Carpenter Racing 1441 kit for Gen 3

[sixpack577]

A for zx14 vs Busa...nobody mentioned ergonomics.
I'm 5'10 170 lbs, 32-33" inseam, and I can flatfoot all the Busas, with a slightly bent knee, and the gen3 being by far the most comfortable.
On a zx14, I am on my toes, with a noticeably longer reach to the bars, and a more raked riding position.
I have no problem riding it at all, but the zx14 feels much bigger than the Busa.

 

[hayabuser]

I had a 2011 zx14r and after 2 years and only 2,500 miles i sold it. I spent a bit on it making it my bike, but just could not gel with it like i have with both the Gen1 & 2 Busa.

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I felt the same way with the 2010 -14 I owned. It was a capable bike but it didn't speak to me... it was almost Honda-like in its efficiency. And that's not good. The engine was smooth, but overly so, and I just didn't bond with it. The thing about the Hayabusa (and Suzukis in general) is that the bike feels alive under you... it vibrates, inhales with authority, wears its flaws on its sleeve. You have to adapt to its compromises like in a good marriage, and it gives you fulfillment and pleasure in return. You form a relationship with the bike over time, you just don't jump on and go. When it's too easy, you lose interest... there's a reason that the bikes with the strongest personalities are the most enduring. The most desirable recent Honda is the RC51, not because it's their best bike, but because it's flawed... it's the least Honda-like Honda and that makes it THE ONE. People don't buy Ducatis because they're reliable, it's the passion that draws people in.

A motorcycle is not a rational machine, so why use rational thinking when buying one? Follow your emotions and you'll enjoy every ride.

/threadjack

 

[sixpack577]

I felt the same way with the 2010 -14 I owned. It was a capable bike but it didn't speak to me... it was almost Honda-like in its efficiency. And that's not good. The engine was smooth, but overly so, and I just didn't bond with it. The thing about the Hayabusa (and Suzukis in general) is that the bike feels alive under you... it vibrates, inhales with authority, wears its flaws on its sleeve. You have to adapt to its compromises like in a good marriage, and it gives you fulfillment and pleasure in return. You form a relationship with the bike over time, you just don't jump on and go. When it's too easy, you lose interest... there's a reason that the bikes with the strongest personalities are the most enduring. The most desirable recent Honda is the RC51, not because it's their best bike, but because it's flawed... it's the least Honda-like Honda and that makes it THE ONE. People don't buy Ducatis because they're reliable, it's the passion that draws people in.

A motorcycle is not a rational machine, so why use rational thinking when buying one? Follow your emotions and you'll enjoy every ride.

/threadjack

This^
I got a 2012 Kawasaki Concours about 6 months ago, for 2up and longer distance than the gsxr1k.
The Concours is a great bike, and does suprisingly more than expected...but it just doesn't do it for me.
The only thrills with that bike is me waiting to crash it pushing it beyond it's limits, lmao!.
So, I listed it for sale or trade this week, and on to the next one...a gen3 eventually.

 

[SS4Luck]

can someone clarify if the 1441cc's 242 hp must be at the flywheel right?

No it is at the rear wheel

 

[Bumblebee]

YES... rear wheel horsepower..... on a dynojet style dyno. STD correction factor. Almost certainly using race fuel. Putting its best foot foward. When using the SAE correction factor(the tightest standard) the numbers almost always drop. but we are probably talking about 5 hp here. I wish everyone would use SAE numbers, and then we wouldnt have sooo many wild claims and people saying that every dyno is different and wild fluctuations are possible. If everyone used the SAE correction factor and a dynojet dyno, a person could take the bike to ANY dynojet dyno in the country and it would be within 5 hp across the country. I truly believe this. A properly operating dynojet produces surprising repeatable results in with SAE correction factor.

So many variables.....tire condition, type of rims, type of bearings, chain condition/size, oil weight, clutch condition, atmospheric conditions, etc, etc....

I've noticed this sort of attention to detail when someone is selling a product, they want to maximize their results....it seems hp figures sell.

Only thinking out loud here, not saying anything everyone doesn't know already....

 

[Bumblebee]

same bike/same tire/same chain.... if SAE numbers are used.... no games played... if the bike was run on a healthy dynojet here in NY and then flew to California... the end result should be within 5 HP of each other. surprisingly repeatble results.

In a perfect world of course....

 

[Bumblebee]

but SAE numbers are seldom provided because they are almost always a LOWER number than the STD corrected numbers.

....and that's the big reason why they aren't all SAE numbers as HP and bragging rights sell.

 

[Got-Busa?]

It's just that if it's so easy to get 1441ccs through the aftermarket for two (three?) generations of Hayabusa now, why didn't Suzuki do it? How much extra investment would that have been in the Gen3's development? It's not like the 'Busa is the budget choice anymore anyway... it's seriously expensive now.

Probably couldn’t make 1441cc pass emissions without neutering it big time, Euro5 is no joke! The H2 can’t pass it, the R6 couldn’t and many others.

How is it expensive? Have you shopped bikes lately? Most brands are $20-30-40k for top tier stuff, Busa is a bargain UNDER $20k.

 

[Got-Busa?]

I just explained these were STD numbers... on a dynojet dyno.. so YES at the wheel. AND PROBABLY ON RACE FUEL. again.. to get the highest numbers and generate interest... like everyone else. Its a known fact that brocks dyno is a little happy and probably bobs a little also.. a LITTLE happy. bear in mind, they are selling a product so they are putting forth their BEST effort. bob has always been known to do first class naturally aspirated builds/ cylinder head work.

Bobs I can agree is happy, Brock’s not a chance…he knows how to setup the bikes.

 

[Got-Busa?]

can someone clarify if the 1441cc's 242 hp must be at the flywheel right?

No, this is rear wheel on a happy dyno. Expect 220-maybe 230 on a normal dyno..

 

[Got-Busa?]

A for zx14 vs Busa...nobody mentioned ergonomics.
I'm 5'10 170 lbs, 32-33" inseam, and I can flatfoot all the Busas, with a slightly bent knee, and the gen3 being by far the most comfortable.
On a zx14, I am on my toes, with a noticeably longer reach to the bars, and a more raked riding position.
I have no problem riding it at all, but the zx14 feels much bigger than the Busa.

BINGO!!!

I’m 6’2” and for my build size the 14 just seems odd and not comfy at all. Every Gen Busa has just felt better and felt better designed. I much prefer the looks over the other. Not to mention for the racing I do, aero is KING and that’s the Hayabusa. Don’t get me started on frame design, maintenance, and Kawi (un)reliability..

 

[zucchero]

Probably couldn’t make 1441cc pass emissions without neutering it big time, Euro5 is no joke! The H2 can’t pass it, the R6 couldn’t and many others.

How is it expensive? Have you shopped bikes lately? Most brands are $20-30-40k for top tier stuff, Busa is a bargain UNDER $20k.

I completely agree.In India busa is not the most expensive one.there are lots of litre class bikes which are more expensive than busa.BMW tops the list.

 

[zucchero]

Nah probably not on the wrong forum. I still learn enough here. My booza is in the living room lol. I'm not saying it's a bad bike. It's not not better then the zx14 as a street bike.

Be honest with it. What does the Hayabusa do better over a zx14? Does it handle better? Does it have better brakes? Does it make more power? Looks is very debatable I personally enjoy the look of both. Is the Hayabusa more comfortable?
I'm talking about a daily riding street bike.

I know few people who have or had owned busa gen(2) and zx14 at some point of time and almost everyone said that without a doudbt zx14 motor is much more refined and smooth but they all admit that in corners and twisty turns busa is much easier to handle and corner because zx14 uses a twin beam design frame and hayabusa a monocouqe design frame which makes all the difference in handling.
there are people in this forum with gen3 and most of them will agree that when compered with gen2 the power is certainly down but the motor now feels highly refined and smooth.I have heard this in probably every gen3 review i have seen on youtube.
the brakes in gen3 are now 320mm(front disc) as compared to gen2 310mm and if I am not wrong then the zx14 also has 310mm and the brakes of gen3 are a HUGE improvement over gen2.I am sure if we compare braking of gen3 with zx14 if not better it will be at PAR with zx14.
So now if we compare a gen3 with zx14 it seems to have much better handling as it uses the same old tried and tested monocoque frame,brakes with bigger disc also seems to better or at par and certainly now gen3 has a super smooth and refined engine.
Agen3 ia a modern day machine.overall it will be much better.

 

[zucchero]

It is no secret now that excpet power suzuki has worked a LOT on gen3.

 

[hayabuser]

Probably couldn’t make 1441cc pass emissions without neutering it big time, Euro5 is no joke! The H2 can’t pass it, the R6 couldn’t and many others.

How is it expensive? Have you shopped bikes lately? Most brands are $20-30-40k for top tier stuff, Busa is a bargain UNDER $20k.

Shop for myself? No... but I work in a dealership so.....

I called out the Gen3 for being expensive because the Gen2 was cheap. The 2020 was $15K and change here in Canada, the 2022 jumped to over $22K. That $7000 leap took the value-leader Hayabusa and dropped it into a whole new tax-bracket, and made it a premium purchase OVER the ZX14R.

 

[hayabuser]

I know few people who have or had owned busa gen(2) and zx14 at some point of time and almost everyone said that without a doudbt zx14 motor is much more refined and smooth but they all admit that in corners and twisty turns busa is much easier to handle and corner because zx14 uses a twin beam design frame and hayabusa a monocouqe design frame which makes all the difference in handling.

You have that backwards. The Hayabusa is a twin-beam frame, the ZX14 is a monocoque. Try changing a battery on a ZX14 some time and you'll know that Suzuki's traditional design is better.

 

[Ked0607]

Shop for myself? No... but I work in a dealership so.....

I called out the Gen3 for being expensive because the Gen2 was cheap. The 2020 was $15K and change here in Canada, the 2022 jumped to over $22K. That $7000 leap took the value-leader Hayabusa and dropped it into a whole new tax-bracket, and made it a premium purchase OVER the ZX14R.

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EURO 5 my guy all that emissions crap cost more. Also ZX is not available in any other market but north america due to being non euro 5. If Kaw doesnt upgrade the ZX then it to will be just like the GSXR

 

[kml]

You have that backwards. The Hayabusa is a twin-beam frame, the ZX14 is a monocoque. Try changing a battery on a ZX14 some time and you'll know that Suzuki's traditional design is better.

Ever seen a video changing spark plugs on a zx12r?

LOL

cheers
ken

 

[Got-Busa?]

Shop for myself? No... but I work in a dealership so.....

I called out the Gen3 for being expensive because the Gen2 was cheap. The 2020 was $15K and change here in Canada, the 2022 jumped to over $22K. That $7000 leap took the value-leader Hayabusa and dropped it into a whole new tax-bracket, and made it a premium purchase OVER the ZX14R.

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Glad I only paid $16,850 for mine but it still doesn’t change the market. Go to any other premium brand and you’re spending almost DOUBLE sometimes more than for what the Busa offers.

For the same price or less, I can build my Busa to my needs/wants and walk away from those other bikes if that’s your desire. I just prefer the comfort and complete package the Busa still offers 20+ years in at a decent price.

These are all US prices so $3-5k+ more in Canada for a stock bike and then you’ve got to mod it. Don’t get me started on the Ducati exhaust $5-8k for just the exhaust system…

 

[ottafish]

EURO 5 my guy all that emissions crap cost more. Also ZX is not available in any other market but north america due to being non euro 5. If Kaw doesnt upgrade the ZX then it to will be just like the GSXR

No. No and no.
I wish people would realise the world exists outside Nth America.
It’s still available here as a 2022 release and will be next year also.