino oil in his Beemers and changes it when he sees it needs to, not by the odometer....he has well over 650,000 miles on his '78 RT bike and the engine has never been apart and 300,000 or so miles on his '95 RT and it's engine has never been apart nor has he ever had any shifting problems with either bike.....

It could be because these bikes are low revving but he used to be part of a (global) BMW owners group and the highest mileage bike he has seen was a '60's R bike that had well over 1.5 million miles on it and has only had a set of fresh rings and a re-hone done to it....that guy only used dino oil and it has been across deserts as he traversed the globe on it a couple times....

In this group they get million mile pins to wear and the last rally I went to with him in the '90s, there were a few million mile pin wearers there.....

LOL, I think some of us (me) suffer from paralysis by analysis, but my Busa is a hobby, so getting way beyond the necessary detail is just part of the fun.

From being here on the forum for years, I do recall a few Busas running Suzuki oil, with a small degree of camshaft pitting at high mileage. That is oil film breaking down, probably during cold start. If everything works the way it should on a STOCK motor, the most wear is actually from a cold start, until the oil pump pushes oil into all the places needed. In theory, we design motors to have an oil film separating all metal parts from touching each other during normal operation. So there should be zero wear.

When I worked for Mercedes, I was part of a team doing new engine development and testing. The testing is extensive and small changes can make a huge difference in reliability. Probably the reason why Busa tuners scare the crap out of me, as none of them do long term reliability testing after their modifications.

I have seen old Mercedes motors and a Tundra motor where most of the cylinder honing marks were still there after a million miles. No special lubricants were used.

When we look at dealer repair prices nowadays though, especially with German imports, it is not financially viable to drive a vehicle beyond 150,000 miles. For those working on their own vehicles, obviously a totally different situation.

 

[Unkbusa]

Ok update from the dealership today the engine is torn down and no word from Suzuki yet but somehow the main bearing spun on the crankshaft. Any experts out there to speculate on reasons?

 

[Bumblebee]

Ok update from the dealership today the engine is torn down and no word from Suzuki yet but somehow the main bearing spun on the crankshaft. Any experts out there to speculate on reasons?

With these few miles it might be a defect in manufacturing.....

Bearings do this if they get severely oil starved or if there are defects..

I only know this because I read a report on what was killing Toyota Tundra engines...it was spun main bearings....

 

[jellyrug]

Ooo

With these few miles it might be a defect in manufacturing.....

Bearings do this if they get severely oil starved or if there are defects..

I only know this because I read a report on what was killing Toyota Tundra engines...it was spun main bearings....

I stick to my suspicions:

https://x.com/i/grok/share/WTwLW9U2JrgRa3noiquSh1Tfc

 

[c10]

@jellyrug the BMW oil is my cost $ 74 usd for 4 quarts ,but normally 85 to 95 . The Rotela is $23.95 for a gallon .
My oil samples have blown myths on the BMW forums . I was hoping to be wrong and the BMW branded Shell oil would be slightly better , but it is not . I have 3 samples of a customers GS1250 also showing mirrored reports . I change the oil every 2700 to 3500 depending on road trips and millage before starting . I could go to a more expensive oil but it would still cost more than changing oil early with the Rotela

 

[sixpack577]

With these few miles it might be a defect in manufacturing.....

Bearings do this if they get severely oil starved or if there are defects..

I only know this because I read a report on what was killing Toyota Tundra engines...it was spun main bearings....

Yeah, and those spun bearings were said to have come from metal shavings in the engine, from improperly cleaned parts during assembly.
That was the last I heard on it through were I work.

 

[jellyrug]

@jellyrug the BMW oil is my cost $ 74 usd for 4 quarts ,but normally 85 to 95 . The Rotela is $23.95 for a gallon .
My oil samples have blown myths on the BMW forums . I was hoping to be wrong and the BMW branded Shell oil would be slightly better , but it is not . I have 3 samples of a customers GS1250 also showing mirrored reports . I change the oil every 2700 to 3500 depending on road trips and millage before starting . I could go to a more expensive oil but it would still cost more than changing oil early with the Rotela

You have two TBN numbers which look good, then they stopped testing that. Based on the two, you could probably double your mileage.

 

[c10]

You have two TBN numbers which look good, then they stopped testing that. Based on the two, you could probably double your mileage.

TBN is a extra fee . I don't do it now . and they said 5000 miles . Still changing by mid 3 k as shifts are better with the lower millage oil .

 

[jellyrug]

TBN is an extra fee . I don't do it now . and they said 5000 miles . Still changing by mid 3 k as shifts are better with the lower millage oil .

Peace of mind.

 

[Red05]

Ok update from the dealership today the engine is torn down and no word from Suzuki yet but somehow the main bearing spun on the crankshaft. Any experts out there to speculate on reasons?

Not an expert but any wet sump engine overfilled to the point where the crankshaft whips up the oil, the oil pick up will start sucking aerated oil which is a big problem. Not saying that’s what happened but it’s a possibility.

 

[sixpack577]

Not an expert but any wet sump engine overfilled to the point where the crankshaft whips up the oil, the oil pick up will start sucking aerated oil which is a big problem. Not saying that’s what happened but it’s a possibility.

That is a fair point.
Next time I change oil in one of the Gsxr1k's, I think I'll use some of the half bottles and leftovers of various oil that I have.
I won't start it, but I want to see how much I can get in there before it overflows out of the clutch cover fill hole.
And the Busa should take more with a bigger crankcase to fill up.
Maybe 5 quarts?

 

[Bumblebee]

That is a fair point.
Next time I change oil in one of the Gsxr1k's, I think I'll use some of the half bottles and leftovers of various oil that I have.
I won't start it, but I want to see how much I can get in there before it overflows out of the clutch cover fill hole.
And the Busa should take more with a bigger crankcase to fill up.
Maybe 5 quarts?

Back in the day when I was deployed a lot and didn't ride some of my bikes for over a year, I'd fill the oil up to the filler hole so the clutch would be completely immersed and not have half of it sitting dry......as I had a few different bikes, I can't remember the amount it took for each bike.

I'd put all kinds of warning labels in zip lock bags so the bike wouldn't be started with that oil in it.....just in case something happened to me....

This isn't really relative to this conversation but it made me remember doing this.

 

[sixpack577]

Back in the day when I was deployed a lot and didn't ride some of my bikes for over a year, I'd fill the oil up to the filler hole so the clutch would be completely immersed and not have half of it sitting dry......as I had a few different bikes, I can't remember the amount it took for each bike.

I'd put all kinds of warning labels in zip lock bags so the bike wouldn't be started with that oil in it.....just in case something happened to me....

This isn't really relative to this conversation but it made me remember doing this.

That's a good idea for bikes that sit

 

[Unkbusa]

Not an expert but any wet sump engine overfilled to the point where the crankshaft whips up the oil, the oil pick up will start sucking aerated oil which is a big problem. Not saying that’s what happened but it’s a possibility.

thats exactly what I thougth was the issue but the dealership is controlling the narrative saying there was no oil blow by on the air filter

 

[Red05]

thats exactly what I thougth was the issue but the dealership is controlling the narrative saying there was no oil blow by on the air filter

Not specific to the Hayabusa, but depending on the crankcase ventilation system, lack of oil deposits in the air cleaner is not proof that foaming didn’t occur.
Good luck hope the dealer or Suzuki steps up for you.