....and that's if everyone plays ball which we all know won't happen, many countries have more pressing matters to resolve than going green...
EV vehicles
- Thread starter Bumblebee
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TallTom
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Elon himself knows the math. He stated that if by tomorrow there was no ICE to buy and it was only EVs, it would take 25 years to be all EV on the roads.
I think Musk's mind lives in some utopian world...and not reality....
But perhaps if everything was set up and geared towards EV only, he may be right....
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TallTom
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He did say IF. Did not imply ICE would be outlawed tomorrow. I think he is just stating the fact that realistically it's going to a lot longer than 25 years.
I was speaking to a neighbor who works in an international company and recently he was in Beijing.....
He said the transformation there is simply amazing....the Chinese government has implemented many green policies since the pandemic. He noted the overall cleanliness of the city and other cities he visited. Rivers and streams where only a few years ago were cesspools are clean and clear with abundant wild life....the streets are impeccably clean and they have banned horn honking in cities unless there is an emergency.
There are lots of EV there but lots of charging stations although most cities have no car zones where only foot and bicycle traffic is allowed. He said a big difference there is people generally live near their work so commuting is very low.
He said the transformation there is simply amazing....the Chinese government has implemented many green policies since the pandemic. He noted the overall cleanliness of the city and other cities he visited. Rivers and streams where only a few years ago were cesspools are clean and clear with abundant wild life....the streets are impeccably clean and they have banned horn honking in cities unless there is an emergency.
There are lots of EV there but lots of charging stations although most cities have no car zones where only foot and bicycle traffic is allowed. He said a big difference there is people generally live near their work so commuting is very low.
I don't know anyone who designs buildings, cars, mass transit, or ships who isn't completely focused on replacing the ICE platform. We are even going after HVAC systems and now making everything electric as that's the energy source we can make the cleanest. We see the impact of climate change in the design industry on a daily basis. The tip of the spear is monster storms and flooding, which is the symptom of an environment dangerously out of balance. The question of the cost of electrification is a non-issue. The cost of doing nothing is unimaginably huge, as we are already spending billions a year on super tornadoes, gigantic hurricanes in odd places, and massive wildfires.
This is easier in many Asian cultures. They are not so wrapped up in self-indulgence and have a fundamental "we" perspective (my opinion, but I lived there for 6 years). So comparing us to them is a fundamental disconnect. We do things out of greed, and arguably that is a much more effective motivation than group sacrifice. That's what I don't get here - there are fortunes to be made in greening America just as there were in the agricultural and industrial revolutions.
Interestingly, I don't think ICE vehicles like bikes will disappear. They don't cause a significant amount of pollution. But getting gas will make riding a costly hobby. The guy with the Tesla motorcycle will wonder why you ride a Hayabusa when there aren't any gas stations!
This is easier in many Asian cultures. They are not so wrapped up in self-indulgence and have a fundamental "we" perspective (my opinion, but I lived there for 6 years). So comparing us to them is a fundamental disconnect. We do things out of greed, and arguably that is a much more effective motivation than group sacrifice. That's what I don't get here - there are fortunes to be made in greening America just as there were in the agricultural and industrial revolutions.
Interestingly, I don't think ICE vehicles like bikes will disappear. They don't cause a significant amount of pollution. But getting gas will make riding a costly hobby. The guy with the Tesla motorcycle will wonder why you ride a Hayabusa when there aren't any gas stations!
Honestly, IF humans are the source of these massive storms (there are scientists that can prove otherwise due to historical data), changing everything to EV even right now, today will do very little to curb them....
EV still need a source for charging and that source in itself pollutes....add to this a total dependency on electricity will be a HUGE undertaking...our power grids are shaky now even here in a first world country...I can only imagine the cost and effort it would take to bring a place like India to this standard and this is only one of many examples. EV isn't efficient in colder climates either, people are reporting huge drops in range due to the cold.
The manufacture and recharging of EV is a polluting process, as bad as ICE, the ONLY advantage EV has is there won't need to be as much petroleum made available to the public.
One day there will be a necessity to veer away from ICE, but that day is long into the future.
I'm not anti-EV but I'm also a realist, if there was a viable, reliable and efficient EV out there, I'd be more inclined towards this tech.
I politely say you are mistaken, my friend. There are tripping points in our degradation of the environment. What is going on is observable and objectively provable. Ignoring it is suicide.
I wonder if the tipping point has been reached before.....?
Egypt used to be a lush, green region, now it is desert, even other deserts were lush and green at one point...the polar caps used to be tropical, land mountains were under water at one point...is there a natural evolution of global change already in motion?
Where does man's meddling fit into all this I wonder?
If we have such a huge impact on global environmental change (and I believe we do) converting to EV won't change our impact as it is just as polluting as ICE and in some ways more so if a robust recycling plan isn't implemented and adhered to by everyone-having a mountain of depleted Li batteries laying around isn't so good either.
mark3evo
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Temperate 'Tipping Point' it depends which year you start the clock ticking. 19th century we get 1.5c rise, take it from AD1100 and we are cooler now
it takes decades to bring down CO2 and why would we do that, focus on NOX and Methane instead, these are 100x more greenhouse gas than CO2
TallTom
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Come on man.......you can't present alternate facts!
I honestly think there could be more done to ICE to make them more efficient and less polluting...
Even legislating zero modifications to the emission systems and perhaps implementing E testing with vehicles not meeting those tests being removed from the roads..
I for one would gladly accept a zero modification law if it meant I could continue driving an ICE vehicle.
Even legislating zero modifications to the emission systems and perhaps implementing E testing with vehicles not meeting those tests being removed from the roads..
I for one would gladly accept a zero modification law if it meant I could continue driving an ICE vehicle.
Totally seat of the pants on my part but I don't think alterations to cars are that big a deal. I few alter them but more drive them and change the oil. Besides, I believe it's already against the law to alter the emissions systems. Like I said before, bikes are such a small part of the problem so what we do to them doesn't matter. Note however that the Euro certifications are starting to make ECUs virtually un-hackable.
I agree reducing methane is a good thing and may buy time on the CO2.
I agree reducing methane is a good thing and may buy time on the CO2.
michael parris heuberger
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Hi. I would say that we are out of time now. As AOC said and had a plan that would work as she is the smartest person in the world. We made this mess we must stop riding our bikes now. Oh I think the we are still in the lastI ICE Age that may be the realson that is why it is getting warmer. This has happened many times before and will keep going on.
Good point! Thanks for spending the time out of your life it took you to write that...
I'd say solar power generation isn't the way to go at least around here.....so far in December we've had 8 hours of direct sunlight....it's been cloudy most of the month...I only know this through my neighbor who is working with a solar company right now installing their wiring for them.
He also said last winter was the cloudiest winter in 70 yrs....the power generation of the solar farm he is servicing was dismal but they are hoping for a better year this year.
He also said last winter was the cloudiest winter in 70 yrs....the power generation of the solar farm he is servicing was dismal but they are hoping for a better year this year.
TallTom
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I think you're highlighting what the reality is. Not everyone can use the same alternative solutions. I am very green aware. I'm also aware an electric car is not a singular path for everyone. But it can be a bigger part for some parts of the world.
There are some parts of the world where wind generation makes a solid contribution. That same location may not have a charging station for an EV for 100 miles. I went to Amarillo Texas. There were miles of windfarms there. Texas being fossil fuels friendly, found space for wind there. Fossil fuel gas stations were 200 miles apart in that area
Solar will do best where the sun shines most of the time. PV technology needs to get better.
EVs will do best in populated areas, high traffic, lots of charging station options. LA and Atlanta would be examples that come to mind.
Add all of these up as a whole. Rather than put your eggs into EVs.
I personally think the "feel good" people will buy an EV with the whole thought of saving the planet when in reality they are just substituting one polluter for another that doesn't show pollution at a tail pipe..
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