Did Harley shoot itself in the foot?

....Everybody sippin' on the haterade...

As to your posts Vonderbach - have you ever read a Glen Beck book? My dad gave me Arguing with Idiots and it talks about unions in it - pretty interesting read....

I would love to see the US make a competitive inline 4 cylinder sportbike. That would be a dream to me - even if it is a little slower than a jap bike. Hell, I would like the US to be competitive in ANYTHING other than global bullying. :whistle:
 
You morons. I'm 65, got my first bike at 14 and have owned probably 30 bikes since then. I've forgotten more about bikes, bike repair, riding, and a few other things you girls are probably not familiar with, than you will ever know. For reasons too difficult for some of you to understand, both the Busa and the Harley have their own advantages.

One of my good buddies was two-time AMA champion riding for the Wrecking Crew back when Cal was King and we go back and forth, taking the piss out of each other about the merits or lack thereof of various brands. His father raced Indians in the '30s and '40s and barely talked to his son when he rode for H-D. Difference is, when we crack on other bikes, we both know what we are talking about.

Saying that, I love watching the posers on squid bikes in their Joe Rocket leathers wobbling around the Sierra foothills. They look just as dorky as the Harley weenies in their brown H.O.G. vests riding in formation to some dumpy joint behind a trailer park. And don't get me started on Ducati and BMW riders...

Real riders don't give a flying f**k what others ride. We ride, period. I like riding my Harley, same as the other Harleys I've had in the past. I like riding the Busa for what it is as well. Neither is perfect, but to me the Hayabusa is head and shoulders above anything that has come out of Japan, a country I lived in for 20 years. And one of my jobs there was writing advertising copy for Kawasaki and doing the voice-overs for their dealer promo videos of new models.

My Softail is solid as a rock, requires minimal maintenance and is a great platform for a cruise in the hills or up to the coast. The Hayabusa is perfect for picking up a pound of weed in Mendocino and heading back home. That little hump in the back works great if you cut out the plastic frame inside. You can stash a gatt and a bag of weed, no problem.

Engineering? Engineering?? A '58 anodized-guard Fender Jazzmaster was far better "engineered" than a '59 Gibson Les Paul. Jazzmasters that vintage can be had for $6K, a '59 Lester for $250K, your call. Harley has perfected a bike that is faster than 90 percent of the cars on the road and gives a ride many, many, many people love. Maybe you don't know that? Here's a hint: Count the bikes that pass you on a Sunday morning. Harleys out-number all other brands combined by a huge margin. Think maybe those "old geezeers" know something you don't? Think maybe lots of those folks grew up on Bonnevilles, Z1s, CB750s, Katanas?

In the meantime, why don't ya'all go buy a Cycle Wank magazine and head for the john?

so then smoke a dub, and relax gramps.....I have no problem with your personal taste, we all have bikes that we like. I personally get a chubby thinking of H-1's and RD's....personal preference is cool.

However, to say your HD is better engineered than a 'Busa is factually incorrect. Sometime in the 1970's HD decided it would be cheaper, and more profitable to sell an image. At one time they built world class motorcycles, but today its as if the bikes are just rolling billboards to sell T-shirts,jackets,boots,jeans,bandanas, jewelry and every god awfull accessory that you can bolt onto a motorcycle....at a highly inflated price.
 
Back to the original post - Harley is facing a generational paradigm shift in riding preference. If your first bike is a Honda you're likely to buy hondas for the rest of your life. If your first bike is a Jap bike you're likely to buy jap bikes the rest of your life. Most younger folks can't afford 18 K harley's. They can swing a 6-8 K 600 cc entry bike. Once they buy they don't go back in general. Harley isn't adding as many young first time buyers as they need to survive long term. And they have fully exploited every niche except maybe women. Agusta and Buell were poor attempts to crack open markets they have little experience in and little corporate culture to support. Their brand is withering on the vine (generational speaking). I believe they will focus on new concept bikes for the young first time buyers - not withstanding the relative merits of Unions - but they need to get offshore in order to exploit the younger market (price point) or they will die. Did they shoot themselves in the foot - not exactly but they definately need to regroup.
 
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I think they need to drop the prices on the bikes. They are very, very expensive. They could put the XR1200 engine in a Sportster. They could even put a VRod engine in a light wieght bike. They have a lot of the equipment to offer some serious niche bikes, they just have to do it.
 
Don't think I ever said a Harley was better engineered than a Suzuki. I did, in fact, say that there were shortcomings to both bikes. And there were great points too. afterhours, did you ever own an H-1? I had an original white one with the blue stripe. I still have a scar on my elbow from when it wheelied me into a phone pole. I also had an RD350 I pulled out of a shed and fixed up. That was a good bike although I preferred my Suzuki Titan to both of them.

The few bikes I have regreted not owning -- a Black Bomber 450, a Yamaha 305 Big Bear and maybe a black-framed Super Hawk still stick in my mind. I never owned a Cushman 60 with a two-speed and a Husky motor. That's one I still want...
 
You morons. I'm 65, got my first bike at 14 and have owned probably 30 bikes since then. I've forgotten more about bikes, bike repair, riding, and a few other things you girls are probably not familiar with, than you will ever know. For reasons too difficult for some of you to understand, both the Busa and the Harley have their own advantages.

One of my good buddies was two-time AMA champion riding for the Wrecking Crew back when Cal was King and we go back and forth, taking the piss out of each other about the merits or lack thereof of various brands. His father raced Indians in the '30s and '40s and barely talked to his son when he rode for H-D. Difference is, when we crack on other bikes, we both know what we are talking about.

Saying that, I love watching the posers on squid bikes in their Joe Rocket leathers wobbling around the Sierra foothills. They look just as dorky as the Harley weenies in their brown H.O.G. vests riding in formation to some dumpy joint behind a trailer park. And don't get me started on Ducati and BMW riders...

Real riders don't give a flying f**k what others ride. We ride, period. I like riding my Harley, same as the other Harleys I've had in the past. I like riding the Busa for what it is as well. Neither is perfect, but to me the Hayabusa is head and shoulders above anything that has come out of Japan, a country I lived in for 20 years. And one of my jobs there was writing advertising copy for Kawasaki and doing the voice-overs for their dealer promo videos of new models.

My Softail is solid as a rock, requires minimal maintenance and is a great platform for a cruise in the hills or up to the coast. The Hayabusa is perfect for picking up a pound of weed in Mendocino and heading back home. That little hump in the back works great if you cut out the plastic frame inside. You can stash a gatt and a bag of weed, no problem.

Engineering? Engineering?? A '58 anodized-guard Fender Jazzmaster was far better "engineered" than a '59 Gibson Les Paul. Jazzmasters that vintage can be had for $6K, a '59 Lester for $250K, your call. Harley has perfected a bike that is faster than 90 percent of the cars on the road and gives a ride many, many, many people love. Maybe you don't know that? Here's a hint: Count the bikes that pass you on a Sunday morning. Harleys out-number all other brands combined by a huge margin. Think maybe those "old geezeers" know something you don't? Think maybe lots of those folks grew up on Bonnevilles, Z1s, CB750s, Katanas?

In the meantime, why don't ya'all go buy a Cycle Wank magazine and head for the john?

Yo Gramps, I enjoy my Harley too, but faster than 90% of the cars on the road?????

Tell ya what, I'll take you on in Wifeys Prius, if there are twisties you will be behind, if it's a straight, I just need a mile or so to get up to speed and you will be behind again.
 
Don't think I ever said a Harley was better engineered than a Suzuki. I did, in fact, say that there were shortcomings to both bikes. And there were great points too. afterhours, did you ever own an H-1? I had an original white one with the blue stripe. I still have a scar on my elbow from when it wheelied me into a phone pole. I also had an RD350 I pulled out of a shed and fixed up. That was a good bike although I preferred my Suzuki Titan to both of them.

The few bikes I have regreted not owning -- a Black Bomber 450, a Yamaha 305 Big Bear and maybe a black-framed Super Hawk still stick in my mind. I never owned a Cushman 60 with a two-speed and a Husky motor. That's one I still want...

"I have an emotional attachment to my Busa, but no way is the engineering, QC or fun factor superior to my Softail." your words.....but I am just busting balls....lol

I rescued an H1 from an idiot that tried to turn it into a 3 wheel sand drag ATV.....the frame was junk so I bought another, it was my first frame-up custom bike....and she almost blew me and my garage up.

I have a soft spot in my heart for :
RD's
RZ's
Air cooled Kawasaki's Z-1, KZ's and GPZ's...especially GPZ1100's
 
Back to the original topic....

HD, needs to build entry level bikes....and tell the dealers to not insult potential customers like the did with guys looking at Buells, or how they laugh at you when you look at the sportster and call it a "chick bike".

Ducati sells a crap load of monsters. why could they make an HD version 70-80hp, lots of torque, wide wheels and some decent brakes....and a real frame that could handle some turns.
 
Funny thing for me is that hths is the Hayabusa place, yet some of you guys are all over Harleys... If you want to talk about them go here:

HDForums.com Harley Davidson Forums

That place is huge. And no one there talks about Hayabusas, they don't even exist in their minds. Seems like every time I come around here -- and I've been on board for years even if I don't post much -- there's some thread or another dissing Harleys.

Oops! They're having a seniors discount day and Red lobster. Just love their 99-cent fruit cocktail and bottomless cup of coffee. Gotta put my teeth back in and get on down the road. Guess I'll ride Big Red, the waitresses always crack up when I pull in the parking lot...

Hayabusa.jpg
 
I like the room for a pound a weed part!!!LOL

Nothing like payin todays prices for a bike designed in 1918 or whenever it came out!!

Im all for the American way ect ect but theres alot of parts on a harley now not built in the USA...thye leak,shake, break down,dont start half the time dont stop all the time,dont turn look old when there new ect..not really sure why people like them!!!

with all due respect....Im a little older myself and old enough to know I don't want any of that when I want to go for a ride!!!!!

Ride a hardly ride the best ride a mile push the rest!!!:laugh:
 
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I will say the HD's are neat bikes to look at and to have the so called lifestyle of the HD but as far as perfomance and technology goes, they suck.They sound like ass especially without baffles, the vibrate like hell and feel like riding a brick.Non too impressed really.The Buells were neat but an entry level bike that was cramped and small in my opinion.I love my busa and all the other suzukis I have owned in the past.Would love to build a chopper for looks but why.I do however like the Victory bikes.Real nice and a fasr step above a HD anyday.
 
Actually my Hayabusa vibrates in a much more irritating way than my FXST. I vastly prefer the suspension of my Hayabusa, but the bike feels top heavy for me around town. Add that to the knee pain from being scrunched up and it isn't the most comfortable bike after 100 miles -- at least for me.

Like it or not, they sell far more Harleys than all import bikes combined I would imagine. Some Harely riders are cool, some not. But no one can deny that Harely riders are as loyal as they come and not because they are dumb. Then again, some are, most aren't, but they love their bikes.

We should all share the road. I don't plan on selling my Harley or my Hayabusa anytime soon. Both are the best for what they are designed to do.

Another kumbaya moment brought to you free of charge...
 
Nice socks, are those 65 years old as well? If you think you Hayabusa vibrates more than your Harley, you might want to change the oil and maybe balance your tires. The Hayabusa feels top heavy because it is not made to go 20 mph like your Harley, it will get more stabile with speed. You probably would feel more confident on it if you weren't wearing sandals.
 
I just bought a harley grille to go with my harley tool box that matches my harley socks while wearing my harley speedos that hide my harley tattoo. Harley is nothing but free range ride to live, live to ride imaging. its a bike, based on 80 year old technology and sold as a lifestyle accessory. I think its funny riding my bike to a local biker bar here in town, I think you have to frollow the strct dress code of leather harley jacket and boots to be admitted (jokingly of course).
 
If I ever have a brain fart and spend like 25k on a P.O.S. with 1960's technology, someone hunt me down and shoot me. Thank you in advance.:laugh:
 
to compare busa's to harley's doesn't make sense. harley v-twin cruisers/tourers should be compared to jap v-twins cruisers/tourers, both are good bikes however I've found kawasaki's are a better value. just my preference.

I do agree with the point some have made, "why attack harley davidsons?" I love riding all types of bikes and enjoy riding with ALL motorcycles. The more motorcycles on the road the better.

If you don't like harley's then don't buy/ride them. Would you prefer all harley's on the road were replaced with a distracted women in an SUV on her cell phone putting on makeup while lane changing?

As motorcyclist, we should support each other regardless of the emblem on the gas tank!
 
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