Afghanistan....

[mark3evo]

Just read today’s paper

the odds should be stacked against the Taliban
Taliban fighters 75,000 with AK47
Afghan/ police 350,000 with US supplied M16 carbines
( these will be in the hands of the Taliban after 9/11 2021)

clearly Taliban ideology is better than NATO trained

newspaper headlines US next Saigon
Race to get out the officials

i also read the leader of Taliban is in hiding in Quetta Pakistan - thought Pakistan were allies of US and Nato
answer obviously NOT

 

[fallenarch]

I noticed the media is running the same old fighting videos because there has been very little fighting. I bet the Taliban has more like 250 people because the Afghans are defecting in droves.

 

[TallTom]

Just read today’s paper

the odds should be stacked against the Taliban
Taliban fighters 75,000 with AK47
Afghan/ police 350,000 with US supplied M16 carbines
( these will be in the hands of the Taliban after 9/11 2021)

clearly Taliban ideology is better than NATO trained

newspaper headlines US next Saigon
Race to get out the officials

i also read the leader of Taliban is in hiding in Quetta Pakistan - thought Pakistan were allies of US and Nato
answer obviously NOT

View attachment 1639484

I wonder if Biden will apologize for the abandoning the untold numbers of people about to be slaughtered or sold off into slavery by the Taliban.

 

[mark3evo]

I wonder if Biden will apologize for the abandoning the untold numbers of people about to be slaughtered or sold off into slavery by the Taliban.

Trump started this wanted to be out by May 1st
-seems Trump and Biden both want out both equally guilty

once US pulled the plug.... us the UK minnows had pull out as well

 

[TallTom]

Trump started this wanted to be out by May 1st
-seems Trump and Biden both want out both equally guilty

once US pulled the plug.... us the UK minnows had pull out as well

Trump began the process. Saw that there was reason to not simply walk away. The Taliban weren't taking back the country with the resources that were still in place.

 

[mark3evo]

Trump began the process. Saw that there was reason to not simply walk away. The Taliban weren't taking back the country with the resources that were still in place.

true enough but as Taliban say " you have watches, we have time"
at some point this would have happened, ANA simply aren't up to maintaining some kind of order without US involvement

 

[fallenarch]

I don't get how we are "walking away" after 20 years and trillions of dollars? Remember that there were peace talks with the Taliban and an agreement reached, so this wasn't a surprise to anyone. If there is a surprise it's to the Afghans, who thought they could get us to pay for their security forever by just playing dumb. A lot of those guys who were "untrainable" are running around now as fierce warriors with the Talibon.

As is always the case in war, the innocent and defenseless bear the brunt of the atrocities. But we are at the point where all we can do is lose good young men and women and pour money down a pit. Morally it is a shame, but logically leaving is the only call. How can we argue over spending a trillion investing in our own infrastructure and just scatter trillions to the wind in Afganistan?

Will this have lasting and in many cases unforeseen consequences, probably. But it's also possible that this will quiet things down. Only time will tell...

 

[fallenarch]

BTW: The USSR had the "we can't admit failure mentality" and they poured money into Afghanistan until it literally dragged them under. One good lesson we should have learned from the USSR is that we should have never gone in there. But the other one is we need to get out.

 

[jellyrug]

these

I wonder if Biden will apologize for the abandoning the untold numbers of people about to be slaughtered or sold off into slavery by the Taliban.

While he as well as all his advisors sure misjudged and misspoke regarding how fast the Taliban will take over, what other solution would you have proposed?

The simple fact that there is little resistance to what the Taliban are doing, shows that there is not much support for the current regime, which we trained and supported at great expense.

It is the question of how to try and prevent extreme human suffering in a foreign land. First decide if it is even worth the effort to interfere. Second, if we decide to go in towards creating stability, who do we work with? The loser or the winner. If we work with the loser, it is simply a matter of the winner taking over once we are done. If we work with the Taliban, that really is the only opportunity available towards changing their behavior for a future place in something other than a third world. Trump was a moron, but at least he knew this as the only available opportunity. Some are now blaming him for what is happening now.

In short, really the only solution is to allow Afghanistan to put their own leaders in place, at whatever disastrous consequences that may deliver. Once the dust settles, negotiate with them through first world incentives, or sanctions, or whatever other tools are available.

It will interesting to see how this plays out, Pakistan, Iran and Russia may all see this as a great opportunity to drive their own agendas.

 

[michael parris heuberger]

While he as well as all his advisors sure misjudged and misspoke regarding how fast the Taliban will take over, what other solution would you have proposed?

The simple fact that there is little resistance to what the Taliban are doing, shows that there is not much support for the current regime, which we trained and supported at great expense.

It is the question of how to try and prevent extreme human suffering in a foreign land. First decide if it is even worth the effort to interfere. Second, if we decide to go in towards creating stability, who do we work with? The loser or the winner. If we work with the loser, it is simply a matter of the winner taking over once we are done. If we work with the Taliban, that really is the only opportunity available towards changing their behavior for a future place in something other than a third world. Trump was a moron, but at least he knew this as the only available opportunity. Some are now blaming him for what is happening now.

In short, really the only solution is to allow Afghanistan to put their own leaders in place, at whatever disastrous consequences that may deliver. Once the dust settles, negotiate with them through first world incentives, or sanctions, or whatever other tools are available.

It will interesting to see how this plays out, Pakistan, Iran and Russia may all see this as a great opportunity to drive their own agendas.

Hi Make a deal with the DEVIL and this is what you get. They tried not to hurt innocent people, and now how many will be killed.

 

[busabobh]

You can never win a war unless you are willing to be nastier than those you oppose!

 

[TallTom]

While he as well as all his advisors sure misjudged and misspoke regarding how fast the Taliban will take over, what other solution would you have proposed?

The simple fact that there is little resistance to what the Taliban are doing, shows that there is not much support for the current regime, which we trained and supported at great expense.

It is the question of how to try and prevent extreme human suffering in a foreign land. First decide if it is even worth the effort to interfere. Second, if we decide to go in towards creating stability, who do we work with? The loser or the winner. If we work with the loser, it is simply a matter of the winner taking over once we are done. If we work with the Taliban, that really is the only opportunity available towards changing their behavior for a future place in something other than a third world. Trump was a moron, but at least he knew this as the only available opportunity. Some are now blaming him for what is happening now.

In short, really the only solution is to allow Afghanistan to put their own leaders in place, at whatever disastrous consequences that may deliver. Once the dust settles, negotiate with them through first world incentives, or sanctions, or whatever other tools are available.

It will interesting to see how this plays out, Pakistan, Iran and Russia may all see this as a great opportunity to drive their own agendas.

Look I get it. It's a mess. We now have a generation of people that we have fed, educated, built infrastructure for, that are going to be on the world's stage now that we abandoned them.

And service members that could literally have sent their entire military career there.

The point I was making is, we saw what Obama 1.0 did. Trump did not want that repeated.

Now we have 2.0

I hope we don't fix it again. Which I'm worried we will buckle under the world pressure to provide humanitarian support again.

 

[Bumblebee]

You can never win a war unless you are willing to be nastier than those you oppose!

Difficult to fight an enemy who doesn't follow any rules of armed conflict...whereas our armies have to follow them.

It will only be a matter of time when Afghanistan turns into a failed state....then it will become a scourge for western society...and a breeding ground for training international terrorist cells.

 

[Bumblebee]

Hi Make a deal with the DEVIL and this is what you get. They tried not to hurt innocent people, and now how many will be killed.

The Taliban ruled Afghanistan before the coalition invaded it and it appears they weren't damaged enough to not rule it once again....

All those years, lives and money and we are back to square one...

 

[jellyrug]

Look I get it. It's a mess. We now have a generation of people that we have fed, educated, built infrastructure for, that are going to be on the world's stage now that we abandoned them.

And service members that could literally have sent their entire military career there.

The point I was making is, we saw what Obama 1.0 did. Trump did not want that repeated.

Now we have 2.0

I hope we don't fix it again. Which I'm worried we will buckle under the world pressure to provide humanitarian support again.

The media is biased towards the Democrats.
They may describe the actions of the previous administration as dealing with the devil.

We have to go back to the truth and reality though. The previous administration wrote a detailed instruction manual (agreement) on how to withdraw from Afghanistan. See the linky below.

The current administration threw the instruction manual out the window, with an unconditional withdrawal.

https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-For-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf

China is already celebrating current events, it will take the US years to repair their reputation.

 

[fallenarch]

I don't get how the media is biased toward the Democrats when the story they are painting is Biden made a stupid mistake. In reality, this was the only choice we have. There is no Afghan security force and they are running so fast that they are actually arming the Talibam with advanced equipment being left behind. Read this and you will understand that this was a hopeless situation unless Biden was willing to put 100K troops in there and sustain 10-15% losses.

The Afghan Military Was Built Over 20 Years. How Did It Collapse So Quickly? (Published 2021)

The Taliban’s rapid advance has made clear that U.S. efforts to turn Afghanistan’s military into a robust, independent fighting force have failed, with its soldiers feeling abandoned by inept leaders.

www.nytimes.com

 

[c10]

All I can consider is the people needing to get out , and my son Tristan 82nd 3rd BCT is there now . Last time we heard from him was 40 hours ago . Non stop flight there . Asked if they were jumping in or landing . He said jumping was not off the table as airports condition was unknown.
Thankfully he has 4 years training in the Marines , but the Army Joes hes with are not up to speed . Very little training going on in the Army currently .

 

[jellyrug]

I don't get how the media is biased toward the Democrats when the story they are painting is Biden made a stupid mistake. In reality, this was the only choice we have. There is no Afghan security force and they are running so fast that they are actually arming the Talibam with advanced equipment being left behind. Read this and you will understand that this was a hopeless situation unless Biden was willing to put 100K troops in there and sustain 10-15% losses.

The Afghan Military Was Built Over 20 Years. How Did It Collapse So Quickly? (Published 2021)

The Taliban’s rapid advance has made clear that U.S. efforts to turn Afghanistan’s military into a robust, independent fighting force have failed, with its soldiers feeling abandoned by inept leaders.

www.nytimes.com

I’m not a NY Times fan, plus have to create an account to process that link.

I don’t know Arch, to me the link I posted was pretty simple and easy to accomplish.

It basically allowed drawing out troops based on conditions which the Taliban had to conform to. Following the agreement meant not to withdraw troops if it could not be done peacefully and handing over power according to the agreement would have meant our forces as well as our equipment and military technology would have been out without major incidents.

In short, the agreement meant we would only have withdrawn troops in a manner and speed allowing control in place. What is happening now sure is not the only choice we had.

The agreement was the difference between a controlled departure, rather than a chaotic departure chosen by the current administration.

 

[michael parris heuberger]

All I can consider is the people needing to get out , and my son Tristan 82nd 3rd BCT is there now . Last time we heard from him was 40 hours ago . Non stop flight there . Asked if they were jumping in or landing . He said jumping was not off the table as airports condition was unknown.
Thankfully he has 4 years training in the Marines , but the Army Joes hes with are not up to speed . Very little training going on in the Army currently .

Hi. I wish him all the god speed that he stays safe. I have not heard from my grandson Taylor yet I hope he is safe as he is also a Marine.

 

[michael parris heuberger]

Hi. I wish him all the god speed that he stays safe. I have not heard from my grandson Taylor yet I hope he is safe as he is also a Marine.

Hi I wonder what would happen if we started to burn all there poppy fields?