I'm sick to my stomach - Michael Vick

I agree with you to an extent, however the LAW says that animals are different from humans so when it comes down to it, he killed and fought animals and he was given the time a Judge thought he deserved.

The LAW does say that animals and humans are different, that is why in my original reply to this thread I wrote "Cruelty to animals is just as bad as child abuse in my book".

I have a slightly different view of society than many may have. I feel that murderers, child abusers and rapists should be on the fast track to the death penalty in all states. I realize this is not the view of the common citizen, and is my opinion on the LAW should work.

Vonderbach, I apologize for steering this thread off your original topic, but some of the replies were geared toward my comments.

I have provided my thoughts on the matter, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I will stick with mine.
 
I agree with you to an extent, however the LAW says that animals are different from humans so when it comes down to it, he killed and fought animals and he was given the time a Judge thought he deserved.

I like to look at it more positive and think that Michael Vick was a par QB before that could run. He made mistakes. He served for his mistakes and is nearly broke because of them. He's now one of the most exciting and best QB's in the league this year
I hate to admit that you are right on this one. But he is that good because he is actually TRYING! He has something to prove to the world now, he didn't before.

Now if a pitbull attacks a child, what happens? The dog is "put down" when a man attacks a pit bull, what happens? He becomes "honored" as a league most "valuable" player??? I give up.
 
I do agree that what he did was sickening.....However, he did his time. He did the time that was given to him. I'm a dog owner and have a soft spot for dogs, but he admitted his mistakes, went to jail, and is still paying fines for what he did.

Child abuse and animal abuse are on 2 totally different levels of wrong.

With that said, he is, hands-down, playing the best football at the QB position in the NFL right now.

You're going to compare him to OJ? Really? OJ has had multiple offenses that he's skated on and he finally got caught with over-whelming evidence on the last one.

+1 He did his time.


Do I think he is a lousy human being for doing that to dogs, yes.


He is playing great football so he should go to the pro-bowl. That being said I haven't watched a football game in over 3 years, I am content with reading the scores in the paper. I couldn't care less about the NFL, I 'd rather ride my bike on Sunday than sit in front the TV watching a football game.
 
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Now if a pitbull attacks a child, what happens? The dog is "put down" when a man attacks a pit bull, what happens? He becomes "honored" as a league most "valuable" player??? I give up.

It's not like he hasn't been punished. Obviously, he still has some money, but he was nearly bankrupt from the fines and not collecting a paycheck for almost 2 years. He did a horrible thing and I'm sure he knows it. I understand personal opinions, but the the fact that people don't believe he deserves a 2nd chance at things is just crazy.
 
What he did was very bad and he has done his time for it, and I hope he recognizes now that it's sooo wrong. Maybe the guy can now make something of his life now that he's hopefully grown up.

But, to equate the life of an animal to the life of a child must be from someone who doesn't have a child...not even in the same boat. We eat animals; we don't eat children. Redemption for one does not equal redemption for the other.

I hope Vick redeems himself.
 
It's not like he hasn't been punished. Obviously, he still has some money, but he was nearly bankrupt from the fines and not collecting a paycheck for almost 2 years. He did a horrible thing and I'm sure he knows it. I understand personal opinions, but the the fact that people don't believe he deserves a 2nd chance at things is just crazy.

Would you or I have been bankrupted by this? I would venture to say yes.
Would you or I still be incarcerated for this? I would venture to say yes.
What makes him different than you or I? MONEY. Period.
That's what's sickening here, not the fact that he is going to be in the pro-bowl or the toilet bowl. The problem is these rich famous schmucks getting away with everything (murder included, not just dogs either) and you guys still defending them. This will NEVER change unless people make it change, and by letting another one skate on through with basically a slap on the wrist, its only gonna get worse.
 
What he did was wrong as hell. He has did his time. What else do you want him to do? I think that , like someone said earlier, its not the crime so much as the person you hate. Everyone has a right to turn there life around. Leave it to you and everyone who commits a crime should be put to death. Get off your soapbox. If you don't like him, don't watch him. Stop crying because your not making his money. Could it be a black, white issue???
 
I was unaware that any of these events or attractions were being voted on by the masses. Even so, I have to wonder, are you familiar with the fallacy known as a red herring? It occurs when a debater attempts to shift the focus of a discussion to favor something other than the initial topic. This draws attention away from the original issue and instead allows the debater to discuss a topic that favors his argument. In this case, you are trying to minimize my moral outrage by suggesting that I am biased because you have been unaware of my protests on other similarly reprehensible activities. However, you have made a miscalculation in the sense that not only do you have no idea if I have protested these activities, but you also assume to equate these activities to that of animal murder.

According to your statement, we are to assume that riding a bull in a stadium is equal to the intentional murder of a dog. Is this correct? Are we also to infer that Zoo's, many of which care for sick or endangered animals, are also engaged in activities on par with the (say it with me) murder of dogs? Frankly, your moral justification for this mans crimes are about as empty a beer keg at a Shriner's convention. (I love my Shriners, so don't get any ideas.)

You claim he did his time. I agree. According to our justice system, his payment to society has been fulfilled. Does this mean we welcome back into our homes every Sunday with our arms open to embrace him like a lost brother?

I'm not sure where either of you got the impression that I was equating child abuse to animal abuse, but you've gone off again and created another straw man fallacy. As if to say that somehow I should leave him alone because there are much worse crimes that occur. You're essentially implying that I should shut my mouth and keep my opinions to myself because you have a "thing" for Vick.

I think the bigger question here is why you as NFL fans would even dare to defend someone that is guilty of a crime that is so very telling of the man's nature. Do you disagree that animal abuse is one of the cardinal calling cards of almost every serial killer in history? Do you feel that living creatures have no right to live and die with some dignity? Even a canine, which has been domesticated over thousands of years to become, to many people, the children that they never had, or the children that they lost? You claim to have dogs, but I don't really think you understand what it is to have a dog in your home. I assume you're one of these people that "owns" dogs in the sense that you "own" a bike. I may be wrong, and I hope I am. But I can't derive much more from someone that can defend this man.

If you noticed in my first post I did not quote you. That was probably a mistake because "you" was not ment to be singular as I was addresing several post and I appoligize if you took my post as being directed entirely towards you.

The examples I gave were just that, examples. Although a little on the extreme side, they were not ment to distract or deflect, they were inline with some of the comments directed towards Mike Vick. Also, you are correct that some of the places I listed do alot of good, but some extremist overlook the positives and focus on a single negative. Because I listed them doesn't mean I support that belief.

The amount of caring, compassion or love a person feels is an individual thing. I know people that will kill over their car. While some think that is extreme, others don't. For the record, my dog is a part of my family and lives in my house, not the garrage, and sleeps in the bed with my son. I would do physical harm to someone who hurt her, just not to the extent that I would do if it were a human member of my family.

Do I think what Mike Vick did was reprehensible? Yes, but I choose to look at today while comparing it to yesterday. I don't know your back ground, but mine is filled with people who commited crimes and went to prison. Some of them came back a better person, some didn't. I treat people according to who they are not who they were. The ones that learned from their mistakes amd tried to improve themselves got help from me. The ones that came out still acting like criminals got treated like criminals.

Serial killers started with animals? There is a big difference between a person who does something for anger rather than pleasure. I would guess he killed the dogs out of anger as opposed to pleasure because he did not kill all of them. I could be wrong, but until he stalks and kills a person I'll stand by that one.

I am not a supporter of Vick, but I do think a person who has paid their debt to society for a crime should be allowed to move on and prosper. Although he is getting money and recognition, he is only reaping a small percentage of what is being gained. Ask yourself this, were there any positives that came from his actions?
 
Now I'm racist? Quality. And nobody said anything about hating anyone. I don't watch him, never did. And I'm not crying. I'm not jealous of his money since I'm sure I've lived a more QUALITY life then he EVER will. Finally, I got your soapbox... I'm gonna quit this topic before I get banned for responding to idiotic posts.
I'll leave you with this:

"the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Ghandi
 
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GXSRBOTS, that link deserves to be quoted.

Beyond the house, shrouded by trees, were five sheds painted black from top to bottom, including the windows and doors. Past them were scattered wire cages and wood doghouses. Farther still, where the trees got thicker, two partly buried car axles protruded from the ground. This was the home of Bad Newz Kennels, the dogfighting operation that Vick and three of his buddies started a year after Vick became the first pick of the 2001 NFL draft. When local and state authorities busted the operation in April 2007, 51 pit bulls were seized, Jasmine among them.

By most estimates Jasmine is around four years old, which means she was most likely born into Bad Newz, and her life there fit the kennel's name. A few of the dogs, probably pets, were kept in one of the sheds. The fighters and a handful of dogs that Bad Newz housed for other people lived in the outdoor kennels. The rest -- dogs that were too young to fight, were used for breeding or were kept as bait dogs for the fighters to practice on -- were chained to the car axles in the woods.

The water in the bowls was speckled with algae. Females were strapped into a "rape stand" so the dogs could breed without injuring each other. Some of the sheds held syringes and other medical supplies, and training equipment such as treadmills and spring bars (from which dogs hung, teeth clamped on rubber rings, to strengthen their jaws). The biggest shed had a fighting pit, once covered by a bloodstained carpet that was found in the woods.

According to court documents, from time to time Vick and his cohorts "rolled" the dogs: put them in the pit for short battles to see which ones had the right stuff. Those that fought got affection, food, vitamins and training sessions. The ones that showed no taste for blood were killed -- by gunshot, electrocution, drowning, hanging or, in at least one case, being repeatedly slammed against the ground.
Read more: What happened to Michael Vick's dogs... - SI.com - Magazine

Schexy1, my apologies if I read your post as being directed towards me. Valid points all around, and I'm happy to see that you are a dog lover. I still can't wrap my mind around the notion that you see this illness as something that can be overcome. Vick seems regretful that he got caught, or that he was involved, but I don't see his regret for the animals that died at his hands. And if he has expressed such regret, I have to wonder if it's sincere. Failure to recognize a dog as a domesticated animal worthy of respect is an impairment of the mind. It's not a bad decision, or a stupid mistake. Killing dogs is not a MISTAKE.

bisquit61 said:
What he did was wrong as hell. He has did his time. What else do you want him to do? I think that , like someone said earlier, its not the crime so much as the person you hate. Everyone has a right to turn there life around. Leave it to you and everyone who commits a crime should be put to death. Get off your soapbox. If you don't like him, don't watch him. Stop crying because your not making his money. Could it be a black, white issue

Did you have a stroke while writing this post? Your first sentence starts out rationally, then you move to ad hominem garbage at the end. You really need to work on your debate skills kiddo.
 
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GXSRBOTS, that link deserves to be quoted.

I took the link out. Figured nobody would read it anyway. Or they'd say, see the dogs are fine now, what's the big deal... Even the dogs got off easy because of fame and money...
 
I took the link out. Figured nobody would read it anyway. Or they'd say, see the dogs are fine now, what's the big deal... Even the dogs got off easy because of fame and money...

That dog will never live a normal life. He's incredibly lucky to have someone to care for him. When PETA wants to kill a dog, it's pretty bad. Of course, PETA has enough problems of their own. I'm not sure I want to use them as an example.
 
Would you or I have been bankrupted by this? I would venture to say yes.
Would you or I still be incarcerated for this? I would venture to say yes.
What makes him different than you or I? MONEY. Period.
That's what's sickening here, not the fact that he is going to be in the pro-bowl or the toilet bowl. The problem is these rich famous schmucks getting away with everything (murder included, not just dogs either) and you guys still defending them. This will NEVER change unless people make it change, and by letting another one skate on through with basically a slap on the wrist, its only gonna get worse.

All this Vick stuff is in the past and done with. I really feel if he wasn't who he was then you wouldn't have heard anything else about it. You said would you be broke? No, they would have wasted thier time with you. You may have gotten a $500 fine. Incarceration = not a chance. They had nothing to gain by convicting you.

Let the man do what he is paid to do, play football.

I can say I grew in the hood. My neighbors had pits fighting next door. I could see them standing on my back porch. if you call the cops on them 90% of the time they didn't come out, and if they did it was hours later.

Bottom line is that dog fighting was started when he did it, and it hasn't stopped because he has been caught. He did his time and has caused any problems in the league, so let the man be, and if is playing well enough to go to the pro bowl, then he deserves it, especially with all you negative folks that compare his personal life with his profession.
 
if vick was playing ****ty, they'd still want him to be miserable. but since he's playing well, all seems forgiven. people suck.
 
Everybody is human. What you do own your own time is not my business just like what I do own my own time is not my company's business. Every time someone in the spotlight gets in trouble everyone condemns them and says that they are role models and need to set a better example.

That debate can go own forever, because there is always some right wing activists that will find something to tear them down with. Barkley said it best " I'm not a role model... Just because I dunk a basketball doesn't mean I should raise your kids."

Most entertainers do drugs and abuse alcohol and women, but does that make you stop watching tv or listening to music.
 
as above- the guy is a scumbag but a good football player...
and i do hope he feels sorry and understands what he did- but i wont hold my breath.
i WILL however give him the benefit of the doubt and let him try to prove hes a better man...
 
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