Did Harley shoot itself in the foot?

[aussiekeeper]

That, and the fact that their customer base are now at retirement age and have to save their money for things like Preparation H and cataract surgery.

I my self am a union worker. I make $25+ an hour. I get that pay due to the hazards that I face doing my job. I have the potential to be exposed to a chemical that can cause flu like syptoms if inhaled the right amount. I work around another chemical that gets on your skin and burns if you sweat. The only way to stop the burning is to neutralize it with vinegar. Not to mention the high pressure equiptment that I work around that can cause seroius damage. With the chemicals I am surrounded with at my job, I have the potential to develope some type of illness such as cancer years down the line. These are some reasons why I make the pay that I do. My union makes sure I do get paid according to what I do and the hazards that come with doing my job. Without the union, I know I would make less money. Over 90% of our employees who retire from my job have passed away due to some form of cancer. Many older employees are suffering from a form of cancer or heart disease now. And FYI, my CEO got a 4 million dollar bonus this year. As I can see why you as a business owner can despise a union, please dont impliment that unions are worthless.

So, you are willing to die of cancer for $25.00 an hour? Sounds kind of stupid to me. You could be a Cashier at a union grocer in California and make $27.00 per hour....................

 

[aussiekeeper]

ok...as a union person..i make 23.25 an hour have lost my pension with a heavty 2% contribution to my 401k from the company...my health care went from 32 a week to 120 a week ( i know i blame BCBS company has not decreased thier contribution) we went from 70 workers to 35 when they tried closeing the shop and moving work elsewhere (yes we are STILL the only profit makeing shop in thier group!!!!!) i can spend 16hrs turning a spacer on 50's equiptment that they turn around and sell to ge or pratt n wittney or rolls royce for half a mill....you tell me who is greedy for asking for a wage that is barely allowing me to survive in this economy?????!!!!!! (ps i cant ride my busa because i cant afford a 100$ new tire because gas , power, rent, food...eats my ENTIRE paycheck of a pittiful 500 a week after taxes and insurance and union dues!!!!!!!!) why dont we really deal with the real problem....OUR GOVERMENT and FREE TRADE where other countrys DEFLATE THE VALUE OF THIER DOLLAR AND SUBSIDISE THIER INDUSTRYS TO ARTIFICIALY REDUCE THE PRICE OF THIER PRODUCT SO NO OTHER "FREE TRADE ABIDING" COUNTRY CAN COMPETE......our goverment is only now lieving taxes and fees ACCORDING TO THE FREE TRADE AGREEMENT THAT WE SIGNED AND ABIDE BY LEGALY because your dirty nasty stinking money grubbing UNIONS are fileing lawsuits against said COUNTRYS to ABIDE BY THE LAWS OF THE TREATY THEY SIGNED AND ARE NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT ect FOLLOWING WITH THE PURPOSE TO MAKE YOUR BUISNESS FAIL!!!!

You are always free to get another job that you are happier with. Union people, they think someone owes them.............abolish unions.

 

[m_ridgeway]

You are always free to get another job that you are happier with. Union people, they think someone owes them.............abolish unions.

this makes absolutely no sense. abolishing a union doesnt have anything to do with this. there are still ok unions out there. you talking about "union" people in this way is just as dumb every other sterotype uninformed people like yourself make.

 

[m_ridgeway]

So, you are willing to die of cancer for $25.00 an hour? Sounds kind of stupid to me. You could be a Cashier at a union grocer in California and make $27.00 per hour....................

have you ever lived outside ca? 27.00 in ca is not the same quality of living as 25.00 an hour in ga.

im actually in ca right now and i can tell you not a single cashier at the grocery stores here make that much. and cost of living is higher here than other places ive been.

you can go to work at a fast food joint where my buddy lives in ca, make low 20's an hour, and still will be starving, barely able to pay rent, and then you can go to oklahoma, make 10 hourly and be in the same boat. every area is diff.

the man is making a living for his family and you say its stupid.

 

[aussiekeeper]

this makes absolutely no sense. abolishing a union doesnt have anything to do with this. there are still ok unions out there. you talking about "union" people in this way is just as dumb every other sterotype uninformed people like yourself make.

There are very few good unions, most have elevated their members to lazy fat cat status with too much pay, too much paid time off and overly generous pensions. Hopefully, someone with the intestinal fortitude will step up and get the unions in line with other comparable scenarios. Then the unions and their members cry when the jobs go to other countries. The exact scenario happened in Great Britton in the '60's, the unions refused to bring pay and comps to a fair and reasonable level, so, the motorcycle indutry went away.........before anyone blames it on the product, please remember that the pay and comps were so high that there was no money left for R&D, so they closed......same for their auto industry, ruined because of unions.
The same thing will happen here unless things change............Our post office is a prime example...........among others. I stand by my statement on unions.

 

[m_ridgeway]

There are very few good unions, most have elevated their members to lazy fat cat status with too much pay, too much paid time off and overly generous pensions. Hopefully, someone with the intestinal fortitude will step up and get the unions in line with other comparable scenarios. Then the unions and their members cry when the jobs go to other countries. The exact scenario happened in Great Britton in the '60's, the unions refused to bring pay and comps to a fair and reasonable level, so, the motorcycle indutry went away.........before anyone blames it on the product, please remember that the pay and comps were so high that there was no money left for R&D, so they closed......same for their auto industry, ruined because of unions.
The same thing will happen here unless things change............Our post office is a prime example...........among others. I stand by my statement on unions.

there are about 5 diff locals on this job im on, none of the members have "fat cat" status. we have decent pay, pension, and benefits. its the businesses fault for giving into the unions. if you let someone take advantage of you and your business your just as much at fault for failing as they are for being greedy.

 

[aussiekeeper]

have you ever lived outside ca? 27.00 in ca is not the same quality of living as 25.00 an hour in ga.

im actually in ca right now and i can tell you not a single cashier at the grocery stores here make that much. and cost of living is higher here than other places ive been.

you can go to work at a fast food joint where my buddy lives in ca, make low 20's an hour, and still will be starving, barely able to pay rent, and then you can go to oklahoma, make 10 hourly and be in the same boat. every area is diff.

the man is making a living for his family and you say its stupid.

Yes, I have lived out of Ca. and I very well know of the economic differences.

I wasn't calling him stupid, I was referring to his knowing he had a good chance of getting cancer for $25 an hour. Who would risk their health for ANY price?............

 

[aussiekeeper]

there are about 5 diff locals on this job im on, none of the members have "fat cat" status. we have decent pay, pension, and benefits. its the businesses fault for giving into the unions. if you let someone take advantage of you and your business your just as much at fault for failing as they are for being greedy.

I fully agree with you about businesses giving in to unions, but the unions have become too powerful, the tail is wagging the dog.........

 

[m_ridgeway]

Yes, I have lived out of Ca. and I very well know of the economic differences.

I wasn't calling him stupid, I was referring to his knowing he had a good chance of getting cancer for $25 an hour. Who would risk their health for ANY price?............

people pay for cigarettes and expose themselves to known cancer causing conditions.

there are ALOT of proffesions that allow you exposure to cancer causing agents. some are know, some are known but not proven or tested long enough to be definitive, some are unknown.

 

[m_ridgeway]

I fully agree with you about businesses giving in to unions, but the unions have become too powerful, the tail is wagging the dog.........

not all. my union and several others i work around, have reasonable contracts. alot of our guys work non union when we cant work union. we dont get barred/banned/penalized etc. they understand we cant wait around for them. if they didnt i would be out a long time ago.

seems most of the union hate is directed at auto workers. when i can name off several that never get press good or bad, have been around for a long time, and the union contractors have continually been profitable.

 

[knobby]

A Harley is a nice ride if your frame of reference is a minivan but if you happen to have rode a modern motorcycle from any other manufacturer well a Harley is very lame.For what its worth I heard from a industry rep that they had something like 36000 unsold units in warehousing.
Back IN 2000 I bought one of the first twin cam FLSTF very disappointing even as a second bike with a 01 GSXR1000 for a stablemate my happiest day with my fatboy was the day I sold it.

 

[afterhours]

BUELL is going to be able to build a bike without the HD anchor dragging him down, he will eventually come out ahead on this.

the Aquisition of BUELL never made sense, HD dealers that I visited never tried to move them, and actually tried to up-sell you to "a real motorcycle".....one of the $17k or more museum pieces with cool names like "lowrider" and "fat-boy"....they had no desire, to try and sell a sportbike.

I had one dealership tell me HD Finance turned me down on a BUELL....but would in fact OK my loan for a V-Rod, are you F'ing kidding me. "sorry sir, we can't finance you, unless you want to pay $10k more".

I have a question...."why does a new HD cost so much"? i mean there is little R&D. It the same basic models for the last two decades.

 

[BusaWizard]

Well lets hope them the best, I would hate to see them go under. Just think of the lives that would be affected from this. Nothing wrong with Harley, if that's what you want go for it.

 

[2Wheels2Live]

Yep harley did Eric Buell 13 years of disservice by holding him back when he could have been out there building REAL american sportbikes, instead of ultra-trick frames, suspension and brake systems built around 100 year old tractor motor technology pathetic really. We know he can make a kick-azz sportbike, he just needs a kick-azz engine to put in it
And I agree, I've heard over and over harley dealerships never tried to sell Buells, they always tried to move folks away from the Buells towards the Harleys. I actually test rode a couple Buells myself, and besides the lack of power, heavy engine, and super low redline+no revability, I liked them alot. With a different motor in them I would've bought one without hesitation. Handled and braked awesome
Here's to you creating a new kick-azz american sportbike Eric

 

[Vonderbach]

I my self am a union worker. I make $25+ an hour. I get that pay due to the hazards that I face doing my job. I have the potential to be exposed to a chemical that can cause flu like syptoms if inhaled the right amount. I work around another chemical that gets on your skin and burns if you sweat. The only way to stop the burning is to neutralize it with vinegar. Not to mention the high pressure equiptment that I work around that can cause seroius damage. With the chemicals I am surrounded with at my job, I have the potential to develope some type of illness such as cancer years down the line. These are some reasons why I make the pay that I do. My union makes sure I do get paid according to what I do and the hazards that come with doing my job. Without the union, I know I would make less money. Over 90% of our employees who retire from my job have passed away due to some form of cancer. Many older employees are suffering from a form of cancer or heart disease now. And FYI, my CEO got a 4 million dollar bonus this year. As I can see why you as a business owner can despise a union, please dont impliment that unions are worthless.

As I said earlier, I wasn't suggesting that all union workers were overpaid. However, in your particular case, I have to wonder why (a) there are no lawsuits pending for a 90% premature death rate at your company and (b) why you are still working there? If 90% of your fellow employees die prematurely, I would find another line of work. McDonalds would be looking pretty good at that point. Perhaps I'm missing something.

 

[Ctatyk]

The Harley dealership where I used to live must have been different. They had Buells on the showroom floor and the salesmen were more than happy to talk about them & show them off. But, it is a very modern dealership and the salesmen are young rather than old dudes. Maybe that had something to do with it.

 

[chrisjp]

You are always free to get another job that you are happier with. Union people, they think someone owes them.............abolish unions.

oh i am happy with my job...i am pointing out those who think unions are "fat cats" needs to understand whole picture of how much we actually earn vs what we pay out...and if i can work at a casino for 27$ an hour...well the cost of living must be really high there...and also im pointing out...our goverment does not enforce the free trade agreement and makes it unafordable for US buisness's to compete with china who subsidises thier companys in order to deflate costs and run everyone else out of buisness. the statement of finding work someplace else i agree with...but why would i go someplace else where i get worse pay and boss's who use you like a sweat shop. i have been there...i made 10$ hr working 50 hrs a week for shops who yelled screamed heck even threw things at you in order for them to "make more profit"...i hung in till i could get my experience and pad my resume to land a job where i can hold tight tolerances with older machines and the company understands and gets paid well for our SKILL. but like all companys its all about the stockholders and bottom line and ceo's so as i said for harley....skilled labor gets cut, pensions get cut, benifits get cut, all in the name of the 'economy" but once it picks up you NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER get those benifits back..and ill bet in a year they close the plant anyway...its how AMERICAN CORPERATE GREED WORKS. ps...if you think union are corrupt....name how many union boss's vs....ENRON....OR THE REST OF THE BANK BAIL OUT.....forgot those CORRUPT LAW BREAKING FAT CAT INDIVIDUALS THAT DIRECTLY EFFECTED YOUR BUISNESS AND PROFIT!!! so...in closeing..remember unions are the last bastion of protection we as americans have from being fleeced by foriegn goverments and our own and the companys we work for so we can actually afford the decent living we deserve and our skill comands. ps buissness owners..do you offer more benifits to make your worker happyer and more productive because you understand they have familys to support too...when you have the chance for higher profit?....if not...you as greedy as them.....what happend to mom and pop buisnesses that only cared about making a fair income and PROTECTING thier employees and treating them like family..becauase with out them thier familys would not be earning anything!!!

 

[afterhours]

this is america.....

we have the freedom to work were we wish. If you are unhappy, then leave. I truly am tired of hearing about "corporate greed". We all ant as much as we can, go to school and get an MBA if you want to make what those on Wall St. make.

maybe you are in the "one" union that does not protect the slackers, that does not protect the lazy and has union leadership that is not making 6 figure salaries....

cool, but don't act as if all unions are like that. we all have experience with lazy union employees, some of us have even lost money because we have had to work with the lazy union worker.....I have sat at loading docks for hours because the Union forklift drivers were not allowed to fuel up a forklift, or they took two hours to complete a job that should have taken 40 minutes....making me have to waste time and fuel on LA freeways during rush hour, costing me money.

as much as I would like believe your account of Union life, its actual Union members that are the biggest example of why Unions hurt business.

 

[red1100cc]

ARRR is it a if i wanna talk about motorcycles?

i've never ridden a Buell, but i have ridden alot of harleys and never thought the engine was up to it. i have one fella here in town with a Buell that bonds with me because "we both ride sportbikes." i like him and have never "smoked him" so he has no idea how slow his bike really is. but its nice and he likes it so i don't pop his bubble.

why is it that no american motorcycle company has made a good 4 banger? i mean really?! when the honda 740 came out then the Z1 900, and so on and so on, the 4's have always ruled the road. almost every company has a good 4 cilinder. even BMW as reluctant as they were to adopt the design now leads the field, and they started with a snitzel verson of the harley.

i know im bias, but maybe every bike should have a Busa engine!:stoopid:

 

[2Wheels2Live]

ARRR is it a if i wanna talk about motorcycles?

i've never ridden a Buell, but i have ridden alot of harleys and never thought the engine was up to it. i have one fella here in town with a Buell that bonds with me because "we both ride sportbikes." i like him and have never "smoked him" so he has no idea how slow his bike really is. but its nice and he likes it so i don't pop his bubble.

why is it that no american motorcycle company has made a good 4 banger? i mean really?! when the honda 740 came out then the Z1 900, and so on and so on, the 4's have always ruled the road. almost every company has a good 4 cilinder. even BMW as reluctant as they were to adopt the design now leads the field, and they started with a snitzel verson of the harley.

i know im bias, but maybe every bike should have a Busa engine!:stoopid:

I think they're afraid to go head to head with the japanese in the inline four department.....the rising sun guys have really got those inline fours figured out, and now so does BMW I still think Eric Buell will come up with something cool engine wise to stick in his awesome frames. Anything will be better than a harley engine The Rotax V-twins he put in the last version of the Buell were very good motors. They put out competitive power to the other sportbike V-twins in their class, they were light, dependable, just an all around good motor for a V-twin. Maybe thats why Harley dissed him like they did? lol The barracuda was going to put out some serious power, it would have been a for real sportbike if it would have been produced, its a shame it got shelved