LATIN SECTION

[tspoole]

Just because something is the law doesn't mean it is moral.  Years ago,scofflaw Africans refused to be treated like subhumans - they too broke the law.  There are LOTS of laws on the books right now that are immoral.  It SHOULD make you mad that your tax dollars are going to a nanny-state that tells people what they can and can not do . . TO THEMSELVES!

Telling someone that a better life is a hop across a river but don't dare go because it's illegal is just cruel.  We're better than that  . . .

The immigration issue isn't about Mexicans - at least it shouldn't be.  Border control is about Al Qaeda slipping through the same border.  Still, Canada is a LOT looser border than Mexico . . . .

Worker passes are part of the answer, along with a full "English Immersion" program.  Unless immigrants want to STAY day laborers they need to be fluent in English.  English is the language of capitalism, it is the native tongue of prosperity.  Don't believe me?  Learn Swahili . . see how far it gets you.

 

[Mr Brown]

It is against the law to come into the United States illegally.

Any other arguments / debates to the contrary are totally irrelevant and pointless.


Bottom line. It is against the law. period.

So what part of "Illegal" is not understood?

So is speeding, but I'd be willing to bet you've done it more than once......
The only reason things are illegal is because there is a law against it. Anything could become illegal/legal tomorrow. Some people are willing to break the law because it suits them, why should we treat the lawbreakers who haven't gotten caught yet differently because they want to live here? Do you call the cops if you are driving down the Interstate and some busa rider blows by you at 160+? I don't, I'm not a Cop, and they aren't hurting me. Illegal immigrants don't hurt me anymore than the lazy-ass welfare dwellers that were born here, hell the illegals prolly cost me less. If the government wants to start eliminating the people who suck the system dry, they should start with Corporate America, get them to quit lying, breaking laws, and having me, Joe Taxpayer foot the bill,and work down from there.

 

[Projekt]

I'm not trying to sound disrespectful here but Projeckt, you are beginning to bore me.

No problem Kev,
No offense taken.
Honestly, I would rather be watching Pimp my Ride on MTV or the other car tinkering shows on TLC/Discovery but they aren't on right now.
You really don't have to stick around reading all of this. Its free will, you know?
Jose

 

[Projekt]

Oh sorry, I forgot.  Unless you approve it, it's biased bullshit.  Totally forgot.

Yet you come up with nothing to counter it.

Plus (as the last bit points out), this verifies a previous study performed by a completely different group.

Also, as you point out yourself, the group is an unbiased, non-politically affiliated group that is "devoted exclusively to research and policy analysis of the economic, social, demographic, fiscal, and other impacts of immigration on the United States."

You might want to go and check out some of the information on legal immigration and others that they have on their site.  They are not biased one way or the other as far as I can tell.  But then again, maybe that's because I'm not biased one way or the other.

You unfortunately are.  And you consistent biased baiting with no real substance to back it up is both annoying and very, very boring.

Oh hell... I think I just defined you as a troll.

Thank you sir may I have another,
V/r Biased Troll

 

[RandomNickname]

" From http://www.cis.org/aboutcis.html "
Who we are
The Center for Immigration Studies is an independent, non-partisan, non-profit research organization founded in 1985. It is the nation's only think tank devoted exclusively to research and policy analysis of the economic, social, demographic, fiscal, and other impacts of immigration on the United States.

This is not a branch of Government. So, must I believe that they are honest? The FOIA will give you better insight to counter-argue. If you dislike immigrants do your own seat of the pants research and find out for yourself. Don't come back with another, lazy, googled cut and pasted blurb and have your crony applaud you with a "Dang... Guess that is called "Check and mate"

However, the study was based entirely on U.S. Census bureau data.

The Census Bureau is a governemental agency, isn't it? Oh dear.

Also it should be noted that the CIS report was only for costs at the federal level. Statewide costs could also be significant, however those would vary state to state based on such factors as the amount of illegal immigration, and the states capacity for handling such cost overruns through its own funding (states such as Texas, for instance, are more likely to incur even greater costs, as it has a high concentration of illegal immigrants, bothe from Mexico and elsewhere in the world, but also because of its lack of a state sales tax).

I won't even go into how Illegal Immigration pipelines have been known to facilitate the importation of terroristic and terrorist sympathetic people into the nation.

And please, before you start screaming bias or whatever, please, dont even try that ploy. I've specifically looked for factual and news information, and weeded out opinion, rhetoric, and politically biased pieces (and there's a lot out there for both sides).

(And you REALLY don't want me bringing up the National Research Council's Study. For one thing, it's really dry reading, and two... let's just say it doesn't paint a pretty picture for your point of view.)

Unfortunately, all you've supplied is conjecture and opinion, as well as a fairly obvious bias. And has been pointed out, it's becoming tiresome.

also, I have to back up to this:

Mexiguy acquires a social security number (BINGO) that used to belong to someone recently passed away, or someone still living that might have a Latin name. Next he travels to re-unite with his family.
Practically starved and in need of rest he arrives at this initial destination, which is family, friends or people that have helped others. These people help Mexiguy find a job using the Social Security Number that he acquired. He goes to work washing dishes until he graduates to cook then waiter because by then he speaks enough English. Taxes are withheld the entire time but he doesn't file for them because he is afraid of raising eyebrows and linking his address with the false SSN he is using. He just counts his blessings and gives thanks because it is a small price to pay for a stepping stone toward citizenship.[/QUOTE]

So basically you're not only condoning but championing the idea of identity theft and fraud simply so someone can come into this country and take away not only the opportunities that someone who has a legal right to live and work here might have, but also the good name (and whatever bonus goes with it) of the person whose identity has been lifted? Are you ACTUALLY serious?



<!--EDIT|RandomNickname
Reason for Edit: None given...|1121275264 -->

 

[Relsek]

Oh and since you asked later I decided to amend this post,
the j is like a y as in yes. For example jest sounds like yest and means it is or its so. Ja is I am and sounds like ya.

They mean the same as the russian words that sound the same, they are just spelled differently.

 

[thrasherfox]

It is against the law to come into the United States illegally.

Any other arguments / debates to the contrary are totally irrelevant and pointless.


Bottom line. It is against the law. period.

So what part of "Illegal" is not understood?

So is speeding, but I'd be willing to bet you've done it more than once......
The only reason things are illegal is because there is a law against it. Anything could become illegal/legal tomorrow. Some people are willing to break the law because it suits them, why should we treat the lawbreakers who haven't gotten caught yet differently because they want to live here? Do you call the cops if you are driving down the Interstate and some busa rider blows by you at 160+? I don't, I'm not a Cop, and they aren't hurting me. Illegal immigrants don't hurt me anymore than the lazy-ass welfare dwellers that were born here, hell the illegals prolly cost me less. If the government wants to start eliminating the people who suck the system dry, they should start with Corporate America, get them to quit lying, breaking laws, and having me, Joe Taxpayer foot the bill,and work down from there.

It's illegal.

And if I am doing 70mph in a 55mph zone and I get pulled over and get a ticket.. guess what.. I deserved it.

And some people do call the police on speeders.

At my base they published the phone number to the back gate security and have encouraged people that if they see any one speeding to call the back gate and have them pulled over..

have I ever done it? no. But if I ever speed I always keep in mind I could be speeding past a police officer or someone else that just doesn’t like bikes and someone could always call the police on me.

Have I ever called the police on an illegal immigrant? No

Have I ever cared enough to join a minuteman group to help patrol the borders? No.

To me honestly, I am not personally affected by it so I have other things in life to worry about that DO personally affect me.

Do I think coming into this country illegally is wrong? Uhh yeah. And it is not just about terrorists. It is about population control for one. We have had border policies in place WAY before we were concerned with terrorists crossing borders.

And yeah, we have some laws I don’t agree with. But they are laws. And there is nothing immoral about wanting to control our borders.

Again, as I stated. It is illegal. Period. Morality has nothing to do with it. Each of us have and make our own definitions of what is moral and what isn’t. That is why we need laws to guide is. Because everyone has their own definition as to what is moral and what isn’t, what is right and what is wrong.

That fricken freak child molester they just caught that killed that boy and had the little girl with him. He had some internet blog somewhere that the police found and he stated he could not longer tell what was right and what as wrong.

So just because someone on this board thinks something is immoral does not make it immoral, and just because someone thinks something IS moral does not make it moral.

But law is law. Period

And this topic is not about traffic laws, or gun laws, it is about immigration laws.



<!--EDIT|thrasherfox
Reason for Edit: None given...|1121247330 -->

 

[mjn]

i started nodding off after reading 1/2 way down...


snake got one point to make-- illegal immigration is a criminal act and they should be treated as criminals. Period. We have laws, and they not should brushed aside at the risk of offending liberals or the criminals. I really wish the bush admin had a few more kahones with respect to this.

The US is at war. Meanwhile we have unsecured borders-- not logical...

Immgration is fine-- apply, wait, come, just as all legal immigrants did and just as my great grandparents did. Otherwise kick 'em the heck back to where they came from.

Hit the nail right on the head.

Well put.

 

[Mr Brown]

It is against the law to come into the United States illegally.

Any other arguments / debates to the contrary are totally irrelevant and pointless.


Bottom line. It is against the law. period.

So what part of "Illegal" is not understood?

So is speeding, but I'd be willing to bet you've done it more than once......
The only reason things are illegal is because there is a law against it. Anything could become illegal/legal tomorrow. Some people are willing to break the law because it suits them, why should we treat the lawbreakers who haven't gotten caught yet differently because they want to live here? Do you call the cops if you are driving down the Interstate and some busa rider blows by you at 160+? I don't, I'm not a Cop, and they aren't hurting me. Illegal immigrants don't hurt me anymore than the lazy-ass welfare dwellers that were born here, hell the illegals prolly cost me less. If the government wants to start eliminating the people who suck the system dry, they should start with Corporate America, get them to quit lying, breaking laws, and having me, Joe Taxpayer foot the bill,and work down from there.

It's illegal.

And if I am doing 70mph in a 55mph zone and I get pulled over and get a ticket.. guess what.. I deserved it.

And some people do call the police on speeders.

At my base they published the phone number to the back gate security and have encouraged people that if they see any one speeding to call the back gate and have them pulled over..

have I ever done it? no. But if I ever speed I always keep in mind I could be speeding past a police officer or someone else that just doesn’t like bikes and someone could always call the police on me.

Have I ever called the police on an illegal immigrant? No

Have I ever cared enough to join a minuteman group to help patrol the borders? No.

To me honestly, I am not personally affected by it so I have other things in life to worry about that DO personally affect me.

Do I think coming into this country illegally is wrong? Uhh yeah. And it is not just about terrorists. It is about population control for one. We have had border policies in place WAY before we were concerned with terrorists crossing borders.

And yeah, we have some laws I don’t agree with. But they are laws. And there is nothing immoral about wanting to control our borders.

Again, as I stated. It is illegal. Period. Morality has nothing to do with it. Each of us have and make our own definitions of what is moral and what isn’t. That is why we need laws to guide is. Because everyone has their own definition as to what is moral and what isn’t, what is right and what is wrong.

That fricken freak child molester they just caught that killed that boy and had the little girl with him. He had some internet blog somewhere that the police found and he stated he could not longer tell what was right and what as wrong.

So just because someone on this board thinks something is immoral does not make it immoral, and just because someone thinks something IS moral does not make it moral.

But law is law. Period

And this topic is not about traffic laws, or gun laws, it is about immigration laws.

My point is that people break the law all the time, as they see fit. If illegal immigrants get caught they get sent back to wherever they came from, I have no problem with that. It just seems to me that many people get all upset over this issue when there are far more important matters that need attention.
I'm not gonna debate the morality of immigration or any other laws here, that's a whole different topic, but as you said illegal immigration is a crime, and people would do well to remember that and quit acting like it's a personal issue. It's no more personal than tax fraud, embezzlement or speeding.

 

[busa-rich]

 

[thesnake]

Ok, lets make this as simple as possible.

"ILLEGAL" IMMIGRANTS

No studies are needed, no justifications are justifiable.

Illegal means they are here illegally.

Being here illegally means they are breaking laws

Breaking laws means tax payers are having to pay law enforcement to maintain border security.

Illegal means Illegal. Period. Right off the bat Illegal immigrants are breaking United States laws. Meaning they don’t respect our laws, they come into out country with no regard for our laws.

It is against the law to come into the United States illegally.

Any other arguments / debates to the contrary are totally irrelevant and pointless.


Bottom line. It is against the law. period.

So what part of "Illegal" is not understood?

a BIG +1

get rid of the crimaliens!

 

[thesnake]

It is against the law to come into the United States illegally.

Any other arguments / debates to the contrary are totally irrelevant and pointless.


Bottom line. It is against the law. period.

So what part of "Illegal" is not understood?

So is speeding, but I'd be willing to bet you've done it more than once......
The only reason things are illegal is because there is a law against it. Anything could become illegal/legal tomorrow. Some people are willing to break the law because it suits them, why should we treat the lawbreakers who haven't gotten caught yet differently because they want to live here? Do you call the cops if you are driving down the Interstate and some busa rider blows by you at 160+? I don't, I'm not a Cop, and they aren't hurting me. Illegal immigrants don't hurt me anymore than the lazy-ass welfare dwellers that were born here, hell the illegals prolly cost me less. If the government wants to start eliminating the people who suck the system dry, they should start with Corporate America, get them to quit lying, breaking laws, and having me, Joe Taxpayer foot the bill,and work down from there.

It's illegal.

And if I am doing 70mph in a 55mph zone and I get pulled over and get a ticket.. guess what.. I deserved it.

And some people do call the police on speeders.

At my base they published the phone number to the back gate security and have encouraged people that if they see any one speeding to call the back gate and have them pulled over..

have I ever done it? no. But if I ever speed I always keep in mind I could be speeding past a police officer or someone else that just doesn’t like bikes and someone could always call the police on me.

Have I ever called the police on an illegal immigrant? No

Have I ever cared enough to join a minuteman group to help patrol the borders? No.

To me honestly, I am not personally affected by it so I have other things in life to worry about that DO personally affect me.

Do I think coming into this country illegally is wrong? Uhh yeah. And it is not just about terrorists. It is about population control for one. We have had border policies in place WAY before we were concerned with terrorists crossing borders.

And yeah, we have some laws I don’t agree with. But they are laws. And there is nothing immoral about wanting to control our borders.

Again, as I stated. It is illegal. Period. Morality has nothing to do with it. Each of us have and make our own definitions of what is moral and what isn’t. That is why we need laws to guide is. Because everyone has their own definition as to what is moral and what isn’t, what is right and what is wrong.

That fricken freak child molester they just caught that killed that boy and had the little girl with him. He had some internet blog somewhere that the police found and he stated he could not longer tell what was right and what as wrong.

So just because someone on this board thinks something is immoral does not make it immoral, and just because someone thinks something IS moral does not make it moral.

But law is law. Period

And this topic is not about traffic laws, or gun laws, it is about immigration laws.

My point is that people break the law all the time, as they see fit. If illegal immigrants get caught they get sent back to wherever they came from, I have no problem with that. It just seems to me that many people get all upset over this issue when there are far more important matters that need attention.
I'm not gonna debate the morality of immigration or any other laws here, that's a whole different topic, but as you said illegal immigration is a crime, and people would do well to remember that and quit acting like it's a personal issue. It's no more personal than tax fraud, embezzlement or speeding.

brown,

I usally see eye to eye with ya on many things, but not this one. During a time of war, it is hard to find something MORE IMPORTANT than securing your perimeter, or border in this case.

I have nothing against any culture, race, etc. However, I have a big issue with illegal immigration and the lazy/inept response by the folks in washington.

 

[thrasherfox]

News Article Link


LOS ANGELES (AP) - A fugitive considered one of Mexico's most dangerous criminals was deported Tuesday after being arrested in Southern California, nearly 19 years after a sensational armed escape from a Mexican prison courtroom, immigration officials said.
Alfredo Rios Galeana was surprised by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents Monday afternoon at his home in the city of South Gate just south of Los Angeles, said agency spokeswoman Virginia Kice.
His arrest on immigration violations resulted from a multi-agency investigation by authorities in the U.S. and Mexico, she said.
Kice said investigators with the state Department of Motor Vehicles received a tip about Rios' whereabouts and were told he had undergone plastic surgery to change his appearance. Agents approached him using his alias Arturo Montoya, Kice said.
Rios, unaware he would be handed over to Mexican authorities, agreed to a voluntary deportation - a choice frequently made by those who hope to avoid detention or formal deportation orders that can bar them from returning the United States.
Kice said Rios was deported at the San Ysidro border crossing, near San Diego, where he was met by Mexican authorities.
Rios escaped from a courtroom in Mexico City's Southern Prison in November 1986, one of a group of inmates freed by armed assailants who burst in, tied up 20 people and used a hand grenade to blast a hole through a wall to escape, according to ICE and news accounts at the time.
Rios, a former paratrooper in the Mexican military, was featured on Mexico's most wanted fugitives list for his alleged role in violent bank robberies in Mexico City during the 1970s and 1980s, according to ICE.
He is wanted in Mexico on eight felony warrants that include charges of murder, kidnapping and robbery.
In the last 10 months, ICE's Los Angeles fugitive operations team has arrested at least a dozen Mexican nationals wanted there on murder charges.



<!--EDIT|thrasherfox
Reason for Edit: None given...|1121265957 -->

 

[Projekt]

" From http://www.cis.org/aboutcis.html "
Who we are
The Center for Immigration Studies is an independent, non-partisan, non-profit research organization founded in 1985. It is the nation's only think tank devoted exclusively to research and policy analysis of the economic, social, demographic, fiscal, and other impacts of immigration on the United States.

This is not a branch of Government. So, must I believe that they are honest? The FOIA will give you better insight to counter-argue. If you dislike immigrants do your own seat of the pants research and find out for yourself. Don't come back with another, lazy, googled cut and pasted blurb and have your crony applaud you with a "Dang... Guess that is called "Check and mate"  

However, the study was based entirely on U.S. Census bureau data.

The Census Bureau is a governemental agency, isn't it?  Oh dear.

Also it should be noted that the CIS report was only for costs at the federal level.  Statewide costs could also be significant, however those would vary state to state based on such factors as the amount of illegal immigration, and the states capacity for handling such cost overruns through its own funding (states such as Texas, for instance, are more likely to incur even greater costs, as it has a high concentration of illegal immigrants, bothe from Mexico and elsewhere in the world, but also because of its lack of a state sales tax).

I won't even go into how Illegal Immigration pipelines have been known to facilitate the importation of terroristic and terrorist sympathetic people into the nation.

And please, before you start screaming bias or whatever, please, dont even try that ploy.  I've specifically looked for factual and news information, and weeded out opinion, rhetoric, and politically biased pieces (and there's a lot out there for both sides).  

(And you REALLY don't want me bringing up the National Research Council's Study.  For one thing, it's really dry reading, and two... let's just say it doesn't paint a pretty picture for your point of view.)

Unfortunately, all you've supplied is conjecture and opinion, as well as a fairly obvious bias.  And has been pointed out, it's becoming tiresome.

also, I have to back up to this:

Mexiguy acquires a social security number (BINGO) that used to belong to someone recently passed away, or someone still living that might have a Latin name. Next he travels to re-unite with his family.
Practically starved and in need of rest he arrives at this initial destination, which is family, friends or people that have helped others. These people help Mexiguy find a job using the Social Security Number that he acquired. He goes to work washing dishes until he graduates to cook then waiter because by then he speaks enough English. Taxes are withheld the entire time but he doesn't file for them because he is afraid of raising eyebrows and linking his address with the false SSN he is using. He just counts his blessings and gives thanks because it is a small price to pay for a stepping stone toward citizenship.

So basically you're not only condoning but championing the idea of identity theft and fraud simply so someone can come into this country and take away not only the opportunities that someone who has a legal right to live and work here might have, but also the good name (and whatever bonus goes with it) of the person whose identity has been lifted?  Are you ACTUALLY serious?[/QUOTE]
Nah, wrong again,
I am just providing a factual illustration of the type of process that supports illegal immigrants on their way into the US labor force.
Once again another faulty conclusion on your part.
So throw some more text at me. I can read it and will give you an honest UNBIASED analysis... Believe it or not.
Sincerely,
Justan Athur Brownman

 

[Projekt]

Oh and since you asked later I decided to amend this post,
the j is like a y as in yes. For example jest sounds like yest and means it is or its so. Ja is I am and sounds like ya.

They mean the same as the russian words that sound the same, they are just spelled differently.

Exactly right.
The thing about Serb/Kroat/Bosenski is that it has a Latin Syntax and a very large homogenization of Latin words. You know, leftovers of the Roman Provincial influence. Then you have more contemporary words taken from Turkish/Byzantine rule and even more recently Austro-Hungarian coloniallism that ended at the treaty of Trianon after WWI.
Cool stuff ain't it?

 

[Projekt]

It is against the law to come into the United States illegally.

Any other arguments / debates to the contrary are totally irrelevant and pointless.


Bottom line. It is against the law. period.

So what part of "Illegal" is not understood?

So is speeding, but I'd be willing to bet you've done it more than once......
The only reason things are illegal is because there is a law against it. Anything could become illegal/legal tomorrow. Some people are willing to break the law because it suits them, why should we treat the lawbreakers who haven't gotten caught yet differently because they want to live here? Do you call the cops if you are driving down the Interstate and some busa rider blows by you at 160+? I don't, I'm not a Cop, and they aren't hurting me. Illegal immigrants don't hurt me anymore than the lazy-ass welfare dwellers that were born here, hell the illegals prolly cost me less. If the government wants to start eliminating the people who suck the system dry, they should start with Corporate America, get them to quit lying, breaking laws, and having me, Joe Taxpayer foot the bill,and work down from there.

It's illegal.

And if I am doing 70mph in a 55mph zone and I get pulled over and get a ticket.. guess what.. I deserved it.

And some people do call the police on speeders.

At my base they published the phone number to the back gate security and have encouraged people that if they see any one speeding to call the back gate and have them pulled over..

have I ever done it? no. But if I ever speed I always keep in mind I could be speeding past a police officer or someone else that just doesn’t like bikes and someone could always call the police on me.

Have I ever called the police on an illegal immigrant? No

Have I ever cared enough to join a minuteman group to help patrol the borders? No.

To me honestly, I am not personally affected by it so I have other things in life to worry about that DO personally affect me.

Do I think coming into this country illegally is wrong? Uhh yeah. And it is not just about terrorists. It is about population control for one. We have had border policies in place WAY before we were concerned with terrorists crossing borders.

And yeah, we have some laws I don’t agree with. But they are laws. And there is nothing immoral about wanting to control our borders.

Again, as I stated. It is illegal. Period. Morality has nothing to do with it. Each of us have and make our own definitions of what is moral and what isn’t. That is why we need laws to guide is. Because everyone has their own definition as to what is moral and what isn’t, what is right and what is wrong.

That fricken freak child molester they just caught that killed that boy and had the little girl with him. He had some internet blog somewhere that the police found and he stated he could not longer tell what was right and what as wrong.

So just because someone on this board thinks something is immoral does not make it immoral, and just because someone thinks something IS moral does not make it moral.

But law is law. Period

And this topic is not about traffic laws, or gun laws, it is about immigration laws.

ThrasherFox,
Good points and good illustration. I see your opinion and understand your supporting argument, I even see your philosophy. It is all good...
This thread had no clear direction when I laid it down; it didn't start out with the intention of ruffling feathers. I didn't intend to push buttons. All I wanted to do was to enlighten people on some facts. I was aware of the worst case scenario (being misunderstood repeatedly, accused of bias and grandfathered as illegal myself) and that has since passed a couple of pages back. I knew I was sticking my neck out for the hatchet or noose. I am fully aware of the impact that my "manifesto" could possibly have.
Immigration is illegal for most Mexicans as well as most people around the world, and I have already given my THEORY as to why it is illegal.
In regards to legality, there is no misunderstanding or denial on my or any other contributor's part.
The questions have been raised about the reasons or morality of the illegality of immigration, declared during the highest concentration of Mexican immigration.
1. What does that say to you?
2. Why didn't the Irish, Italians, Greeks, Jews, Poles, Russian or Scandinavians get told to stop and turn around?
3. Why is it that a very easily identifiable immigrant group was made the sacrificial lamb?
4. Why did the Mexicans (those brown, medium skinned and anglo ones included) get the sh!t end of it?
5. Why does everyone keep saying there is no more room here for them?
6. Why isn't the real reason so blatantly obvious to everyone else?
Lets be reasonable about the issue and really look at what it says about America's social nuances and defects.
What do you say?
I separate as SSgt Castaneda 2E271, USAF in August 2002, and served 8 years, Kelly AFB (Security Hill Cryptologic Support Center) 94-97, RAF Croughton, UK (AutoDIN) 97-00, Pentagon (Joint Staff, National Military Command Center, Red Switch) 00-02.
Do you know me? I might know who you are. You know how small the Military world is...

 

[Projekt]

News Article Link


LOS ANGELES (AP) - A fugitive considered one of Mexico's most dangerous criminals was deported Tuesday after being arrested in Southern California, nearly 19 years after a sensational armed escape from a Mexican prison courtroom, immigration officials said.
Alfredo Rios Galeana was surprised by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents Monday afternoon at his home in the city of South Gate just south of Los Angeles, said agency spokeswoman Virginia Kice.
His arrest on immigration violations resulted from a multi-agency investigation by authorities in the U.S. and Mexico, she said.
Kice said investigators with the state Department of Motor Vehicles received a tip about Rios' whereabouts and were told he had undergone plastic surgery to change his appearance. Agents approached him using his alias Arturo Montoya, Kice said.
Rios, unaware he would be handed over to Mexican authorities, agreed to a voluntary deportation - a choice frequently made by those who hope to avoid detention or formal deportation orders that can bar them from returning the United States.
Kice said Rios was deported at the San Ysidro border crossing, near San Diego, where he was met by Mexican authorities.
Rios escaped from a courtroom in Mexico City's Southern Prison in November 1986, one of a group of inmates freed by armed assailants who burst in, tied up 20 people and used a hand grenade to blast a hole through a wall to escape, according to ICE and news accounts at the time.
Rios, a former paratrooper in the Mexican military, was featured on Mexico's most wanted fugitives list for his alleged role in violent bank robberies in Mexico City during the 1970s and 1980s, according to ICE.
He is wanted in Mexico on eight felony warrants that include charges of murder, kidnapping and robbery.
In the last 10 months, ICE's Los Angeles fugitive operations team has arrested at least a dozen Mexican nationals wanted there on murder charges.

TF,
That is a cool article. But what does it say? "International fugitive nabbed in US". Guy was probably working as a janitor, mechanic, or some other menial labor intensive form of employment. Who knew SouthGate was a hotbed for international fugitives. I bet I can find a few more lurking around unnoticed, just trying to let a past life die.
No doubt that guy probably did many bad things in Mexico, but the Mexican judicial system isn't exactly comparable to the US's "Innocent until proven guilty".

Gee wiz! Let me find you a few more. Let me find you some of the American ex-patriot fugitives living around the globe.

Look at Scott Peterson, everybody knows he was dreaming of sunny beaches and Tequila Sunrises when he was apprehended in the Tijuana area. He was granted due process and convicted because the evidence against him was overwhelmingly clear.
 How many international fugitives are extradited back to the US annually? Let me go so far to say that I can find a bunch of Former NAZI war criminals living in the US. That is if they are not dead by now of old age.

Who else, you ask?
Iraqi undesireables
Former Pre-Revolution Iranian political figures
Afghani Training Camp Suspects
Sleeper Members of the Crimson Jihad
Condoned Isreali Spys
North Korean Socialists
Chinese Industrial and Intelligence personnel
Fidel Castro's Intelligence Network
Former members of the Khmer Rouge
Former Members of the Viet Cong
Serbian War Criminals using false Identities
Eastern European Criminal entities
African Genocide perpetrators
Industrial Predators from all parts of the globe
You get the picture.
So what difference does one phuken Mexican with a bad past actually make?



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[Projekt]

My point is that people break the law all the time, as they see fit. If illegal immigrants get caught they get sent back to wherever they came from, I have no problem with that. It just seems to me that many people get all upset over this issue when there are far more important matters that need attention.
I'm not gonna debate the morality of immigration or any other laws here, that's a whole different topic, but as you said illegal immigration is a crime, and people would do well to remember that and quit acting like it's a personal issue. It's no more personal than tax fraud, embezzlement or speeding.

brown,

I usally see eye to eye with ya on many things, but not this one. During a time of war, it is hard to find something MORE IMPORTANT than securing your perimeter, or border in this case.

I have nothing against any culture, race, etc. However, I have a big issue with illegal immigration and the lazy/inept response by the folks in washington.

Snake,
No argument there man, really.
You are right, but the core issue is beauracracy and politics. This is to blame for the failure of containment, or present show of effort.
The administration benefits from the publication of a few suspected Syrian, Lebanese, or Palestinians getting caught coming across the border. Makes it look like they really want to continue terrorist acts against America. So then we can stay in Afghanistan and Iraq a lot longer and spend more money there instead of "Solving the Border Problem".
More fluff right?
Jose



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[Mr Brown]

brown,

I usally see eye to eye with ya on many things, but not this one. During a time of war, it is hard to find something MORE IMPORTANT than securing your perimeter, or border in this case.

I have nothing against any culture, race, etc. However, I have a big issue with illegal immigration and the lazy/inept response by the folks in washington.

I agree that having our borders secure during a time of war is very important. The problem that I have is that they never have been secure, are not currently, and barring a major change in our lifestyle, never will be. If the Government was really interested in closing our borders for our safety, surely they would have installed military garrisons all along BOTH borders. The reality is that our border with Canada is free for the walking across. Do you expect me to believe that our enemies are ignorant to this? If you had means, where would you rather enter the country? The terrorists that we are dealing with are not poor, they are not gonna come walking across the Rio Grande and take their chances with the Border Patrol, they're gonna walk across from Canada one evening, when the 2 agents per 100 square miles are elsewhere. Perhaps they will dock a small sailboat on the coast in Northern California or Oregon, get picked up my a fellow radical or American sympathizer, and driven off to wherever.
There are plenty of ways for a determined enemy to get into this country, always will be.
The problem I have is that the government is once agin using the threat of terrorism to scare people into swallowing a different agenda. Just as the attempt to connect drug use with terrorist financing was nothing more than scare actics to force us to give up our rights without a fight, so the connection between illegal aliens and terrorism is merely a front to disguise the racist and classist immigration policies in place now.
You can kick out all the Pablo's and Juan's you want, it isn't gonna stop Salam and Rashaad from coming......

 

[Projekt]

brown,

I usally see eye to eye with ya on many things, but not this one. During a time of war, it is hard to find something MORE IMPORTANT than securing your perimeter, or border in this case.

I have nothing against any culture, race, etc. However, I have a big issue with illegal immigration and the lazy/inept response by the folks in washington.

I agree that having our borders secure during a time of war is very important. The problem that I have is that they never have been secure, are not currently, and barring a major change in our lifestyle, never will be. If the Government was really interested in closing our borders for our safety, surely they would have installed military garrisons all along BOTH borders. The reality is that our border with Canada is free for the walking across. Do you expect me to believe that our enemies are ignorant to this? If you had means, where would you rather enter the country? The terrorists that we are dealing with are not poor, they are not gonna come walking across the Rio Grande and take their chances with the Border Patrol, they're gonna walk across from Canada one evening, when the 2 agents per 100 square miles are elsewhere. Perhaps they will dock a small sailboat on the coast in Northern California or Oregon, get picked up my a fellow radical or American sympathizer, and driven off to wherever.
There are plenty of ways for a determined enemy to get into this country, always will be.
The problem I have is that the government is once agin using the threat of terrorism to scare people into swallowing a different agenda. Just as the attempt to connect drug use with terrorist financing was nothing more than scare actics to force us to give up our rights without a fight, so the connection between illegal aliens and terrorism is merely a front to disguise the racist and classist immigration policies in place now.
You can kick out all the Pablo's and Juan's you want, it isn't gonna stop Salam and Rashaad from coming......

Great Senor Cafe,
You took the words right out of my mouth. I was just waiting to see who else might have offered that up for evaluation.
That is the clear (although phuked up) Political Agenda. It means jobs and money.

To everyone else,
Ask me how I got to that conclusion.

Justan Athur Brownman