Afghanistan....
- Thread starter Bumblebee
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Tb3
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Anything he's says is definitely "interesting". May not be a ounce of truth to it... but...apperantly none of this is happening...according to him
TikTok - Make Your Day
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Tb3
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And while we're at it let's keep our southern border wide open and allow them to walk on in and give them money and Healthcare and make the Americans they hate pay for it. Supposedly 81 million or so people voted for this child sniffing/touching racist loser. We need Trump back, in a bad way
TallTom
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Yeah this looked nothing like Saigon! :sarcasm:
michael parris heuberger
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It wouldn't have mattered which governmental body was in power during this period, nobody foresaw the ANA collapsing in the record time in which they did and the Taliban seizing the entre country so quickly.
The plan to leave Afghanistan was put in place during the last administration and then executed by the current administration....
Panic is the name of this ball-game....sadly with panic comes death...
The plan to leave Afghanistan was put in place during the last administration and then executed by the current administration....
Panic is the name of this ball-game....sadly with panic comes death...
No, they are airborne infantry, and not part of SOF.
michael parris heuberger
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Hi. I am sure that the Democrats will find a way to pin it on Trump. As it appears the Democrats due no wrong.
wOW...That guy pulls no punches at all . . .
He's angry, might have lost someone to that war.
He certainly hit the nail on the head . .
The war plans are long term . .for sure.
Biden's just the guy that's been tasked with orders from 'on-high'.
Can't blame him.
Orrrrrr. . . . can you?
michael parris heuberger
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I believe it can be blamed on 20 years of extremely poor Afghan leadership, which the US shared. We were clearly out of touch with real conditions prevailing within the forces.
Not getting paid for months on end.
Corruption at a high level, at a lower level soldiers would trade their weapons with the Taliban for food.
Multiple desertions.
See linky below
Why didn't they fight? Speed of Afghan collapse surprised even the Taliban
The Taliban's rapid takeover of Afghanistan was the result of not only their strength on the battlefield and a strategy that began in the rural provinces but of a collapse of morale among an underserved…
www.france24.com
While this situation in Afghanistan is bad, I don't know what could have been done. The withdrawal was planned and everyone knew about it for almost a year, if not longer. What threw this situation into chaos was the capitulation by the ANA and the disappearing act pulled by the government. We were counting on the ANA providing a safe zone to evacuate the country and to maybe regain control of the country with assistance. Now, who would the US work with to provide assistance? Imagine if George Washington disappeared out of the country overnight and the militias dropped their weapons and ran?
The only way to do this given the current realities on the ground would be to put 150-200K troops in there and basically take over the country, directly battle the Taliban, kill a lot of civilians, and basically determine the outcome of a civil war in another country. And even if we did that there is no government on our side anymore - we would basically be at square one after 20 years.
What has turned this from a bad situation to a media frenzy of negative images was the panicking of the Afghan west-sympathizers. Now the US has to do crowd control at the airport and those images are going to be negative too. If there was some level of order at the airport, we could get planes in there moving every 5-10 minutes around the clock. There is just no way to board the plans safely as a mob.
So there was no good way to do this. 75% of the people here in the US wanted out of that mess. How would it go over to sink another trillion dollars in there and 3-4K more soldier's lives. Unfortunately, more troops are going to be needed to set a perimeter that gives the planes room to get above the ground fire. I bet right now the administration is trying to get the Taliban to allow whoever wants to leave safe passage to a clearing station. Finally, we are no doubt frantically trying to find countries willing to take this many refugees in the middle of a COVID pandemic.
What a mess. Still, the best option for us is for Biden to take the political hit and end this now. There is going to be a lot of Monday-morning quarterbacking but this was not going to end well no matter what we did. It does piss me off that the Afghans are saying we deserted them after we have spent 20 years and a Trillion bucks trying to get them in a position to help themselves - the Taliban took their country in a week with almost no resistance. They aren't saying US help us they are saying US do this for us.
The only way to do this given the current realities on the ground would be to put 150-200K troops in there and basically take over the country, directly battle the Taliban, kill a lot of civilians, and basically determine the outcome of a civil war in another country. And even if we did that there is no government on our side anymore - we would basically be at square one after 20 years.
What has turned this from a bad situation to a media frenzy of negative images was the panicking of the Afghan west-sympathizers. Now the US has to do crowd control at the airport and those images are going to be negative too. If there was some level of order at the airport, we could get planes in there moving every 5-10 minutes around the clock. There is just no way to board the plans safely as a mob.
So there was no good way to do this. 75% of the people here in the US wanted out of that mess. How would it go over to sink another trillion dollars in there and 3-4K more soldier's lives. Unfortunately, more troops are going to be needed to set a perimeter that gives the planes room to get above the ground fire. I bet right now the administration is trying to get the Taliban to allow whoever wants to leave safe passage to a clearing station. Finally, we are no doubt frantically trying to find countries willing to take this many refugees in the middle of a COVID pandemic.
What a mess. Still, the best option for us is for Biden to take the political hit and end this now. There is going to be a lot of Monday-morning quarterbacking but this was not going to end well no matter what we did. It does piss me off that the Afghans are saying we deserted them after we have spent 20 years and a Trillion bucks trying to get them in a position to help themselves - the Taliban took their country in a week with almost no resistance. They aren't saying US help us they are saying US do this for us.
Well, I won't divert into those issues you bring up but I agree it's difficult to place that many people coming in with nothing. No jobs, etc. And more importantly, anyone could be in the group as I'm sure the screening is lax if not nonexistent. There is probably little or no medical screening either.
JeffSyh
Registered
@fallenarch by the sounds of it the orginal pull out plan that trump and his team laid out was scrapped and biden kicked everyone out and made the decision between him and Kamala Harris as almost all intelligent agencies told him not to pull out that way. But who knows I always didnt believe in Afghan simply to the fact their population isnt developed or intelligent enough or cared enough of their own independence to garner the support the world gave them...
The Taliban are hard working warriors/fighters/terrorists the Afghan people seem well you know... please don't kill me take everything (though they had more troops and weaponry I personally would have fought till my last breath for my countries, my kids and women's freedoms) Maybe I'm biased and closed minded but that's what it feels like to me.
The Taliban are hard working warriors/fighters/terrorists the Afghan people seem well you know... please don't kill me take everything (though they had more troops and weaponry I personally would have fought till my last breath for my countries, my kids and women's freedoms) Maybe I'm biased and closed minded but that's what it feels like to me.
^^^^^
By choosing to support those who are more adept towards Western values, over a group who believe in strict ancient Islam is probably not a good idea in an Islam country. This was a mess from the start, 20 years ago and it will remain a mess as long as we keep interfering. If the Trump plan was followed towards a coordinated withdrawal, my guess is all our troops would have been there a few more years, if not forever.
How would a coordinated withdrawal have worked?
Power sharing with the government and the Taliban was not an option.
The government would not have agreed to a peaceful hand-over and they clearly mismanaged their military.
Negotiating with the Taliban to follow Western methods of fair elections were out of the question. The only thing they wanted was to take over power. They cannot be trusted.
The government did not have the support of the military to defend themselves.
So, before we blame anyone, who is smart enough to write a recipe of how a proper orderly peaceful solution could have been reached to withdraw US military?
By choosing to support those who are more adept towards Western values, over a group who believe in strict ancient Islam is probably not a good idea in an Islam country. This was a mess from the start, 20 years ago and it will remain a mess as long as we keep interfering. If the Trump plan was followed towards a coordinated withdrawal, my guess is all our troops would have been there a few more years, if not forever.
How would a coordinated withdrawal have worked?
Power sharing with the government and the Taliban was not an option.
The government would not have agreed to a peaceful hand-over and they clearly mismanaged their military.
Negotiating with the Taliban to follow Western methods of fair elections were out of the question. The only thing they wanted was to take over power. They cannot be trusted.
The government did not have the support of the military to defend themselves.
So, before we blame anyone, who is smart enough to write a recipe of how a proper orderly peaceful solution could have been reached to withdraw US military?
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