2024 LE at Moore Mafias

Dude , both my now ex Busa and the ZX14R were 230kg full tank ready to ride . My Gen 2 Busa was great to ride , pretty sure you would have a lot of trouble running with it on your Gen 3 , but also same with the ZX14R . It is what it is , both my machines featured similar upgrades and full weight loss while still streetable . They both handled well for a big bikes . If you were really serious , about great handling , well you would invest in say , a GSXR 1K , and setup suspension and be never seen in the twisties by any hyper bike because it will handle so good compared .
You're kind of proving my point for me. "They handled well for big bikes, but for great handling get a liter bike."

OR, get something in the middle, what I call the sweet spot. A 507lb ZX14R sounds amazing, if that's really possible.
 
You're kind of proving my point for me. "They handled well for big bikes, but for great handling get a liter bike."

OR, get something in the middle, what I call the sweet spot. A 507lb ZX14R sounds amazing, if that's really possible.
I do not need to bullchit u mate , that ZX14R features every trick in the book for weight loss , while still being street legal in South Aus , it even runs ceramic rear rotor and cera carbon sprockets , all the effort to get it done ... But to have a Gen 3 owner with 1st wheel purchase and adjustable links question this , is more than a little funny .
 
My instinct is to quibble, but essentially you're right. Your objections to the Hayabusa are only 1/10 of my objections to the 'new' 2020 Katana. Because I actually owned and loved my GS1000SZ. Talk about a head turner, that thing snapped necks wherever I took it! That UJM abortion wasn't worthy of the name or logo, not remotely.

You also have to define dominate. Because my gen 3 turns heads in a way I don't think any Kawasaki does. I had more camera lenses turned towards my bike riding around Monterey during car week than I can count. I'd basically rate it even with my original Hans Muth Katana with the Kerker chrome megaphone exhaust. And I like just looking at it about equally as well.

I took my neighbor's new 911 out for a spin and the overwhelming impression was one word: sorted. The whole driving experience was so flawless it was hard to describe. To a lesser extent but still similar is my reaction to the Gen 3. The industry has figured out most of this stuff. The gobsmacking leapfrogging of performance is, I agree, in the rear view mirror. But it's nice to know the turbo guys have your back if you have the cash. Stock wheelbase world record in the quarter mile is back with Hayabusa baby, so we still have some Laurels to keep us warm.
I never said the Gen 3 isn't a good looking bike....because it certainly is that....

I did say it (and it's predecessors) haven't and don't dominate in performance...this is what the Hayabusa was designed and built for, not appearance, (that came out of a wind tunnel....). The bike was never a back road twisty leader but it could kind of keep up in the twisties and then stomp the liter bikes on the straights......they'd catch up going into the twisties again and the process was repeated...but if the road opened up, the Hayabusa would pull off into the sunset........not anymore....

Suzuki had a real opportunity to do something radical with the Gen 3 but chose the safe and easy route...I figure if they were able to go in and completely modify the 1340 engine, they could have easily punched it out without increasing the cost to purchasers by a huge margin.

As it sits there are very few people (including yourself) who buy the Gen 3 and like it the way it came off the showroom floor...I would say there are very few if any that haven't been modified for either performance or comfort...

This tells me that Suzuki has missed the mark.
 
I never said the Gen 3 isn't a good looking bike....because it certainly is that....

I did say it (and it's predecessors) haven't and don't dominate in performance...this is what the Hayabusa was designed and built for, not appearance, (that came out of a wind tunnel....). The bike was never a back road twisty leader but it could kind of keep up in the twisties and then stomp the liter bikes on the straights......they'd catch up going into the twisties again and the process was repeated...but if the road opened up, the Hayabusa would pull off into the sunset........not anymore....

Suzuki had a real opportunity to do something radical with the Gen 3 but chose the safe and easy route...I figure if they were able to go in and completely modify the 1340 engine, they could have easily punched it out without increasing the cost to purchasers by a huge margin.

As it sits there are very few people (including yourself) who buy the Gen 3 and like it the way it came off the showroom floor...I would say there are very few if any that haven't been modified for either performance or comfort...

This tells me that Suzuki has missed the mark.
Sell your Busa, go green.
 
1st wheel purchase and adjustable links question this , is more than a little funny .
Not sure what you're referring to. I've owned five bikes, two of them (the Suzukis) in the Guggenheim art of the motorcycle show, and my raising links are billet.
You feel like giving us a budget for your 507 lb ZX-14? Because I'm guessing it wasn't all that cheap. So my argument about the Hayabusa being better at the track or in the twisties holds, discounting extreme outliers like your machine. Pretty sure a stock ZX14 in California would be over 600 lbs. I wouldn't want to take one of those through the corkscrew in the rain at Laguna Seca, but I managed fine on my gen 1. It was after all, again, a GSXR.
The real laugh riot would be anybody comparing anything by Kawasaki to the hyperbusa, if you want to shift the conversation to high budget street legal bikes. That crown is going to be hard to knock off.
 
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I never said the Gen 3 isn't a good looking bike....because it certainly is that....

I did say it (and it's predecessors) haven't and don't dominate in performance...this is what the Hayabusa was designed and built for, not appearance, (that came out of a wind tunnel....). The bike was never a back road twisty leader but it could kind of keep up in the twisties and then stomp the liter bikes on the straights......they'd catch up going into the twisties again and the process was repeated...but if the road opened up, the Hayabusa would pull off into the sunset........not anymore....

Suzuki had a real opportunity to do something radical with the Gen 3 but chose the safe and easy route...I figure if they were able to go in and completely modify the 1340 engine, they could have easily punched it out without increasing the cost to purchasers by a huge margin.

As it sits there are very few people (including yourself) who buy the Gen 3 and like it the way it came off the showroom floor...I would say there are very few if any that haven't been modified for either performance or comfort...

This tells me that Suzuki has missed the mark.
Yeah I'm going to largely agree with you, except for the fact that the technology is too mature, and emissions controls are the real villain of the story. It's not my impression they could have satisfied you and kept the cost reasonable or let's say within my budget. So I'm not complaining. As I wouldn't trade my tweaked gen 3 for any other bike on the planet, I consider it a win.
 
Yeah I'm going to largely agree with you, except for the fact that the technology is too mature, and emissions controls are the real villain of the story. It's not my impression they could have satisfied you and kept the cost reasonable or let's say within my budget. So I'm not complaining. As I wouldn't trade my tweaked gen 3 for any other bike on the planet, I consider it a win.
I agree,

I don't think the market is strong enough for them to have spent the time and effort in trying to keep the bike affordable to the masses.

A Gen 3 here is $25k and not selling as it is....if it was over $30k they may have had to discontinue it altogether....

I kind of looked at in the beginning as at least we got a Gen 3 instead of the bike disappearing like the hyperbike segment did.
 
Bro , going to argue you got it wrong about the ZX14R standard handling , it will at least match any Gen Hayabusa , and tweaked , it will be a real race with anyone riding a Busa . Some people prefer the Busa Gen s handling over the ZX14R , but the flip side also applies . I like the way both handle , but I am still riding ZX14R .
"standard"...
 
I do not need to bullchit u mate , that ZX14R features every trick in the book for weight loss , while still being street legal in South Aus , it even runs ceramic rear rotor and cera carbon sprockets , all the effort to get it done ... But to have a Gen 3 owner with 1st wheel purchase and adjustable links question this , is more than a little funny .
I'm curious, have you used raising links? If so, how much higher is your license plate, and how did it change the feel of the bike? I'm just assuming all that weight loss was for apexes but maybe that's not the case.
 
...we were talking about valve adjustments/shim changes
So you still maintain that top frame over the engine cover is easier to work on than the Suzuki wraparound frame? Your picture had everything on top of and in front of the engine stripped off. You're just contradicting the gripes I've heard from Kawasaki guys so I'm not clear on it.
 
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So you still maintain that top frame over the engine cover is easier to work on than the Suzuki wraparound frame? Your picture had everything on top of and in front of the engine stripped off. You're just contradicting the gripes I've heard from Kawasaki guys so I'm not clear on it.

Yes
FULL DISCLOSURE
I traded a 4wheeler(Yamaha 700 Raptor) for that Concours, kept it 6 months and put 1k miles on it, it just wasn't for me, so I traded it.
Now, when I first got it, it had an oil stain, from a very common o-ring leak, and there are lots of online complaints about it.
I wanted to check the valves anyway, as they were almost due, and again, nothing but complaints posted online.
I check used bikes over pretty throurouhly when I get them, and as I work on and ride alot of bikes, the more bikes I know how to work on, the better off I am.
On to the valve check.
The Concours, although done just the Same as the zx11, 12, 14, and most any shim and bucket sportbike engine, has alot more fairings and trim on it, as you can clearly see when you look at the bike.
So, it's not unreasonable that it takes a little while to get all of the trim off.
It turns out the o-ring had already been replaced, which was good, so off with the valve cover.
The reason there is no radiator or exhaust in my picture is because I also put on a full exhaust, and removed the radiator to clean the leaked oil off of it's exterior.
I just posted that pic to show how wide open the sides of the engine are, and that there is Plenty of room above the valve cover(so I apologize for that confusion).
Now, with the valve cover off, it's all the same. Find the access plug on an engine cover, to put a socket and ratchet on a crank bolt, to manually rotate the engine(removing the spark plugs makes this much easier), and there is usually 2 to 4 positions for the crank and cams to be in(engine dependent), and you will be able to check valve clearance on different valves at the different cam positions.
In the correct position, put a feeler guage between the cam lobe and shim bucket.
If it's in spec, great, move on to the next, if they're all good, then put it all back together and you're done.
But, if the spec is out, you have to put in a thinner or a thicker shim.
To do that, you need to remove the cam chain tensioner, and it is a good idea to ziptie the cam gears to the chain whenever possible, as it will help to keep the engine timing correct.
Now, unbolt the cam journals, so you can lift the cam enough to remove the shim bucket, and the shim, which sits directly on top of the valve stem(and commonly sticks to the inside of the shim bucket, lol). Replace the shim, reassemble, recheck the gap, and assuming all valves are back in spec, now it just needs timed.
Here's where it gets fun, when you have frame rails directly on each side of the cylinder head, getting your hands in there, and being able to physically see cam alignment can be difficult.
It is very doable, people do it every day, I've done many...and it can still be a pain trying to get back together.
Now, look at the Kawaski design.
Yep...Nothing is on the sides of the engine, and there's lots of room above it, it is so easy to get to.
Some engines, like the 1400, have Variable Valve Timing, which is just a mechanism with springs and weights inside, and on the end of the camshaft...pay it no mind if it's ok, as it's not in the way.
Back when I first got this bike, and when I first looked at it, I had read the horror stories, and thought 'wonderful' sarcastically.
Once I got in there, I found the real problem.
These complaints are all voiced by people with little to no experience, and even if they are mechanically inclined, obviously have never worked on bikes before.
The Concours in general is a pain just because of all the layers of fairings...which the sportbikes obviously don't have.
So YES, that Kawasaki design is easier to adjust the valves on.
 
Not sure what you're referring to. I've owned five bikes, two of them (the Suzukis) in the Guggenheim art of the motorcycle show, and my raising links are billet.
You feel like giving us a budget for your 507 lb ZX-14? Because I'm guessing it wasn't all that cheap. So my argument about the Hayabusa being better at the track or in the twisties holds, discounting extreme outliers like your machine. Pretty sure a stock ZX14 in California would be over 600 lbs. I wouldn't want to take one of those through the corkscrew in the rain at Laguna Seca, but I managed fine on my gen 1. It was after all, again, a GSXR.
The real laugh riot would be anybody comparing anything by Kawasaki to the hyperbusa, if you want to shift the conversation to high budget street legal bikes. That crown is going to be hard to knock off.
Dude , u said no ZX14R is ever going to handle better than a Hayabusa , even if it was modified , your words remember , not mine . So I said u are wrong , and present both a Gen 2 Hayabusa and a ZX14R , that I put together as specials , with very similar mods , that I owned together for some years . So , I know the handling of both pretty well , and stated that the ZX14R handled better imo . Both bikes were built with no budget to speak of , just what I wanted to fit . The Busa was built over a ten year span , but the ZX14R was put together in less time , and was held back even , because of how aftermarket parts for the ZX4R are only now close to matching the Busa .
Yes , the Superbusa is very special , but it is at least double the $ spent on my ZX14R or Ex Busa . That machine is the ultimate Busa street bike for sure and features excellent components . I might of even owned one myself , but chose to do another Kawasaki project , maybe similar $ to a Superbusa ? . Maybe , some Aussie Superbusa owner and myself will get together some day and compare our bikes and enjoy some positive bike conversation , u never know ...
But mate , your sweet spot super handling 600 Hayabusa Gen 3 , is at the very beginning of what you need to get it to really handle , where we all start by jackin the rear , add a 55 series profile tire , score the best lightest exhaust possible , wheels , then better fork internals at least and best rear shock , , and brake caliper update if needed . Look for the best and lightest components , and add .
You had bikes featured at where ?
I be watching out for ur sweet spots updates , be sure to share wont ya ....
 
.
The reason there is no radiator or exhaust in my picture is because I also put on a full exhaust, and removed the radiator to clean the leaked oil off of it's exterior.
I just posted that pic to show how wide open the sides of the engine are, and that there is Plenty of room above the valve cover(so I apologize for that confusion).
Now, with the valve cover off, it's all the same. ...
So YES, that Kawasaki design is easier to adjust the valves on.
I'm sorry but your argument seems based on having already pulled the radiator and headers and a ton of other crap.
Let's rephrase. Two bikes in road ready trim. Time with a stopwatch how long to simply get the valve cover off? Because when you say there's a ton of room above the valve cover, that's the opposite of what I've heard. It's really hard to imagine the Kawasaki having the shortest time.
 
Dude , u said no ZX14R is ever going to handle better than a Hayabusa , even if it was modified , your words remember , not mine . So I said u are wrong , and present both a Gen 2 Hayabusa and a ZX14R , that I put together as specials , with very similar mods , that I owned together for some years . So , I know the handling of both pretty well , and stated that the ZX14R handled better imo . Both bikes were built with no budget to speak of , just what I wanted to fit . The Busa was built over a ten year span , but the ZX14R was put together in less time , and was held back even , because of how aftermarket parts for the ZX4R are only now close to matching the Busa .
Yes , the Superbusa is very special , but it is at least double the $ spent on my ZX14R or Ex Busa . That machine is the ultimate Busa street bike for sure and features excellent components . I might of even owned one myself , but chose to do another Kawasaki project , maybe similar $ to a Superbusa ? . Maybe , some Aussie Superbusa owner and myself will get together some day and compare our bikes and enjoy some positive bike conversation , u never know ...
But mate , your sweet spot super handling 600 Hayabusa Gen 3 , is at the very beginning of what you need to get it to really handle , where we all start by jackin the rear , add a 55 series profile tire , score the best lightest exhaust possible , wheels , then better fork internals at least and best rear shock , , and brake caliper update if needed . Look for the best and lightest components , and add .
You had bikes featured at where ?
I be watching out for ur sweet spots updates , be sure to share wont ya ....
I will absolutely concede that I had no idea you could get a ZX14R down to 507 lbs. I would have lost that bet. On the flip side, this being a motorcycle forum, the claim doesn't really hold water until we see pics. I'm not doubting you, I'm just bringing up the general rules. You seem to imply that you did raise yours. I was surprised that the wheelbase was the same on both bikes, and I'm curious whether you compared the rake and trail on the 14. I would guess both bikes need to be pretty similar there.
My bike is topped out in terms of my budget. I'm still kicking myself for getting those carbon rims, but on the other hand I love them so much I'm really not. The current performance matches nicely with my max speed on public roads. It genuinely is the perfect combination of potent agility for me, and while I will be taking it long distance I'm not even sure I'm going to track it. Maybe once, but it's kind of weird that after a few years without a bike, when I got the Gen 3 I should have been rusty and should have needed a track day to recalibrate. But on the contrary all the muscle memory seems to be working better than ever and I find myself surprisingly fast and smooth. *Or maybe I am honestly older and slower and in semi-denial about it. I never had a track bike and am a little sad about it.
I'm also under the impression that the 14 engine revs more freely than the Busa. And that it's kind of like adding the Brocks pipe, ie the freer the air flows the more you swing the power band to the right. Which is good for max power. But that sooner power feeling which I love may get a little sacrificed, ie the torque curve is not as strong down low. That's probably perfectly compensated by the 14's extra hundred cc. Does that sound right to you?
Tell us more about your flyweight 14 and how it handles. Have you ridden it at Phillips Island? That's a track I would love to try someday. *Never mind, I see the extended swing arm now. **Wait, if that aftermarket swing arm is indeed extended, that sort of torpedoes your argument about handling. But I will concede that there may be some flyweight ZX-14R track bike out there that could beat mine in a race track lap time. But again, such a bike would be a serious minority outlier.
What I really need from Australia is for these guys to come to California:
Wheelie Machine North America | We are coming to USA & Canada!
I was a deprived child and never had a dirt bike as a kid. The Busa is a big machine to learn to balance wheelie on and I am a little thin on the discipline to practice for hours and hours, and of course a little scared to dump the bike. I did Wheelie University in San Diego and it helped a lot (I highly recommend). I'm so close to ripping big seated power wheelies on the bike but the fear factor is holding me back. I think their machine would get me over the hump, (literally).

Learn To Wheelie A Motorcycle | Wheelie University | United States
 
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I will absolutely concede that I had no idea you could get a ZX14R down to 507 lbs. I would have lost that bet. On the flip side, this being a motorcycle forum, the claim doesn't really hold water until we see pics. I'm not doubting you, I'm just bringing up the general rules. You seem to imply that you did raise yours. I was surprised that the wheelbase was the same on both bikes, and I'm curious whether you compared the rake and trail on the 14. I would guess both bikes need to be pretty similar there.
My bike is topped out in terms of my budget. I'm still kicking myself for getting those carbon rims, but on the other hand I love them so much I'm really not. The current performance matches nicely with my max speed on public roads. It genuinely is the perfect combination of potent agility for me, and while I will be taking it long distance I'm not even sure I'm going to track it. Maybe once, but it's kind of weird that after a few years without a bike, when I got the Gen 3 I should have been rusty and should have needed a track day to recalibrate. But on the contrary all the muscle memory seems to be working better than ever and I find myself surprisingly fast and smooth. *Or maybe I am honestly older and slower and in semi-denial about it. I never had a track bike and am a little sad about it.
I'm also under the impression that the 14 engine revs more freely than the Busa. And that it's kind of like adding the Brocks pipe, ie the freer the air flows the more you swing the power band to the right. Which is good for max power. But that sooner power feeling which I love may get a little sacrificed, ie the torque curve is not as strong down low. That's probably perfectly compensated by the 14's extra hundred cc. Does that sound right to you?
Tell us more about your flyweight 14 and how it handles. Have you ridden it at Phillips Island? That's a track I would love to try someday.
What I really need from Australia is for these guys to come to California:
Wheelie Machine North America | We are coming to USA & Canada!
I was a deprived child and never had a dirt bike as a kid. The Busa is a big machine to learn to balance wheelie on and I am a little thin on the discipline to practice for hours and hours, and of course a little scared to dump the bike. I did Wheelie University in San Diego and it helped a lot (I highly recommend). I'm so close to ripping big seated power wheelies on the bike but the fear factor is holding me back. I think their machine would get me over the hump, (literally).

Learn To Wheelie A Motorcycle | Wheelie University | United States
You can look at roadtoads new ride ,(starts at page 24 for the KTM ), to see where I got all my bikes weighed at this fully verified weigh station , with + or minus 5kg per ton / 1000kg . Verified , so you pay for services , and I guess you have to trust my word that all had topped off full tanks for weigh in and each ridden there . The lads signed off on checking for us , it was a well known station to take bikes too in Adelaide metro .
I had both bikes Woolich tuned , the Busa was running 18t / 47t gearing , the ZX14R standard . They both were stock motor internal , fitted same CT Meg light weight pipes , updated hd clutch springs and the Busa the centre ring . The 14 feels turbine smooth , not old school motor feel of the Busa , so it does feel less low end . But my Busa short gearing , ( thanks to @sixpack577 , who is also THE wheelie king ) , makes this feel even more so . The ZX14R was setup a lot like More Mafia 2020 super stock ZX14R motor /tune , stock , except pipe , filter , short wheelbase , ecu woolich tune , my thing also runs unleaded 98 pump gas . That bike of MM , has runs best 8.7 1/4 stock , it would smoke even Superbusa , amazing .
I did ride the Busa around Hidden Valley Raceway NT , 4 of us hired the track for 4 days to our selves , but honestly , I rode slow and safe to get bike back home intact .. as well as myself lol .
 
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