Did Harley shoot itself in the foot?

[m_ridgeway]

As I said earlier, I wasn't suggesting that all union workers were overpaid. However, in your particular case, I have to wonder why (a) there are no lawsuits pending for a 90% premature death rate at your company and (b) why you are still working there? If 90% of your fellow employees die prematurely, I would find another line of work. McDonalds would be looking pretty good at that point. Perhaps I'm missing something.

because you hear about the bad, its not proven to be linked to the workplace, and maybe the conditions havent been monitored well enough to establish a definite condition of what will and wont cause cancer.

this whole union argument is rediculous, only lazy people can work for a union ive worked trades for about 10yrs now, lazy people are everywhere union or not. only diff is the non union business that fails because of poor management doesnt have the union to blame, while these "too large too fail" companies can pawn off years of poor management, and say well is the unions fault. nevermind we agreed to these contracts........

 

[cipher5791]

So, you are willing to die of cancer for $25.00 an hour? Sounds kind of stupid to me. You could be a Cashier at a union grocer in California and make $27.00 per hour....................

Not willing to die for anything. Just pointing out the fact that I get paid for the hazards that surround my job. Your statement sounds very stupid to me. If I moved to Cali and became a cashier of $27/hr, with the cost of living that would be like getting paid the $12/hr in GA. Our cashiers here make less than $10/hr. Stay away from the exhaust fumes partner.

 

[cipher5791]

As I said earlier, I wasn't suggesting that all union workers were overpaid. However, in your particular case, I have to wonder why (a) there are no lawsuits pending for a 90% premature death rate at your company and (b) why you are still working there? If 90% of your fellow employees die prematurely, I would find another line of work. McDonalds would be looking pretty good at that point. Perhaps I'm missing something.

Safety is a lot better now than it used to be. We have many OSHA guidelines for safety equiptment in place now that they did not have 40 years ago. Back in the day, some of the guys did not wear dust mask and insulation was made from asbestous. Now we where full face respirators when needed and full protective gear. The potential for me to come in contact with these harmful chemical is there but it has been minimized greatly. I am still there because it is a good paying job and I have been there for almost 10 years.
At a local Mcdonald's in my town, A girl slipped and tried to catch herself and wound up with her hand in the hot grease for a few seconds. She now has third degree burns on her hand. She have on the Mcdonalds uniform which requires you to not wear protective gear even though you work with 300 degree cooking oil all day. Never mind.???

 

[Vonderbach]

There is no way I would ever expect union worker to understand my criticism of their organizers. It would be like me telling you that your uncle is a jerk, and then asking you to join me in that criticism. No matter how warranted it may be, you will move to defend your family first. That's completely reasonable.

However, from my experience, unions in the last half of the 20th century and today are more of a fundraising and political movement than a real workers rights advocate. Sure, they get you increased wages and benefits, but that's what is expected...anything less and you might jump ship. No longer do unions protect you from unsafe conditions or tyrannical CEO's, as these are functions of the state and federal governments.

Some of you may say "I get paid $25/hr, but without the union, I would only get $15/hr. So the question must be asked, is your job worth $25/hr is someone else can do it for $15? The free market system is ruined with collective bargaining. If a company wants to do business in New York or Chicago, they almost certainly must be union. Otherwise they are driven out of town, muscled out, "influenced" if you will. That's not my America and I don't particularly care much for it.

No, not all unions are like this, especially on the local levels. But at its core, unions are bad for business. They prevent cohesion between worker and employer. They are also the reason why many firms choose to hire management from the outside...since you don't really want your execs to be union sympathizers, do you?

And please, I'm not criticsizing union workers and more specifically, I'm not criticizing anyone here...so don't take it personally. These are my honest feelings on the subject, nothing more.

Safety is a lot better now than it used to be. We have many OSHA guidelines for safety equiptment in place now that they did not have 40 years ago. Back in the day, some of the guys did not wear dust mask and insulation was made from asbestous. Now we where full face respirators when needed and full protective gear. The potential for me to come in contact with these harmful chemical is there but it has been minimized greatly. I am still there because it is a good paying job and I have been there for almost 10 years.

You say that OSHA has improved conditions there, which sounds to me like your union didn't really do much to protect worker safety long term. If the government regulations are what has made your workplace safer, why prop up the union? In your original post, you make it sould as if your union is what allows you to get paid well in a harsh environment. But if the environment is no longer deadly and OSHA is responsible...who really made your place of employment safer, the union or the government? And if you're really safer now than 20-30 years ago, is your job still truely worth $25/hr? Or is the union just keeping their grip on the employer so that they have no other choice?

Again, just questions...no disrespect intended in the least.

 

[bigworm]

i know this is an old thread but i'd like to add my 2cents. i've had lots of harleys and its all a life style. i guess one i never got into because other than owning a harley and a tshirt i didn't look the part and hated it when i was labled a biker. that i am not! i like to ride motorcycles no matter what brand. i had a few cbr's and a couple 0f kaws my favorite bikes being the 86 1000 hurricane and the 76 kz900. skip to the mid 90's i got a 76 ironhead sporty then in 05 i bought a 05 sporty new. it was a fun bike but slow as Christmas. i traded it in on a 06 VRSCD , which comes with stock mid controls like a sport bike. i had it at the drag strip before it had 100 miles on it and when i crashed it had about 20k. i never a problem one with it, no oil leaks, no dead batteries never a foot peg rattling loose no anything coming loose like air cooled bike had problems with. i'll get another vrod one day but for crusing around. i'll buy a hayabusa this year to race it'll probably never see the street. i'm on this forum to research the hayabusa's and decide what year i want. i feel 99% of the people that buy harleys are buying ito the life style. i got the vrod because it was the fastest srteet bike harley made.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Yes, I have lived out of Ca. and I very well know of the economic differences.

I wasn't calling him stupid, I was referring to his knowing he had a good chance of getting cancer for $25 an hour. Who would risk their health for ANY price?............

I do.. There are NO JOBS out there right now that pay enough to live. I work at TSA and am subjected to gamma radiation. Cancer is in the TSA employees future. Right now, getting and keeping ANY job is a must. I'm 53 and NO ONE will hire me due to age. Been there and tried it, even applied for jobs that I was way over qualified for. No one will hire anyone 53 years old unless its to greet at Walmart.

 

[Statman]

Harley is a very sucsessfull company and they will survive I have no doubt. I have issues with them, quality, customer service and yes, the fact that they totally turned their back on those of us who kept them alive during the lean years. Now, if you dont have cubic money they dont even want to talk to you. All you see at the dealer are RUBs and posers.
Their tech is outdated. That being said, the whole point is retro tech. Comparing the Busa to a Harley is apple vs oranges. I have an '82 FXR Shovelhead thet I've owned since '84. It's a great bike, but a whole 'Nother trip.

 

[m_ridgeway]

I do.. There are NO JOBS out there right now that pay enough to live. I work at TSA and am subjected to gamma radiation. Cancer is in the TSA employees future. Right now, getting and keeping ANY job is a must. I'm 53 and NO ONE will hire me due to age. Been there and tried it, even applied for jobs that I was way over qualified for. No one will hire anyone 53 years old unless its to greet at Walmart.

how are you exposed to gamma radiation?

 

[Flicka]

Gamma is some heavy duty stuff. I'm also curious about how the TSA exposes you to it. ???

 

[bjewell]

I've got an '03 FXST and an '07 Busa. I've had the Hayabusa since new. There is no resale for this bike. The bike has 8K on the clock, is 100 percent stock and mint, but I don't think I could get six grand for it and it cost nearly $13K out the door new.

I love my Harley. There's a woman at work who has 98,000 miles on her '97 Dyna and it has never even had the heads off. My Hayabusa has an annoying tingling vibration about 4500 rpm. The horn is junk and the piss-yellow gaugelighting is the same as my '83 GS1100E had. The handlebars are too narrow, putting my hands asleep and the non-canceling turn signals are a real pain. The fake carbon fiber bits on the dash suck and the sidestand has let me down twice. You sit damn high on the bike, but even at 5'7", my knees go to sleep after 100 miles. I have an emotional attachment to my Busa, but no way is the engineering, QC or fun factor superior to my Softail.

They are both great bikes but there is no resale value on Japanese bikes and going into the local Suzuki/Kawasaki/Yamaha dealer is a joke, same as it was fifty years ago.

 

[sixpack577]

I've got an '03 FXST and an '07 Busa. I've had the Hayabusa since new. There is no resale for this bike. The bike has 8K on the clock, is 100 percent stock and mint, but I don't think I could get six grand for it and it cost nearly $13K out the door new.

I love my Harley. There's a woman at work who has 98,000 miles on her '97 Dyna and it has never even had the heads off. My Hayabusa has an annoying tingling vibration about 4500 rpm. The horn is junk and the piss-yellow gaugelighting is the same as my '83 GS1100E had. The handlebars are too narrow, putting my hands asleep and the non-canceling turn signals are a real pain. The fake carbon fiber bits on the dash suck and the sidestand has let me down twice. You sit damn high on the bike, but even at 5'7", my knees go to sleep after 100 miles. I have an emotional attachment to my Busa, but no way is the engineering, QC or fun factor superior to my Softail.

They are both great bikes but there is no resale value on Japanese bikes and going into the local Suzuki/Kawasaki/Yamaha dealer is a joke, same as it was fifty years ago.

The engineering on your Harley is superior to the Busa...Really? With all due respect, obviously the Busa just personally isn't a good fit for you. I'm 3" taller than you and I had to change the bars and seat to make it more comfortable for me. I'm red/green colorblind, so the stock color guages were hard for my eyes to quickly focus on, so $100 to Blueguages and problem solved. Non cancelling turn signals are on almost every sportbike, and the 4500rpm buzz isn't normal and is probably something simple. As for thr kickstand, agreed, it's garbage. My 08(which has the same ergo's as the 99-07)has fallen 3 times. The 1st one was Suzuki's fault, the other 2 are mine for forgetting the stand is junk. As for the horn, it's the same as every other sportbike and is easily replaced. The no resale is because most folks after a Busa want a gen2 and of course a bad economy. 13k new is steep too, again no disrepect, but my 08 new was only 10600 OTD.
No bike is a perfect fit for everyone. The Busa has a huge aftermarket to fix all the things we each dislike(and still cheaper than a Harley). A stock Busa has incredible engineering, it's the reason sportbikes took such a leap forward! It's power, handling, and overall performance was second to none for many years. Now with the gen2 it remains a strong contender.
I'm not knocking your Harley, but all it's good for is cruising around. It's hp/torque, acceleration, handling, braking, ect. cannot even begin to compare to the Busa. The best thing you could do is invest in some pegs, bars, seat, and guage color change. With the Busa fitting you, you'll be able to utilize it's capabilities much more and easier. You might just change your mind about it. And this is just a discussion, I'm not trying to step on your toes.

 

[cqt1414]

I've been on both sides. Not everyone gets a bike because of horsepower only. Crusing is cool. Just as it's nice to have a fast car, it's also nice to have a tough SUV. I like all styles of bikes! (except Honda Fury) :colgate:

 

[jellyrug]

The engineering on your Harley is superior to the Busa...Really? With all due respect, obviously the Busa just personally isn't a good fit for you. I'm 3" taller than you and I had to change the bars and seat to make it more comfortable for me. I'm red/green colorblind, so the stock color guages were hard for my eyes to quickly focus on, so $100 to Blueguages and problem solved. Non cancelling turn signals are on almost every sportbike, and the 4500rpm buzz isn't normal and is probably something simple. As for thr kickstand, agreed, it's garbage. My 08(which has the same ergo's as the 99-07)has fallen 3 times. The 1st one was Suzuki's fault, the other 2 are mine for forgetting the stand is junk. As for the horn, it's the same as every other sportbike and is easily replaced. The no resale is because most folks after a Busa want a gen2 and of course a bad economy. 13k new is steep too, again no disrepect, but my 08 new was only 10600 OTD.
No bike is a perfect fit for everyone. The Busa has a huge aftermarket to fix all the things we each dislike(and still cheaper than a Harley). A stock Busa has incredible engineering, it's the reason sportbikes took such a leap forward! It's power, handling, and overall performance was second to none for many years. Now with the gen2 it remains a strong contender.
I'm not knocking your Harley, but all it's good for is cruising around. It's hp/torque, acceleration, handling, braking, ect. cannot even begin to compare to the Busa. The best thing you could do is invest in some pegs, bars, seat, and guage color change. With the Busa fitting you, you'll be able to utilize it's capabilities much more and easier. You might just change your mind about it. And this is just a discussion, I'm not trying to step on your toes.

I can't for the life of me understand why people compare a Harley to a Hayabusa? ???

Why on earth would you compare a Hummer to a Porche? Same principle.

I also don't understand why we associate some kind of folks with some kind of bikes. There are Harley riders that scare me just by looking at them and there are Busa riders that almost booted me when I stopped on the Harley to chat. However, the sport bike riders I mingle with are great folks and the Harley riders I mingle with are great folks. We have to just select those folks who we feel comfortable with as our friends.

 

[Rodomontade]

That, and the fact that their customer base are now at retirement age and have to save their money for things like Preparation H and cataract surgery.

Now That's Funny!!!!

 

[afterhours]

I've got an '03 FXST and an '07 Busa. I've had the Hayabusa since new. There is no resale for this bike. The bike has 8K on the clock, is 100 percent stock and mint, but I don't think I could get six grand for it and it cost nearly $13K out the door new.

I love my Harley. There's a woman at work who has 98,000 miles on her '97 Dyna and it has never even had the heads off. My Hayabusa has an annoying tingling vibration about 4500 rpm. The horn is junk and the piss-yellow gaugelighting is the same as my '83 GS1100E had. The handlebars are too narrow, putting my hands asleep and the non-canceling turn signals are a real pain. The fake carbon fiber bits on the dash suck and the sidestand has let me down twice. You sit damn high on the bike, but even at 5'7", my knees go to sleep after 100 miles. I have an emotional attachment to my Busa, but no way is the engineering, QC or fun factor superior to my Softail.

They are both great bikes but there is no resale value on Japanese bikes and going into the local Suzuki/Kawasaki/Yamaha dealer is a joke, same as it was fifty years ago.

hahahha.....

That 83 GS was better engineered than you current HD. I am going to be nice, because its obvious you have no clue about what you are talking about.

 

[meductic]

They'll survive.

Worst case scenario they'll go crying to the government again for support like they did in the 1980's.

Then we'll see our beloved 'busa prices rise 45% so Harley can continue churning out loud, obnoxious, relics.

Well said! I couldn't agree more!

 

[meductic]

I have three bikes...Hayabusa Gen I and a Gen II. I also have a 2008 buell 1203 cc lightning. You cannot compare these bike. I will also say that the Buell is a bucket, but I keep it for bombing around town hoping and praying it will get me back home without breaking down! Really, you can not compare Japanese quality to an engine that is manufactured to run off time to begin with..All in all Harley will survive with help from the current US government.

 

[meductic]

hahahha.....

That 83 GS was better engineered than you current HD. I am going to be nice, because its obvious you have no clue about what you are talking about.

Well said! I think he meant 98 km on the odometer.

 

[bjewell]

You morons. I'm 65, got my first bike at 14 and have owned probably 30 bikes since then. I've forgotten more about bikes, bike repair, riding, and a few other things you girls are probably not familiar with, than you will ever know. For reasons too difficult for some of you to understand, both the Busa and the Harley have their own advantages.

One of my good buddies was two-time AMA champion riding for the Wrecking Crew back when Cal was King and we go back and forth, taking the piss out of each other about the merits or lack thereof of various brands. His father raced Indians in the '30s and '40s and barely talked to his son when he rode for H-D. Difference is, when we crack on other bikes, we both know what we are talking about.

Saying that, I love watching the posers on squid bikes in their Joe Rocket leathers wobbling around the Sierra foothills. They look just as dorky as the Harley weenies in their brown H.O.G. vests riding in formation to some dumpy joint behind a trailer park. And don't get me started on Ducati and BMW riders...

Real riders don't give a flying f**k what others ride. We ride, period. I like riding my Harley, same as the other Harleys I've had in the past. I like riding the Busa for what it is as well. Neither is perfect, but to me the Hayabusa is head and shoulders above anything that has come out of Japan, a country I lived in for 20 years. And one of my jobs there was writing advertising copy for Kawasaki and doing the voice-overs for their dealer promo videos of new models.

My Softail is solid as a rock, requires minimal maintenance and is a great platform for a cruise in the hills or up to the coast. The Hayabusa is perfect for picking up a pound of weed in Mendocino and heading back home. That little hump in the back works great if you cut out the plastic frame inside. You can stash a gatt and a bag of weed, no problem.

Engineering? Engineering?? A '58 anodized-guard Fender Jazzmaster was far better "engineered" than a '59 Gibson Les Paul. Jazzmasters that vintage can be had for $6K, a '59 Lester for $250K, your call. Harley has perfected a bike that is faster than 90 percent of the cars on the road and gives a ride many, many, many people love. Maybe you don't know that? Here's a hint: Count the bikes that pass you on a Sunday morning. Harleys out-number all other brands combined by a huge margin. Think maybe those "old geezeers" know something you don't? Think maybe lots of those folks grew up on Bonnevilles, Z1s, CB750s, Katanas?

In the meantime, why don't ya'all go buy a Cycle Wank magazine and head for the john?

 

[bjewell]

Sorry to sound so grumpy. I need my morning coffee and metamucil...

Is I Love Lucy On? Who won at the church bingo last night? Did you see that hottie with the chrome walker? Someone scratched my Crown Vic in the parking lot and my AARP magazine is late again. Drats!!! Time for a nap...