Did Harley shoot itself in the foot?

[chrisjp]

You can Google this pretty easily.

Labor bosses don't share workers' pain | detnews.com | The Detroit News

How many CEO's make $300,000? It's a really major misconception that CEO's are always the one's making millions. A good CEO has high skilled and high paid talent around him (or her.) And a good CEO won't sit back and collect millions in compensation that is unearned.

Answer: CEO Salaries - Executive Salaries - Average Salary of a CEO - PayScale



I'm not saying all union workers are doing great, just that on the average, union jobs pay a lot more. $23.25/hr is really good in this economy, but then again, if you're budgeted for lower expenses, you can't really help that. How much are union dues?

only about 20 a week...but my expenses can only be reduced by 2 things...cable tv and internet...the rest is at bare minimum. own my 500 dollar double wide i paid for at a tax auciton...the only loans i have is my bike for one more year..otherwise...the rest is debt free....i know 23.25 is fatastic for my area and my cost of living is truely low here and why i love living here...but with a 200% power increase comeing due to no more legislation for control on the electric companys prices...and heat has increased..by 50% over last year....i pay 300 a month in power and 150 in gas...i drive hour each way to work to actually be able to earn said wages...wich speaking off....got to go...

 

[Vonderbach]

That hour commute is a killer. I drive the same and my gas bill is upwards of $400/mo...no Busa to and from work, just too dangerous for a daily drive.

 

[Temeraire]

Harley needs to diversify their bike models to follow the public's current tastes, keep a classic line to satisfy old hard liners, and reduce the number of bikes the produce until demand comes up.
Easier said than done especially since they are in a bad financial spot in a time when they need money for better R&D to support such a change. They need to sell "the lifestyle" and some extra style on the side to support "the lifestyle."

 

[GMbusa]

Reading this reminds me of my harley days. I guess I really never adjusted to the harley image. Dont't get me wrong there are alot of great people riding harleys but I felt i was was not bring truthful to myself when I rode one, I had a 04 Fatboy and like said earlier the brakes were terrible the exhaust was annoying, but I could deal with that.

It came down to this, I've had the HD for 12 months, walking out from work I noticed the rectifier was hanging down and only holding on by the wires, I zip tied it up and drove to the dealership they took in in immediatly after an about an hour the service manager came and said we have you ready to go....that will be $110.00.

I told him that it was still under warranty and didn't expect to pay anything.
Then he told me that there is nothing wrong with the rectifier only the screws came out and they had to do an electrical check to make sure all was ok.. unexceptable to me. I told him that the manufacturing defect is screw backing out and I was not about to pay for this defect, words were exchanged then another harley executive stepped in and tried to explain this away, I stood strong and said no way I was going to pay 110.00 for 4 screws. After going back and forth we setteled for 50 dollars, I was out of there and totally discourged in the service I recieved, never going back, and I sold the harley
Been riding a Busa ever since.

Damn, the Harley dealer I work for would've never done that. One thing I've come to understand is that there's ALOT of crooked HD dealers out there.

 

[LeDauz]

Originally Posted by Vonderbach
You can Google this pretty easily.

Labor bosses don't share workers' pain | detnews.com | The Detroit News

How many CEO's make $300,000? It's a really major misconception that CEO's are always the one's making millions. A good CEO has high skilled and high paid talent around him (or her.) And a good CEO won't sit back and collect millions in compensation that is unearned.

Answer: CEO Salaries - Executive Salaries - Average Salary of a CEO - PayScale

In the article about top union officails went off the top 50 and your ceo's went off of avg during a recesion when most of they pay is bounes, comission, ect. would have been better to compare top 50 for both or do avg for both. also small compaines that are 5-30 employees tend to bring down the avg of ceo pay. so maybe even avg of C-level employees vs union top level would be fairer

 

[Vonderbach]

In the article about top union officails went off the top 50 and your ceo's went off of avg during a recesion when most of they pay is bounes, comission, ect. would have been better to compare top 50 for both or do avg for both. also small compaines that are 5-30 employees tend to bring down the avg of ceo pay. so maybe even avg of C-level employees vs union top level would be fairer

He asked for proof of "one" union leader making more than a CEO. I wasn't comparing them, I was simply showing that there are union leaders that indeed make more than CEO's. It would be silly of me to try and claim that top CEO's make less than union leaders, as there isn't any parallel in their job requirements nor their expertise.

 

[GMbusa]

You all need to understand that HD's new CEO wasn't even a rider, much less even into motorcycles. HD had to persuade him into getting on a bike since he's the head of harley and he should atleast ride.

Second, the CEO is an old fart that doesn't understand racing, see's no need for it and hates anything sportbike related. There's 2 strikes against Buell, with Buell never doing anything wrong. So the CEO starts up a comittee to evaluate Buell and to see how they could save money. Buell was easily dismissed as a money saving casualty. IMO, I bet the whole commitee was a sham and that Buell's fate was sealed well before anything was started.

If Buell's Barracuda2 concept was put into production, HD/Buell would of made a ton of cash.

 

[Vonderbach]

Buell's sales were so insignificant that I'm sure even if they were making a profit, it wasn't worth the mental maintenance in keeping a second platform in house. The sell more HD's in a year than Buell's sold in their entire existence.

 

[LeDauz]

You all need to understand that HD's new CEO wasn't even a rider, much less even into motorcycles. HD had to persuade him into getting on a bike since he's the head of harley and he should atleast ride.

CEO of HD and didn't ride? who gave him the job? Am not big on HD but still I would never let the CEO of a Motorcycle company be CEO if they didn't atleast ride something. How can you even understand the company with out riding?

Well i guess we will bury HD next to Indain Motorcycle company.

also that Barracuda2 concept was sweet, i seen it in magazine it was definatly something I would like to try 331 lbs dry with 158bhp thats some scoot for a light weight

 

[rmodel65]

what harley needs to do is put the VRod motor on the sportster...

 

[Vonderbach]

CEO's aren't supposed to necessarily identify with the product, they are supposed to manage people and bring profitability to companies. There are plenty of riders in the organization, many in design and upper management alike. Finding a qualified CEO isn't as easy as it sounds. Although one does have to wonder why they didn't promote from within. Likely that they wanted new ideas, it happens.

I doubt the CEO of Suzuki rides. He's barely able to walk....

 

[sixpack577]

So if Harley goes under the only downside is loss of jobs, other than that...who cares. There is a big enough aftermarket to keep harley fans going indefinately. When was the last time they made any significant changes to there outdated bikes? Fuel injection and evo motors on hundred year old technology, big deal.
Harleys are for sale everywhere, and the dealers can't give them away. I wonder why? You can only repackage the same old thing year after year for so long. The hype is runnin out. There is plenty of new and used harleys, aftermarket everything, gear, shirts, ect. ect. to keep the die hards happy for years to come. For most Harley owners it's all about image anyway, and I don't blame them, I wouldn't wanna ride those things any further than I had to anyway
I've ridden quite a few of them over the years, never to be impressed. If you like and ride Harleys, fine, but this is Hayabusa.org

 

[2Wheels2Live]

There was a alot of talk inside the industry as to why they chose to close Buell down instead of selling the division off. Closing Buell down cost them many millions...I have the exact amount in one of my motorcycle mags. Selling it off would have made them money. Plus they made Eric Buell sign a "no competition contract" that lasts till 2013 I believe. Which I think means he can't use any of the Buell technology for sale in the same markets harley is competing in until then.
So they dumped MV Augusta and Buell, MV had the kick-azz literbike with some other cool things coming, Buell had that sweet Barracuda coming, plus their current stuff which was nice, and harley dumps it all to stick with what is no longer working....the same 100 year old tech. They're truly afraid that change is going to derail their money train. And according to the analysts, change and a more diversified lineup is exactly what harley needs to make it in these changing times. The days of being a one trick pony are over harley
I'm starting to think the stiff old suits in management are going to take harley down with their oldschool thinking

 

[jeff355]

ChrisJP- right on the money. As for the Harleys, I owned my 2001 for 9 years, no trouble at all. Sold it earlier this year and bought the Busa. The bikes arent in the same league as we all know. They are selling the lifestyle and if thats what ya want go 4 it. I love the Busa, the power, the way it shifts, handling, etc. I forgot how good these japanese bikes rode over that 9 years. Now, what do they need to do to get me back in the showroom? Put that Vrod powerplant in a Touring bike, and I second the idea of it in the sportster. That would get my attention. Until that happens - I wont be back for a look. Theyve got to move on, they dont even listen to there own customers.

 

[wv rider]

that is because you don,t know what you want. They know what you want!

 

[Vonderbach]

There was a alot of talk inside the industry as to why they chose to close Buell down instead of selling the division off. Closing Buell down cost them many millions...I have the exact amount in one of my motorcycle mags. Selling it off would have made them money. Plus they made Eric Buell sign a "no competition contract" that lasts till 2013 I believe. Which I think means he can't use any of the Buell technology for sale in the same markets harley is competing in until then.

It would seem that Harley simply did not want their dealers carrying a secondary brand that wasn't part of the Harley Co. This was the predominant concern that I saw.

 

[Ctatyk]

Well, the Buell bikes were about as much "Harley" as a Jaguar is a "Tata".

That exactly.

Now, as for comparing a Harley to a Busa, why not be realistic & at least compare the Japanese cruisers with Harley. Harley will still lose, but at least you're comparing apples to apples there. Not everyone can sit with their legs folded up for any length of time either. Did you consider that? Some people don't want a bike that will scream through the twisties or that they can lay over into a corner & touch a knee. That being said...I love all of those things, but I still ride an M109R....a cruiser, but definitely not a harley.

As for the complaints about income & such...if you're making $23+/hour...how are you only bringing home 500/week? I pay insurance, & 401K out of my income, which is significantly less than yours/hour and I bring home around $600/week. This is filing single with only 1 dependent. Your math doesn't make sense unless you're dumping a ton into your 401K or your union dues are astronomical.

I will not say that no union leaders make more than the CEO of their company, but I can honestly say that I've never seen it. I've seen the records of the CEO of a particular company who received $7Million+ as his annual bonus. Wanna bet on if he made more than the union leaders in his company?

 

[jellyrug]

Just curious, but do those who look for motorcycle news in Fortune magazine, also try to find football news in Playboy magazine? ???

Looks like a cut and paste job from an issue some years back.

 

[cipher5791]

Unions are hardly common skilled workers. Personally I feel that it's a welcome change to see a company actually have some cajones to make demands on the unions. I know mine is not a very popular view, but as a company owner, there is no way I will ever allow my people to unionize. This is my business, not yours. if you don't like the wages, go somewhere else. Unions had their place before many employment laws existed, but today there is no use for them. And your average union bosses are just as bad as the CEO's, but you never hear about them because they protect "the workers." Meanwhile they make more than the CEO and you won't find them hurting during the economy.

I my self am a union worker. I make $25+ an hour. I get that pay due to the hazards that I face doing my job. I have the potential to be exposed to a chemical that can cause flu like syptoms if inhaled the right amount. I work around another chemical that gets on your skin and burns if you sweat. The only way to stop the burning is to neutralize it with vinegar. Not to mention the high pressure equiptment that I work around that can cause seroius damage. With the chemicals I am surrounded with at my job, I have the potential to develope some type of illness such as cancer years down the line. These are some reasons why I make the pay that I do. My union makes sure I do get paid according to what I do and the hazards that come with doing my job. Without the union, I know I would make less money. Over 90% of our employees who retire from my job have passed away due to some form of cancer. Many older employees are suffering from a form of cancer or heart disease now. And FYI, my CEO got a 4 million dollar bonus this year. As I can see why you as a business owner can despise a union, please dont impliment that unions are worthless.

 

[chrisjp]

That exactly.

Now, as for comparing a Harley to a Busa, why not be realistic & at least compare the Japanese cruisers with Harley. Harley will still lose, but at least you're comparing apples to apples there. Not everyone can sit with their legs folded up for any length of time either. Did you consider that? Some people don't want a bike that will scream through the twisties or that they can lay over into a corner & touch a knee. That being said...I love all of those things, but I still ride an M109R....a cruiser, but definitely not a harley.

As for the complaints about income & such...if you're making $23+/hour...how are you only bringing home 500/week? I pay insurance, & 401K out of my income, which is significantly less than yours/hour and I bring home around $600/week. This is filing single with only 1 dependent. Your math doesn't make sense unless you're dumping a ton into your 401K or your union dues are astronomical.

I will not say that no union leaders make more than the CEO of their company, but I can honestly say that I've never seen it. I've seen the records of the CEO of a particular company who received $7Million+ as his annual bonus. Wanna bet on if he made more than the union leaders in his company?

i pay 120 a week just for my family's health insurance 10 for dental and 7 for eye...about 50 goes into my 401k. taxes eats up balance. so its more like 600 take home but still i am not sure how anyone makeing 8 hr makes it anymore