More drama with my bike accident!!

[zxwut?]

thats interesting.

Technically that would be considered speeding but the cops around here and probably most any other cop around unless he is a straight hole will not cite you for that. Does that make it right no but it has happened for so long that is acceptable by everyone and everyone does it. Granted if i was a super skilled rider like ZXWUT :tongue2: i would have been able to stop in time and avoid the crash. I'm not perfect and nor is anyone else and i dont have very much riding experience and you only get experience with time, which i plenty of. That said if she would have waited to turn out none of this would have happened

Very true but like I said, you need to be able to avoid this kind of thing cause it does happen all the time. Read up a few posts, I explained what the zip tie on the brake lever trick does. Do it and you'll be happy to see the throw on your brake lever cut in half and no longer be mushy or weak.

 

[suzuki4life]

Okay, I did some math on the numbers mentioned in this thread. I used this website to help me calculate stopping distances using perfect conditions. Stopping Distance Calculator

If you're going 35MPH you're traveling at 51.3 feet a second and it would take you around 42 feet to stop at that speed. Locking up your brakes of course increases your braking distance.

Since you skidded a little over 70 feet before impact I turned that into a braking distance to calculate speed. So if it takes you 70 feet to come to a complete stop you're going 67 feet per second or around 42 MPH. Once again this is under perfect braking with no skidding.

Perfect braking and tire road contact gives you a coefficient of .8. I cut that in half to estimate what the skidding did for you. So traveling at 35 MPH and locking up your brakes will cause your braking distance to increase to 102 feet. If you're going 40 MPH you're stopping distance with locked up brakes is 133 feet.

Cutting the coefficient in half is probably not accurate for the amount of loss that is occurring but it proves a couple points. You were probably going faster than you think you were going and that you need to improve your braking skills. I'm not calling you out or anything like that we all need improvement in at least one area.

your calculator is for a car. Mass and weight has a lot to do with the ability to stop and turn. Plus the motorcycle braking system is superior to most cars.

 

[Mr Bogus]

I've got a little secret for you; when you get your bike back, zip tie your brake lever to your grip as tight as you can. Leave it that way for 24hrs. Also, tie a 10lb weight to your rear brake lever. I do this about once a month. You'll thank me later.

ok then an this does what?

 

[zxwut?]

ok then an this does what?

I've already answered this twice in this post. Read up a few.

 

[NickSully]

your calculator is for a car. Mass and weight has a lot to do with the ability to stop and turn. Plus the motorcycle braking system is superior to most cars.

Sorry, but you're mistaken in the equation. Mass/Weight has nothing to do with stopping distance directly. They have a affect over coefficient of friction which I set at .8 for a motorcycle. I guess we could say that the coefficient is 1 or a higher number but from my calculations .8 would be just about right for a motorcycle. A car would be about . 5 or .6 depending on the car. A semi truck would be .3 maybe.

 

[Tufbusa]

I've already answered this twice in this post. Read up a few.

The ziptie trick only improves the firmness of the lever. Has absolutely no effect on the braking ability of the bike.

And in reality, the average Joe is much better off with a soft lever. That's why the little techs with the flat butts design your busa that way. To keep the average Joe from locking the front on a panic stop. Which apparently didn't help this poor bloke since he seem to have locked the tire anyway.

It's rare to find anyone who is exceptional on the brakes unless they have at least a few track days under their belt. I have never met a guy off the streets whom I felt had the upper hand on braking.

 

[zxwut?]

The ziptie trick only improves the firmness of the lever. Has absolutely no effect on the braking ability of the bike.

I think those 2 statements contradict one another. Not having to pull the lever back to the grip definitely is an improvement on the braking ability.

 

[suzuki4life]

Sorry, but you're mistaken in the equation. Mass/Weight has nothing to do with stopping distance directly. They have a affect over coefficient of friction which I set at .8 for a motorcycle. I guess we could say that the coefficient is 1 or a higher number but from my calculations .8 would be just about right for a motorcycle. A car would be about . 5 or .6 depending on the car. A semi truck would be .3 maybe.

b/s...check the laws of inertia.

 

[suzuki4life]

by your logic since weight and mass are not a factor then an unloaded semi should stop in the same distance as a loaded one does. and how they are loaded doesn't matter either.

 

[07vigorblue]

Gosh look what i have started better get the LOL.

Only 1 thing to say is i did not even think i hit the brakes i instantly laid the bike over. All i remember is switching lanes and thinking OH SNAP!! this is gonna hurt and next thing i know i wake up with people around me and i'm talking to the ambulance people

 

[HT_USMC]

I think those 2 statements contradict one another. Not having to pull the lever back to the grip definitely is an improvement on the braking ability.

By your logic you should just a have a brake button at your left thumb that gives max braking just short of locking them up.

Wouldn't that be better then having to deal with the lever at all? Nope. You need that range of motion in the lever to allow for fine adjustments.

 

[suzuki4life]

Its just funny to be told I am wrong since I taught this stuff for DOT for years. Braking, load placement, weight distribution etc.


Car and driver showed years ago they could get certain cars to stop quicker in a "controlled skid" than they could with abs...but it was mere feet, controlled conditions and never exactly the same distance.

 

[zxwut?]

By your logic you should just a have a brake button at your left thumb that gives max braking just short of locking them up.

Wouldn't that be better then having to deal with the lever at all? Nope. You need that range of motion in the lever to allow for fine adjustments.

Don't put words in my mouth. Sit back, listen, and maybe you'll learn something.

After you get all the air out of the line, the brake lever acts like it did FROM THE FACTORY. If your brake lever is mushy and you can pull it back to the grip (which I've found that most people's are cause they don't know any better), that's WRONG. There is more than enough play in the lever stock to make those "fine adjustments." If you can't ride your bike the way it comes, you shouldn't be on it. Get something smaller that'll be more forgiving and easier to ride. Not that the busa is hard to ride either, but if you can't control it properly, you probably shouldn't be on it. You'll shoot your eye out.

 

[HT_USMC]

Don't put words in my mouth. Sit back, listen, and maybe you'll learn something.

After you get all the air out of the line, the brake lever acts like it did FROM THE FACTORY. If your brake lever is mushy and you can pull it back to the grip (which I've found that most people's are cause they don't know any better), that's WRONG. There is more than enough play in the lever stock to make those "fine adjustments." If you can't ride your bike the way it comes, you shouldn't be on it. Get something smaller that'll be more forgiving and easier to ride. Not that the busa is hard to ride either, but if you can't control it properly, you probably shouldn't be on it. You'll shoot your eye out.

The discussion was whether having a firm brake lever is good/better for an average rider. I don't disagree the lever shouldn't "mash" back to the grip to get max braking. I do think that too firm a brake lever for the average rider is a bad thing as it's too easy to panic and grab too much. It just doesn't leave as much room for mistakes.

Again, the firmness of the brake handle doesn't change the braking potential of the bike. Instead it only changes how the rider uses the lever to achieve the same level of braking he/she could prior to the "zip-tie trick".

Smack talk be d@mned! Are you paying karma off or are you just off the grid?

 

[NickSully]

b/s...check the laws of inertia.

It's okay to be wrong...again. I'm assume by "Laws of inertia" you mean Newtons 1st and 2nd law of motion.

Newton's first law on motion is "that any object in motion will stay in motion and that any object at rest will stay at rest unless acted on by an outside force." Braking is an outside force so the first law does not apply.

Newton's second law states that "This law is the most strongest force of the three. It states that an object accelerates in the direction of the net force that acts on it and in the opposite direction from the mass itself." This law has to do with the principle of momentum and applies in helping to find the coefficient of friction.

by your logic since weight and mass are not a factor then an unloaded semi should stop in the same distance as a loaded one does. and how they are loaded doesn't matter either.

Think about this way. If you take the same exact brake/tire setup that is on a car and put it on a truck your stopping distance will increase. No argument there. The reason why is not directly because the truck weighs more but because the weight of the truck requires more friction to stop the vehicle. That's also one of the reasons why trucks have bigger brakes and tires so they can stop in similar distances.

So for me changing the coefficient of friction is compensating for the weight differences between a car and a motorcycle because most cars will never have a coefficient that high.

Now if you really want to complicate the formula from earlier we should add in wind resistance.

 

[07vigorblue]

This is interesting stuff i dont have any popcorn but i dit get a MTN dew. LOL

 

[NickSully]

Braking, load placement, weight distribution etc.

Exactly, all this has to do with forces (friction on the tires) which is the point I'm trying to make to prove that the formula applies to motorcycles after you said it did not.

 

[cipher5791]

Thats f'd up.

 

[Mr Bogus]

ya know I am just about tired of how "crappy" the brakes are on the busa... judging by the numbers of people that buy it as first bike (not very bright IMHO btw) the last thing they need are race quality brakes.. car pulls out, guy grabs a hand full and pow.... right on the deck.. (kind of harped on this a long time ago).. If you want more brake power? change pads.. there are pads that will put the rear tire at 12:00 for you with 2 fingers.. (I know, I got some and on the street? better be aware or you are going to splat) IMO, you are better off with brakes that let you grab all you can without locking the tire. (or close to it) the amount of braking available has nothing to do with "firmness" of the lever, all that is is compressibility of the system including fluid, air, seals, hose stretch etc.. Total braking power is a function of PSI/Piston area, pad area to rotor.. soft lever can produce 100psi as well as a firm lever.. soft lever will be easier to modulate I bet...

 

[suzuki4life]

Exactly, all this has to do with forces (friction on the tires) which is the point I'm trying to make to prove that the formula applies to motorcycles after you said it did not.

you are guessing at a ratio...the given ratio applies to a car.

Once again, when you say a motorcycle that covers a broad spectrum with very different capacities.

and yes....different weight motorcycles stop at different distances. Call it weight...but friction is based on variables....road surfaces and tires just to name two.


I do understand what you are saying....here's a scenario for you

I have 2 semi's traveling at 55 mph. Both have a GVW of 80klbs. One is hauling grain and the other is hauling milk. Same vehicles...for this arguments sake....same smooth bore trailer. Which has the shortest stopping distance.

If you were taking your CDL test and asked this and got it wrong....you would fail.

Based on your facts, since they are both the same in every way but mass, they should stop the same. Ask around.