Dang it. More stuff against Obama

[Postal]

So by your account it is ok and, I guess Patriotic, to limit a person's civil rights as long as YOU get to pick which rights are limited?

- What "Special Privledges" for homosexuals are you talking about?
- I have never heard a Democrat say they were pro-abortion.
- The bail-out that a great number of republicans voted for is a very extreme social program and socialist.
- Any law that supports civil rights is ok by me, just as is is ok by me that your church chooses who they allow to be a member, but when the church starts making policy, you get the Taliban.
- Wouldn't teaching the poor to work be a form of welfare?

- What "Special Privledges" for homosexuals are you talking about? Come on, what rock do you live under? The whole reason the Hate crimes laws were created by Clinton and Reno was to satisfy the Gays who don't want people telling others that homosexuality is a sin. This is a special privalege enjoyed by Gays. A man walked into a church and killed Christians several years ago and no hate crime was filed against him. If a Christian would have killed some Gays then the Christian would have went to death-row for a hate crime, which carries extra punishment.

- I have never heard a Democrat say they were pro-abortion. Again, what rock do you live under. You need to check the voting records of Dems.

- The bail-out that a great number of republicans voted for is a very extreme social program and socialist. Have you forgot who controls congress? The Dems, for the last two years. More Dems voted for the bail-out than Republicans.

- Any law that supports civil rights is ok by me, just as is is ok by me that your church chooses who they allow to be a member, but when the church starts making policy, you get the Taliban. My church is open to anyone.

- Wouldn't teaching the poor to work be a form of welfare? No. Webster's Dictionary defines Welfare as: aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need b: an agency or program through which such aid is distributed. Teaching someone to feed themselves gets them off thier butts and makes them a productive member of society.

P.

 

[Dino]

- What "Special Privledges" for homosexuals are you talking about? Come on, what rock do you live under? The whole reason the Hate crimes laws were created by Clinton and Reno was to satisfy the Gays who don't want people telling others that homosexuality is a sin. This is a special privalege enjoyed by Gays. A man walked into a church and killed Christians several years ago and no hate crime was filed against him. If a Christian would have killed some Gays then the Christian would have went to death-row for a hate crime, which carries extra punishment.

- I have never heard a Democrat say they were pro-abortion. Again, what rock do you live under. You need to check the voting records of Dems.

- The bail-out that a great number of republicans voted for is a very extreme social program and socialist. Have you forgot who controls congress? The Dems, for the last two years. More Dems voted for the bail-out than Republicans.

- Any law that supports civil rights is ok by me, just as is is ok by me that your church chooses who they allow to be a member, but when the church starts making policy, you get the Taliban. My church is open to anyone.

- Wouldn't teaching the poor to work be a form of welfare? No. Webster's Dictionary defines Welfare as: aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need b: an agency or program through which such aid is distributed. Teaching someone to feed themselves gets them off thier butts and makes them a productive member of society.

P.

- So it is a "Special Privledge" to have a law against hate and violence directed toward a segment of society? Please cite your reference to "A man walked into a church and killed Christians several years ago and no hate crime was filed against him."

- I have never seen a "Pro-abortion" bill put to the vote. Please cite one if you believe it exists?

- I agree more democrats voted for the bail out. But it was not until a mass of pork was added that the republicas voted. Nevertheless my point is that it is the most socialist piece of legislation ever put forth. How do you explain ANY republican voted for it?

- How can you say your church be open to anyone yet you state it supports an anti-gay agenda?

- The definition you cited: Webster's Dictionary defines Welfare as: aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need.

Is not training a necessity inorder for a person to benefit him or herself?

 

[CTA_Busa_LE]

- So it is a "Special Privledge" to have a law against hate and violence directed toward a segment of society? Please cite your reference to "A man walked into a church and killed Christians several years ago and no hate crime was filed against him."

- I have never seen a "Pro-abortion" bill put to the vote. Please cite one if you believe it exists?

- I agree more democrats voted for the bail out. But it was not until a mass of pork was added that the republicas voted. Nevertheless my point is that it is the most socialist piece of legislation ever put forth. How do you explain ANY republican voted for it?

- How can you say your church be open to anyone yet you state it supports an anti-gay agenda?

- The definition you cited: Webster's Dictionary defines Welfare as: aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need.

Is not training a necessity inorder for a person to benefit him or herself?

- on hate crimes, why should it be more of a penalty for one to kill someone based upon race or sexual orientation? The person is still dead and the person who committed the act still a murderer. I have yet to see ANY murder where there was not some kind of hate between the two. Show me a case where someone killed another because they were best friends.

- abortion bill? you want an example? Try this one on. In 1997, Obama voted against SB 230, which would have turned doctors into felons by banning so-called partial-birth abortion, & against a 2000 bill banning state funding. Although these bills included an exception to save the life of the mother, they didn't include anything about abortions necessary to protect the health of the mother. The legislation defined a fetus as a person, & could have criminalized virtually all abortion. So there you go, votes regarding abortion do occur.
information taken from this website: Barack Obama on Abortion

-the bailout, EVERYONE who supported it should be ran out. Tell the whole story, McCain, Obama and Biden all voted for the plan! So this topic is somewhat out because they were all involved in it. Here I chose the lesser of two evils based upon other issues.

- most churchs welcome everyone, mine teaches us to love the person not the sin. It is the christians duty to reach out to those who sin and show them the way. It is not our job to judge, God will take care of that for us

- welfare, i'm all for helping people in need. Need being those who can't work, not those who just don't feel like working. I do not believe we should be supporting those in "want". example I can work but I don't "want" to. I had another kid I "want" some more money. You get the picture. The group that signs my check can drug test me, why can't the government drug test those receiving welfare. If I test positive I lose my benefits and check, why should they keep theirs?
There is more than enough money being spent to take care of those who really need it. Problem is we can't just support everyone who wants welfare because they don't want to work.

 

[Postal]

- So it is a "Special Privledge" to have a law against hate and violence directed toward a segment of society? Please cite your reference to "A man walked into a church and killed Christians several years ago and no hate crime was filed against him."

- I have never seen a "Pro-abortion" bill put to the vote. Please cite one if you believe it exists?

- I agree more democrats voted for the bail out. But it was not until a mass of pork was added that the republicas voted. Nevertheless my point is that it is the most socialist piece of legislation ever put forth. How do you explain ANY republican voted for it?

- How can you say your church be open to anyone yet you state it supports an anti-gay agenda?

- The definition you cited: Webster's Dictionary defines Welfare as: aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need.

Is not training a necessity inorder for a person to benefit him or herself?

Hate Crime: Take your pick>> man opens fire in church - Google Search None of these people were charged with hate crimes.

Abortion: Every time the Republicans try to overturn RVW, Democrats defeat it. Look at their voting records, years of votes to keep RVW in place. I can't believe you would even challenge this one. You need to do more research on the voting recotrds of Dems and Republicans.

Bail outs: Often bills get convoluted with other things just to get them through. Fact is, more Dems supported it than voted against it. Don't know why some Repubs voted for it.

Church: My church, or the one I attend, supports the Holy Bible as the infallible Word of God. Our belief is that Jesus Christ died for the sins of all persons, and that only through personal faith in JC can one be saved. Anyone is welcome at my church. Now the fact that a Gay person would come there means nothing other than that they are welcome to worship just like anyone else. Because we preach the Holy Bible there it may come up that scripture tells us that homosexuality, like many other sins, is an abomination unto God. I don't judge the sinner, God does. I welcome the sinner, like me, but I am a sinner saved by grace, as anyone can be.

Welfare: Yes, training may be necessary, so I would accept that and fund that, if it proved to be successful. But I am against government handouts except for the extreme needy who cannot provide for themselves because of hadicaps or mental ilnesses.

P.

 

[Dino]

Hate Crime: Take your pick>> man opens fire in church - Google Search None of these people were charged with hate crimes. <--- Of course not. Why becase he was a member of the church and the police stated that it was domestic in nature. He made no claim that he was motivated by hatred toward christians. Completely different...
Abortion: Every time the Republicans try to overturn RVW, Democrats defeat it. Look at their voting records, years of votes to keep RVW in place. I can't believe you would even challenge this one. You need to do more research on the voting recotrds of Dems and Republicans. <--- I would submit that this has more to do with a woman's reproductive rights rather than being "Pro-Abortion".

Bail outs: Often bills get convoluted with other things just to get them through. Fact is, more Dems supported it than voted against it. Don't know why some Repubs voted for it. <- The issue is whether or not it is socialist. Your position was that democrats support socialism and you vote based on the principals of the party. If that is the case then why did so many repubilcans support the bail out bill.

Church: My church, or the one I attend, supports the Holy Bible as the infallible Word of God. Our belief is that Jesus Christ died for the sins of all persons, and that only through personal faith in JC can one be saved. Anyone is welcome at my church. Now the fact that a Gay person would come there means nothing other than that they are welcome to worship just like anyone else. Because we preach the Holy Bible there it may come up that scripture tells us that homosexuality, like many other sins, is an abomination unto God. I don't judge the sinner, God does. I welcome the sinner, like me, but I am a sinner saved by grace, as anyone can be. <--- Are you not judging the sinner by saying that you will not vote for a candidate that supports equal rights for someone you see as commiting a sin? In other words are you not judging someone by denying them the same rights as you based on something you consider a sin?

Welfare: Yes, training may be necessary, so I would accept that and fund that, if it proved to be successful. But I am against government handouts except for the extreme needy who cannot provide for themselves because of hadicaps or mental ilnesses. <--- Also isn't Medicare also welfare? What about Social Security?
P.

See above

 

[runeight]

Are you still on this bailout bill?

To funny.

r8

 

[Dino]

- on hate crimes, why should it be more of a penalty for one to kill someone based upon race or sexual orientation? <---It should not. The person is still dead and the person who committed the act still a murderer. I have yet to see ANY murder where there was not some kind of hate between the two. Show me a case where someone killed another because they were best friends. <--- I completely agree with you. But the claim was that hate crime legislation was a secial prevlidge for homosexuals. As long as the law applies equally I don't have a problem with it. I'll leave it up to the investigation to determine if the facts of the case rise to the level of a hate crime.

- abortion bill? you want an example? Try this one on. In 1997, Obama voted against SB 230, which would have turned doctors into felons by banning so-called partial-birth abortion, & against a 2000 bill banning state funding. Although these bills included an exception to save the life of the mother, they didn't include anything about abortions necessary to protect the health of the mother. The legislation defined a fetus as a person, & could have criminalized virtually all abortion. So there you go, votes regarding abortion do occur.
information taken from this website: Barack Obama on Abortion <---- I'll leave this up to your integrity, but isn't this the bill Obama voted against because there was already legislation in place?

-the bailout, EVERYONE who supported it should be ran out. Tell the whole story, McCain, Obama and Biden all voted for the plan! So this topic is somewhat out because they were all involved in it. Here I chose the lesser of two evils based upon other issues. <-- I agree ,but the point is that the legislation (Bail out) was socialist not who voted for it except that it was pointed out that a difference between dems and repubs was that dems were socialist and rebupbs not.

- most churchs welcome everyone, mine teaches us to love the person not the sin. It is the christians duty to reach out to those who sin and show them the way. It is not our job to judge, God will take care of that for us<-- How is denying a person civil rights based upon sexual orientation not judging them?

- welfare, i'm all for helping people in need. Need being those who can't work, not those who just don't feel like working. I do not believe we should be supporting those in "want". example I can work but I don't "want" to. I had another kid I "want" some more money. You get the picture. The group that signs my check can drug test me, why can't the government drug test those receiving welfare. If I test positive I lose my benefits and check, why should they keep theirs? <--- No problem with this at all.

There is more than enough money being spent to take care of those who really need it. Problem is we can't just support everyone who wants welfare because they don't want to work.

see above

 

[runeight]

Media Mum on Barney Frank's Fannie Mae Love Connection

r8

 

[Dino]

Media Mum on Barney Frank's Fannie Mae Love Connection

r8

Rune.....please read the post.

 

[Postal]

See above

Originally Posted by Postal
Hate Crime: Take your pick>> man opens fire in church - Google Search None of these people were charged with hate crimes. <--- Of course not. Why becase he was a member of the church and the police stated that it was domestic in nature. He made no claim that he was motivated by hatred toward christians. Completely different... (Not really. You need to read through these. What about the gunmen who were not part of a church, and even if they were, a crime is still a crime. We're talking about the penalty, none of them received a hate-crime conviction, when it was hatred towards Christians that was the motivation. It's a double standard. Speak out against homosexuality and you are labeled Homophobic. Speak out against Christianity and you are a Hollywood celebrity.)

Abortion: Every time the Republicans try to overturn RVW, Democrats defeat it. Look at their voting records, years of votes to keep RVW in place. I can't believe you would even challenge this one. You need to do more research on the voting recotrds of Dems and Republicans. <--- I would submit that this has more to do with a woman's reproductive rights rather than being "Pro-Abortion". (Whatever you call it, abortion is abortion to a Christian, and to God.)

Bail outs: Often bills get convoluted with other things just to get them through. Fact is, more Dems supported it than voted against it. Don't know why some Repubs voted for it. <- The issue is whether or not it is socialist. Your position was that democrats support socialism and you vote based on the principals of the party. If that is the case then why did so many repubilcans support the bail out bill. (More Dems support socialism than Repubs, probably 10 to 1.)

Church: My church, or the one I attend, supports the Holy Bible as the infallible Word of God. Our belief is that Jesus Christ died for the sins of all persons, and that only through personal faith in JC can one be saved. Anyone is welcome at my church. Now the fact that a Gay person would come there means nothing other than that they are welcome to worship just like anyone else. Because we preach the Holy Bible there it may come up that scripture tells us that homosexuality, like many other sins, is an abomination unto God. I don't judge the sinner, God does. I welcome the sinner, like me, but I am a sinner saved by grace, as anyone can be. <--- Are you not judging the sinner by saying that you will not vote for a candidate that supports equal rights for someone you see as commiting a sin? (It's not equal rights when you enact laws to only protect a certain group. Laws should protect everyone.) In other words are you not judging someone by denying them the same rights as you based on something you consider a sin? (No one is denying their rights, they just do not deserve special rights because they are Gay.)

Welfare: Yes, training may be necessary, so I would accept that and fund that, if it proved to be successful. But I am against government handouts except for the extreme needy who cannot provide for themselves because of hadicaps or mental ilnesses. <--- Also isn't Medicare also welfare? (No. It supports older Americans who worked and can no longer work.) What about Social Security? (What about it? I paid in for 30 years. I hope to get it when I retire. Don't you?)

P.

 

[Dino]

Originally Posted by Postal
Hate Crime: Take your pick>> man opens fire in church - Google Search None of these people were charged with hate crimes. <--- Of course not. Why becase he was a member of the church and the police stated that it was domestic in nature. He made no claim that he was motivated by hatred toward christians. Completely different... (Not really. You need to read through these. What about the gunmen who were not part of a church, and even if they were, a crime is still a crime. We're talking about the penalty, none of them received a hate-crime conviction, when it was hatred towards Christians that was the motivation. It's a double standard. Speak out against homosexuality and you are labeled Homophobic. Speak out against Christianity and you are a Hollywood celebrity.) If there is evidence that meets the criteria of a hate crime then it is up to the District Attorney to charge individuals for with the crime. If the DA did not file the charge then you have to guess the evidence was not there. Don't judge based upon what you see in the news as there is probably more to it.

Abortion: Every time the Republicans try to overturn RVW, Democrats defeat it. Look at their voting records, years of votes to keep RVW in place. I can't believe you would even challenge this one. You need to do more research on the voting recotrds of Dems and Republicans. <--- I would submit that this has more to do with a woman's reproductive rights rather than being "Pro-Abortion". (Whatever you call it, abortion is abortion to a Christian, and to God.) And denial or civil rights is UN-American to an American.

Bail outs: Often bills get convoluted with other things just to get them through. Fact is, more Dems supported it than voted against it. Don't know why some Repubs voted for it. <- The issue is whether or not it is socialist. Your position was that democrats support socialism and you vote based on the principals of the party. If that is the case then why did so many repubilcans support the bail out bill. (More Dems support socialism than Repubs, probably 10 to 1.) Not really almost 1/2 in the House (91 of 199) and 33 of 48 in the Senate vote for the bailout. Only 15 voted no in the Senate (that is not 10 to 1) . We can drop this one because it annoys Rune. I think it is safe to say that current republicans in congress will vote for socialist legislation if they get enough pork tacked on.

Church: My church, or the one I attend, supports the Holy Bible as the infallible Word of God. Our belief is that Jesus Christ died for the sins of all persons, and that only through personal faith in JC can one be saved. Anyone is welcome at my church. Now the fact that a Gay person would come there means nothing other than that they are welcome to worship just like anyone else. Because we preach the Holy Bible there it may come up that scripture tells us that homosexuality, like many other sins, is an abomination unto God. I don't judge the sinner, God does. I welcome the sinner, like me, but I am a sinner saved by grace, as anyone can be. <--- Are you not judging the sinner by saying that you will not vote for a candidate that supports equal rights for someone you see as commiting a sin? (It's not equal rights when you enact laws to only protect a certain group. Laws should protect everyone.) <<<---- WHAT LAWs are you talking about? The hate crime legislation? They apply to anyone if the evidence show their actions were motivated by hatred. In other words are you not judging someone by denying them the same rights as you based on something you consider a sin? (No one is denying their rights, they just do not deserve special rights because they are Gay.) <<--Again what special rights are you talking about?

Welfare: Yes, training may be necessary, so I would accept that and fund that, if it proved to be successful. But I am against government handouts except for the extreme needy who cannot provide for themselves because of hadicaps or mental ilnesses. <--- Also isn't Medicare also welfare? (No. It supports older Americans who worked and can no longer work.) Not entirely What about Social Security? (What about it? I paid in for 30 years. I hope to get it when I retire. Don't you?) <-- Is it welfare?

P.

Please tell me about these "Special Laws"

 

[runeight]

Not really almost 1/2 in the House (91 of 199) and 33 of 48 in the Senate vote for the bailout. Only 15 voted no in the Senate (that is not 10 to 1) . We can drop this one because it annoys Rune.

Not really. It's your ignorance to the facts, who caused it and why it is a shell game to all Americans who will pay for it.

Carry on.

r8

 

[Dino]

Not really almost 1/2 in the House (91 of 199) and 33 of 48 in the Senate vote for the bailout. Only 15 voted no in the Senate (that is not 10 to 1) . We can drop this one because it annoys Rune.

Not really. It's your ignorance to the facts, who caused it and why it is a shell game to all Americans who will pay for it.

Carry on.

r8

Exactly what am I ignorant about? Do you even know the topic we are discussing? Of course we are all going to pay for it. I am not in favor of it and I contacted both my senators and my representative and asked them not to vote for it. BUT that is not the issue. We are discussing whether or not it is a piece of Socialist legislation.

 

[runeight]

Of course it is. Already agreed with you in another post.

What's next?

Tax the citizens who work than support those who don't.

Big manufacturing is already gone and by receding tax credits the manufacturing we now have will not spend capital but instead close the doors or layoff employees. (this will trickle down)

National Health Care so the Government controls what you need and what you don't.

Implement the Fairness Doctrine and silence free speech. (mostly right wing)

Once again, I already agreed with you in a previous post. The bailout is Socialistic in nature. Controlling our financial market is not good.

Look at Amtrack, education system, post office, IRS and any other government program to date.

No worries.

r8

 

[Postal]

Hey, how about them Redskins? (My team!)

They are all Republicans by the way.....

 

[05 Busa LE]

Think about the soldiers who bravely serve this Country for all of us. The sacrifice of one, for all.

Then imagine if the rest of us made that type of sacrifice. I know it doesn't even begin to compare to what our military and their families sacrifice for us, but think of other types of service you can give to your Country. Maybe for someone you don't know; someone who won't ask, but who really needs your help.

I've always thought of it this way--do you think if a child had a choice, say, before they were born, they'd chose a mom who's addicted to drugs, a dad they'll maybe never know, and the knowledge that there's no way out, ever, because, really, nobody cares?

So, if you want to call it Socialism, that's ok. Or a handout--that's ok, too. But I've lived in a few places in my life, and it breaks my heart to think that most people are disgusted when they see the poor, the sick, the homeless.

That's why I'm supporting Obama and Biden. It has nothing to do with their color, their age, their sex.

It's about giving four years of our history to the forgotten.

 

[05 Busa LE]

#1 homosexual relationships are wrong, not open for debate, it is what it is

#2 Democrats don't have to say they are pro-abortion, they keep voting to allow it. At the rate it is transforming, in just a few short years we should be able to just shoot kids until they are 18 if we decide we no longer want them

#3 More democrats voted for the bailout than republicans, let us not forget the much of the need to be bailed out was caused by the Community Reinvestment Act. Google that one if you want some good reading!

#4 I agree, the church should not make policy, but it's teachings should have a big effect on those that do. Some things are just so obvious you don't need the church to tell you it is wrong. Thou shall not kill? Refer back to #2, Thou shall not steal? Refer back to #3

#5 The poor know how to work they just choose not to because it is much easier to continue to receive free money than it is to get out and work for it. Besides it would disrupt much of the drinking and smoking dope than many on welfare do.

1. The United States Government says it's not. In fact, its illegal to discriminate on that basis.

2. The United States Supreme Court, not the Democratic party, "votes" on this issue.

3. Eight years of an unregulated Republican administration created the problem that necessitated the "bailout."

4. The First Amendment to the United States Constitution mandates the separation of Church and State.

5. Welfare was dramatically reformed (read "undercut") in 1996 under President Clinton's administration, so that should no longer be a "problem."

 

[Dino]

#1 homosexual relationships are wrong, not open for debate, it is what it is

#2 Democrats don't have to say they are pro-abortion, they keep voting to allow it. At the rate it is transforming, in just a few short years we should be able to just shoot kids until they are 18 if we decide we no longer want them

#3 More democrats voted for the bailout than republicans, let us not forget the much of the need to be bailed out was caused by the Community Reinvestment Act. Google that one if you want some good reading!

#4 I agree, the church should not make policy, but it's teachings should have a big effect on those that do. Some things are just so obvious you don't need the church to tell you it is wrong. Thou shall not kill? Refer back to #2, Thou shall not steal? Refer back to #3

#5 The poor know how to work they just choose not to because it is much easier to continue to receive free money than it is to get out and work for it. Besides it would disrupt much of the drinking and smoking dope than many on welfare do.

I completely missed this earlier...

#1. Now didn't you say earlier that it is up to God to judge not you? Whether you think it is wrong or not matters little in the eyes of the law and you are completely un-american if you would deny a person their civil right simply because you don't like something about them. If you don't like it move to China they think like that there.

#2. The Government has no right to dictate what someone should do with their body. As I stated before if you want to stop abortions all you have to do is support mothers-to-be and educate young women about birth control to prevent pregnancy. I guess it is easier to just deny women their reproductive rights. You and the Chinese agree again.

#3. I guess that is your justification for the socialist legislature voted by both partys.

#4. How about thou shall not commit adultery? Or do you only bring up the ones you agree with? Actually you are wrong, the church should not influence it at all, our founding father were so passionate about it that there is even an amendment dedicated to it. It is in the Constitution, it is good reading, give it a shot.

#5. Just ridiculous.


I don't mean this to be a personal attack, I respect your right to believe whatever you want but you really need to understand what it is to be American. All I see is you wanting is to deny individuals their civil rights. That is not what this country is about. The beautiful thing about this country is that individuals came be free to live without the opression you would impose. You may also want to re-evaluate your faith because I don't think Jesus would agree with your comments on the poor.

 

[Dino]

Hey, how about them Redskins? (My team!)

They are all Republicans by the way.....

How about answering the question? What are these "Special Rights" you are talking about?

 

[Postal]

How about answering the question? What are these "Special Rights" you are talking about?

I know when I am wasting my time....