EV vehicles

[Bumblebee]

I think it's over saturation. China had a huge automotive year in 2023, expanding exports exponentially, by 60 something percent. Too much too soon, coupled with a poor Chinese economy has caused a bursting of the Chinese auto bubble, not totally unlike the dot com bubble bursting in 2000. I read some say it was interest rates, but it sure looks like a saturation of a market that people didn't think had boundaries. Read about what happened then and look at internet businesses and sales today.

It's interesting to me how polarizing the EV discussion is. I read another forum that has a thread on it as well, and there the pro EV people outnumber the others inversely to this forum. Like here, it's a long, involved discussion with plenty of disagreements.

Driving home today I pulled up next to a person on a Zero motorcycle, the first one I've seen on the street. Looked pretty cool. I put down my window so I could hear it take off and I did hear a whirring noise, but pretty darn quiet for a bike.

I rode a Zero bike a few years ago, it was an enduro styled bike and was pretty stellar except the range.....something like 60 miles...the owner devised a carrier for a second battery but it was a win/lose prospect as the battery added more weight.

I've been on a couple forums that were polarized over EVs as well....in the ones I was in most agreed that EV are better suited for an urban environment and not rural or for traveling distances.

One issue with having an EV in an urban setting here in Canada is cold saps the power out of them...that and the commute distances are vast....I couldn't imagine being stuck in an EV in stand still traffic for an hour or more trying to stay warm (or cool in the summer) and expecting the battery to maintain it.

 

[Oz22]

One of the biggest issues with these "knock off" brands is getting any sort of service done...with all the new and complicated tech in vehicles these days, having a robust service plan is important...

And it's certainly not limited to these mobile ipads. A youtuber down here, John Cadogin, whom is a prick to listen to but knows his stuff warns everyone to keep away from Mini, Alphas, Citron, and a host of other dago cars for that self same reason, parts and reliable service. For cars I'm only Japanese now and for my bikes too aside from the beema. It is German, and luckily the reliable model. Servicing is cheap too unlike Dukati.

 

[Oz22]

I've been on a couple forums that were polarized over EVs as well....in the ones I was in most agreed that EV are better suited for an urban environment and not rural or for traveling distances.

I'm a numbers guy, if I ever had an emotion it passed without notice. Since only about 1% of the driving public actually have an ev, and most have an ice car as well, I have to assume that the inflated numbers of people giving positive rhetoric are simply mesmerized by the marketing and are not talking from personal experience. Call it the 'Greta' factor, where half the world hung on every word that came out of the mouth of a mentally challenged 16yo. Then of course the actual owners of an ev have to protect their ego, we all do this. Then there is the fact that most ev owners haven't owned for that long! They haven't experienced battery degradation yet, or servicing woes.

Reminds me of the plethora of positive reviews on many sites, people singing the praises of a fridge or a camera that have owned for 3 days. The 5* reviews typically take the form "Fantastic people to deal with, fast delivery, great product" I never read positive reviews, why would I? I wouldn't be reading reviews at all unless I wanted to buy the damn thing. I read the negatives and then see if I can live with the known issues. It's why I'll never own a KTM. I like cycling, but I hate long unplanned walks.

 

[Red05]

And it's certainly not limited to these mobile ipads. A youtuber down here, John Cadogin, whom is a prick to listen to but knows his stuff warns everyone to keep away from Mini, Alphas, Citron, and a host of other dago cars for that self same reason, parts and reliable service. For cars I'm only Japanese now and for my bikes too aside from the beema. It is German, and luckily the reliable model. Servicing is cheap too unlike Dukati.

Dago cars? You’re either Italian or an a$$hole
Edit: an offensive individual

 

[Bumblebee]

Dago cars? You’re either Italian or an a$$hole
Edit: an offensive individual

I had to go look up the word "Dago" I've heard it before but never knew what it meant.

The dictionary called it an offensive slang ethnic slur.....

Not cool........

 

[Red05]

I had to go look up the word "Dago" I've heard it before but never knew what it meant.

The dictionary called it an offensive slang ethnic slur.....

Not cool........

Both my father’s parents were born in Italy. I’ve heard other Italians use it in reference to themselves; I don’t like it used in any way.
I guess the censor here doesn’t catch everything.
Never mind that I ride an Aprilia lol

 

[Bumblebee]

Both my father’s parents were born in Italy. I’ve heard other Italians use it in reference to themselves; I don’t like it used in any way.
I guess the censor here doesn’t catch everything.

I don't blame you....

I didn't equate the word to Italy as there was another derogatory word they used to use to describe Italians when I was a kid......there used to be a few WW2 veterans who fought in Italy who used it often...

 

[Red05]

I don't blame you....

I didn't equate the word to Italy as there was another derogatory word they used to use to describe Italians when I was a kid......there used to be a few WW2 veterans who fought in Italy who used it often...

All’s fair in love and war, although love I’m not so sure about

 

[Bumblebee]

........come to think of it, we have at least one poster from Italy here so avoiding these kinds of derogatory terms would be welcomed....

 

[Oz22]

........come to think of it, we have at least one poster from Italy here so avoiding these kinds of derogatory terms would be welcomed....

Well certainly, but it's not an offensive term down here anymore, more a term of acceptance. But I don't want to get embroiled in a political correctness hearing with the speech police, I understand Americans are very sensitive about words and gender and race so I'll be more conformative to what is accepted as normal up there in the future. I actually didn't read red's post, I have him/her/they on ignore I am afraid. Not that I'm saying him/her/they are in anyway different than anyone else on here BB, it was just a personal choice to avoid being triggered you know.

 

[Red05]

Well certainly, but it's not an offensive term down here anymore, more a term of acceptance. But I don't want to get embroiled in a political correctness hearing with the speech police, I understand Americans are very sensitive about words and gender and race so I'll be more conformative to what is accepted as normal up there in the future. I actually didn't read red's post, I have him/her/they on ignore I am afraid. Not that I'm saying him/her/they are in anyway different than anyone else on here BB, it was just a personal choice to avoid being triggered you know.

Complete crap. I immediately wondered about that, and contacted my very good friend in New Zealand. He responded with yes, it's used often, along with plenty of other derogatory terms used by closed minded people. Same in Australia. He's too nice to say bigoted. Racism is indeed a universal language. I'm glad Oz22 has me on ignore; I have nothing to say to him. It boggles the mind that we can't type a s s h o l e on here, even in personal messages, but crap like that is allowed. Makes me wonder about a lot of things.

 

[Oz22]

America's EV boom goes bust! Lithium and nickel producers begin mass layoffs and pause multi-billion-dollar projects as US says no to electric car push​

Slipping EV demand forces lithium facilities to pause production

The slowing demand for electric vehicles has forced lithium mines to pause construction and lay off workers en masse. Car makers are offering discounts for EVs to increase sales.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Bumblebee]

Well certainly, but it's not an offensive term down here anymore, more a term of acceptance. But I don't want to get embroiled in a political correctness hearing with the speech police, I understand Americans are very sensitive about words and gender and race so I'll be more conformative to what is accepted as normal up there in the future. I actually didn't read red's post, I have him/her/they on ignore I am afraid. Not that I'm saying him/her/they are in anyway different than anyone else on here BB, it was just a personal choice to avoid being triggered you know.

This is an American based forum......and is internationally viewed and has members from all across the world from different races, religions and ethnic origins....

It's not a case of being over-sensitive but more being inclusive. For the most part we are pretty respectful on this site and this needs to be the norm, not the exception.

Our love of motorcycles is the driving force behind being here above all else in my opinion for what it's worth.

Forums such as this are very unique in today's internet world and we have to do our best to protect it on behalf of Cap and the moderators. They allow us to police ourselves.

I don't have anyone on "ignore" as in many cases although we don't always agree on things, I like to see other people's point of view...

Not sure if anyone has me on "ignore" but I imagine a few wish they did....LOL!

 

[Bumblebee]

Complete crap. I immediately wondered about that, and contacted my very good friend in New Zealand. He responded with yes, it's used often, along with plenty of other derogatory terms used by closed minded people. Same in Australia. He's too nice to say bigoted. Racism is indeed a universal language. I'm glad Oz22 has me on ignore; I have nothing to say to him. It boggles the mind that we can't type a s s h o l e on here, even in personal messages, but crap like that is allowed. Makes me wonder about a lot of things.

I would imagine like myself, the system doesn't recognize the word.....it's not one I've heard before.

We are privileged to have a forum such as this and I for one will do whatever I can to protect that privilege even it if means I trample some "feelings" to do so....

 

[TallTom]

This is an American based forum......and is internationally viewed and has members from all across the world from different races, religions and ethnic origins....

It's not a case of being over-sensitive but more being inclusive. For the most part we are pretty respectful on this site and this needs to be the norm, not the exception.

Our love of motorcycles is the driving force behind being here above all else in my opinion for what it's worth.

Forums such as this are very unique in today's internet world and we have to do our best to protect it on behalf of Cap and the moderators. They allow us to police ourselves.

I don't have anyone on "ignore" as in many cases although we don't always agree on things, I like to see other people's point of view...

Not sure if anyone has me on "ignore" but I imagine a few wish they did....LOL!

It's certainly your choice. Here in America it's become commonplace to attack someone using derogatory usage to silence them. So I help them out. I place them on ignore. So I don't have to watch them be derogatory. I guess I join the cancel culture view some.

Someone calls me a racist. They get placed on ignore. An imbecile. Goes to ignore. Changes the actual text in my written responses to make me a derogatory term=ignore. They love to exercise their free speech rights. Doesn't mean we need to listen to that freedom.

Bee you have had it out with a few here. Yet continue to engage with them. That is totally your perogative. I just prefer to give them enough rope they show their character, then I put them on ignore. Otherwise they will never go away.

I am reminded of the 6000% more likely that an ICE car catches fire than an EV here in this thread. And then post data to the opposite. You begin to think they have some spectrum of mental disorder. So you try and be kind about it. Then they claim how they will leave the thread. Stating that more than once. Yet they remain in it. It's easier to just put them in ignore. So they leave the thread that way. Lol.

I simply don't need to engage with those type. You sir can. And you can continue to complain about them. Again it's totally your decision.

I think America as a whole needs to spend more time ignoring the ever present culture of purposeful derogatory confrontation. Instead we have the ever increasing use of "let's see how far I can push this" attitudes. Now we have our political leaders setting examples of it. I ignore them too. They are supposed to lead the country. Not help tear it down. They act like imbeciles. So they get to engage with other imbeciles.

 

[Bumblebee]

It's certainly your choice. Here in America it's become commonplace to attack someone using derogatory usage to silence them. So I help them out. I place them on ignore. So I don't have to watch them be derogatory. I guess I join the cancel culture view some.

Someone calls me a racist. They get placed on ignore. An imbecile. Goes to ignore. Changes the actual text in my written responses to make me a derogatory term=ignore. They love to exercise their free speech rights. Doesn't mean we need to listen to that freedom.

Bee you have had it out with a few here. Yet continue to engage with them. That is totally your perogative. I just prefer to give them enough rope they show their character, then I put them on ignore. Otherwise they will never go away.

I am reminded of the 6000% more likely that an ICE car catches fire than an EV here in this thread. And then post data to the opposite. You begin to think they have some spectrum of mental disorder. So you try and be kind about it. Then they claim how they will leave the thread. Stating that more than once. Yet they remain in it. It's easier to just put them in ignore. So they leave the thread that way. Lol.

I simply don't need to engage with those type. You sir can. And you can continue to complain about them. Again it's totally your decision.

I think America as a whole needs to spend more time ignoring the ever present culture of purposeful derogatory confrontation. Instead we have the ever increasing use of "let's see how far I can push this" attitudes. Now we have our political leaders setting examples of it. I ignore them too. They are supposed to lead the country. Not help tear it down. They act like imbeciles. So they get to engage with other imbeciles.

That's what makes this forum so good......we have a collection of people who (for the most part) have come together for the love of a particular brand and make of motorcycle and even after they left the brand, they stick around......why is that I ask? It's because of the people here.

I will defend that to the end...if it means engaging people who I don't agree with, I will, if it means to not use the "ignore" function so I can track what is going on and be ready to defend, I will...

I don't know if it is in my nature but it has been ingrained into me over the years.

I might be crazy....(probably am) but I think there is good in everyone and what I've learned on this site is everyone has an opinion, whether that opinion is valid or factual, it is theirs and they have to own it.......I also have an opinion and I have to own it as well......not everyone has to respect or agree with my opinion but that is to be expected.

In the end, this is an internet forum.........nothing we say here will have any kind of impact on real life......if we don't like something or do like something, nobody outside this forum cares....I've yet to see a headline on TV that starts off with "a member on Hayabusa.org states"

 

[Oz22]

The thread is quite long, the concept thrashed to death over and over, it's typical for such threads to get a little nasty towards the end as neither side admits defeat on a subject. My own thoughts on the EV revolution are well stated so it's just rehashing now and posting of articles that track the collapse of the industry. As you say though BB, it's just the internet, and nothing we say here will have any kind of impact on real life outside of our own personal financial choices.

 

[Bumblebee]

The thread is quite long, the concept thrashed to death over and over, it's typical for such threads to get a little nasty towards the end as neither side admits defeat on a subject. My own thoughts on the EV revolution are well stated so it's just rehashing now and posting of articles that track the collapse of the industry. As you say though BB, it's just the internet, and nothing we say here will have any kind of impact on real life outside of our own personal financial choices.

Threads tend to meander along here and there and take the odd side track once in a while...it's what makes this forum so good and never stale....

It's more a conversation than a confrontation these days.....

 

[TallTom]

That's what makes this forum so good......we have a collection of people who (for the most part) have come together for the love of a particular brand and make of motorcycle and even after they left the brand, they stick around......why is that I ask? It's because of the people here.

I will defend that to the end...if it means engaging people who I don't agree with, I will, if it means to not use the "ignore" function so I can track what is going on and be ready to defend, I will...

I don't know if it is in my nature but it has been ingrained into me over the years.

I might be crazy....(probably am) but I think there is good in everyone and what I've learned on this site is everyone has an opinion, whether that opinion is valid or factual, it is theirs and they have to own it.......I also have an opinion and I have to own it as well......not everyone has to respect or agree with my opinion but that is to be expected.

In the end, this is an internet forum.........nothing we say here will have any kind of impact on real life......if we don't like something or do like something, nobody outside this forum cares....I've yet to see a headline on TV that starts off with "a member on Hayabusa.org states"

Well I've come across a few here that had they not posted in the forums I would not have known of their character and beliefs. I would respect they own a Hayabusa. But I would not choose to ride or hang out with them.

 

[Bumblebee]

Well I've come across a few here that had they not posted in the forums I would not have known of their character and beliefs. I would respect they own a Hayabusa. But I would not choose to ride or hang out with them.

Of course....

Not everyone you meet will become your best friend that's a fact.....

We do something here that the "league of nations" can't do, we either agree on issues or maturely disagree.....if that means someone has to go on an ignore list than so be it....

I guess it's in my nature to try and get along with everyone even if sometimes it's a challenge to do so.