My Beloved O-Ren Has An Issue...

[JINKSTER]

Well folks?...somewhere's in the mayhem of doing my own valve adjust..screwing around dis-assying and re-assying my busa?...The following issue has cropped up...and anybody ever herad of this?...

Upon cold startup?...Oren idles fine and revs dandy...but as the engine rises to normal temps?..the idle decreases..like from 1400rpms down to 1,000rpms and then she strats stumbling badly...real bad..ultimately shutting herself down as idle quality has turned to such shid by the time she hits normal operating temps.

Things i've ruled out are the pc, gipro atre and i even deleted my old air intake temp sensor mod (where i had the iats relocated in the left ram air duct...well?..out of desperation?...it's back in it's stock location..which is fine by me as i believe this mod was making it run far to rich at idle...also?...Dakkine was over last week and we ran several different maps and ultimately wound up disconnecting both the pc and the atre yet the exhibited the same symptoms...where at first cold engine start-up she starts up great...sounds great..runs great and revs great but the rpms drop and the idle goes to shid progressively as she comes up to operating temps.

anybody gotta clue cause i'm at a loss on this one..hell...i even made a new vacuum manifold out of some new nitril hose just to rule out leaky vacuum lines on the t-bodys...i'd like to get'er running and ride this weekend but i just lost day 1 of my 3 day weekend holiday trying to trouble-shoot and remedy this but no dice...so anybody gotta 'lil help out there?  

L8R, Bill.

 

[heavybusa]

Cheeseman?

 

[JINKSTER]

10 views and nobody got any ideas?

I might also add that the symptons are the same with..

1. The airbox on or off.

2. The gipro atre connected/or not

3. The PC connected/or not

4. Despite the new t-body vacuum lines/manifold

5. Battery is fully charged and pack'in 13.5+ volts

whatever it is?...seems to be heat related...and only seems to affect the idle quality..as even when she's up to temp with a shiddy idle she still revs lightening quick and pulls like a bear.but leave her idle at temp?..and she'll coff and stall to dead...in minutes...sometimes seconds....but only when she's at temp....weirdest shid i've seen.

T.I.A. and L8R, Bill.

 

[AertepT]

Sounds like it could be a fuel filter. When at high revs, it's pulling a higher volume through it and allowing it to run right, but at low revs it may be just trickling. I don't know it was just a thought. It almost sounds like it could be a vapor lock issue. Where when it heats up it's vaporizing the fuel before it gets to the throttlebodies. Just a couple of thoughts off the top of my head. I'm not an ace mechanic by any means, but it does sound fuel related.

 

[JINKSTER]

(AertepT @ May 26 2007,11:49) Sounds like it could be a fuel filter.  When at high revs, it's pulling a higher volume through it and allowing it to run right, but at low revs it may be just trickling.  I don't know it was just a thought.  It almost sounds like it could be a vapor lock issue.  Where when it heats up it's vaporizing the fuel before it gets to the throttlebodies.  Just a couple of thoughts off the top of my head.  I'm not an ace mechanic by any means, but it does sound fuel related.

The fuel filter is in the fuel pump which is in the tank...like any FI the fuel system is under pressure and the pump chatteres up to pressure as soon as the key is turned..just as she always has..and if it was a "Low Fuel Pressure" issue where if the fuel filter was dirty or the fuel pump wasn't up to snuff?...i would think just the opposite would happen..where she'd idle fine but would run shiddy when revved up to an increased demand for fuel...but suction ain't whats pulling the fuel through the system..pressure is pushing it..then the injectors open and close on timed electronic signal.

I'm still under the assumption that's it's heat related..possibly a sensor that just can't take the elevated to normal operating temps anymore...then screws with the ecu once the engine comes up to temp...a i said..she idles just fine for the first few minutes from dead cold start-up..but once the temp needle is about a 1/4 way up?...the idle revs begin to degrade...and as it comes up to just a tick under the mid mark on the temp gage?..that's when she starts idling reeeeal shiddy...and the misses and shutdowns start occuring...weird.

 

[omslaw]

Bill, you said you checked the IAT sensor - what about the IAP sensor? May want to try that...

 

[JINKSTER]

(omslaw @ May 26 2007,12:41) Bill, you said you checked the IAT sensor - what about the IAP sensor?  May want to try that...

I wouldn't know how to begin to "TEST" the intake air pressure sensor..while i'm sure the shop manual probably spells it out but i'm certain would require special gages i probably don't have..boy this is pi$$'in me off....wifey just got home from work and asked how i am...told'er "Aggravated"...she asked why and i explained that i've been bust'in my brain and azz all day trying to get Oren back up and running properly with no luck..then just to cheer myself up?..I wrapped it up and walked back in the house smiling and informed wifey that it's all good now...she said.."Great! What was the problem?"...i told'er...

I need a new bike.

 

[tinbender0]

no codes???

 

[BigDiesel]

damn Bill that sounds crazy-Im no ace mech. by any means either, but if its gettin fuel cold, and sputters when warm?.......mebbe something to do with Fuel pressure...dunno what you might have bumped/disconnected/shorted?

but during valve work, is it possible ya had something reconnected wrong? did this occur right-away after reassembly of motor, or did the problem appear after a few runs on the freshly rebuilt engine-i.e: mebbe sensor for FP is bein 'tricked' somehow n at temp, thinks there's more fuel than there really is, so ECU corrects fuel for a non-issue n she sputters out n goes poop....

im just taking a shot in the dark bro....good luck, and hope the rest of your vacation goes better-take the wife n girls out tha house, visit some friends (who dont have bikes, that will jes pizz ya off more) n just be enjoy the time off work...



and besides-they cant watch Ugly Betty if you aint at home

(that show IS pretty 'tarded

)

 

[fasttoys1]

Hey jinks, sorry about the issue. Did this issue start right after you put her back together or did she run fine for awhile than act-up?

 

[tinbender0]

2008

 

[fasttoys1]

Big D brings up a good point. Had a couple of RV (ford) fuel pump issues. Ran good local in the N.E. Got to the midwest and it would run ok cold or at night(cooler) not in the day at temp. Both times fuel pump. Kind of apples and oranges but thought I throw it out. Has more to do with the air temp on the fuel(fuel temp) going thru the pump. But his comment brought that bact to mind. Hope you get up & running.

 

[Spudley]

Well....hmmmmmm..........your right on the fuel, if it was crapping out at mid or upper rpms "that" would be a filter or pressure issue. It's fuel injection so when FI engines don't idle it's vacuum related. If TPS isn't signaling, idle closed, it'll be putting more fuel in the mix and choking off. Validate TPS, pull sensors get a pot of hot water and check values over a range of temps, at least make sure they're reacting properly, check all electrical connectors. At idle, it's s a sensitive atmosphere of balance when warm, also check coolant temp sensor, that's been a lucky find in the past. Look for anything air related, or sensor related. When you hit it you got plenty of fuel, it's just not holding equilibrfium at idle (throttles closed). Nothing mechanical Bill, or it wouldn't spin-up. You'll find it, I've never bumped into a mechanical that's stumped me yet.

Take a moment, smoke a cig, go back to it and break down each sub system individually.......It's probably a "Homer Simpson"..........not get back in there SUPERWRENCH and knock it out.......

 

[JINKSTER]

(tinbender0 @ May 26 2007,15:16) no codes???

nope....no codes no 'lil red lights..nutt'in.

 

[omslaw]

(JINKSTER @ May 26 2007,18:51) I wouldn't know how to begin to "TEST" the intake air pressure sensor..

Swap with Dakkine when he's not looking!

 

[JINKSTER]

(BigDiesel @ May 26 2007,15) damn Bill that sounds crazy-Im no ace mech. by any means either, but if its gettin fuel cold, and sputters when warm?.......mebbe something to do with Fuel pressure...dunno what you might have bumped/disconnected/shorted?

but during valve work, is it possible ya had something reconnected wrong?  did this occur right-away after reassembly of motor, or did the problem appear after a few runs on the freshly rebuilt engine-i.e: mebbe sensor for FP is bein 'tricked' somehow n at temp, thinks there's more fuel than there really is, so ECU corrects fuel for a non-issue n she sputters out n goes poop....

im just taking a shot in the dark bro....good luck, and hope the rest of your vacation goes better-take the wife n girls out tha house, visit some friends (who dont have bikes, that will jes pizz ya off more) n just be enjoy the time off work...



and besides-they cant watch Ugly Betty if you aint at home

  (that show IS pretty 'tarded

)

ahhh...i had'er running and idling good after the valve adjust...i did have an event though where i experienced a senile moment and put my crankcase breather hose on upside down...which in turn (unbeknowns to me) conflicted with the fuel line (when the tank was lowerd) thereby putting pressure on the primary fuel line coupling which liberated itself 2 blocks away from home...i pushed'er back...took 5 minutes to discover and fix..but up till then?...she was runn'in fine..he11...the night before the fuel line connection blew i did a good 50 mile evening run..justa check'er out..that was right after the valve adjust job and all seemed well...great as a matter of fact....i dunno man...grabb'in at straws here but i'm gonna re-check t-body synch in the morning.

 

[JINKSTER]

(fasttoys1 @ May 26 2007,15:39) Hey jinks, sorry about the issue. Did this issue start right after you put her back together or did she run fine for awhile than act-up?

ran fine "then" acted up.

 

[pward76]

Can you swap the ECU with a known good one? That would rule out the ECU having gone bad (or confirm it)

 

[05BusaLe]

Fuel pump heats up and the pressure drops! Then engine dies!
Just like all the GN's I have changed a fuel pump on!
Confirm this by hooking up a fuel pressure gauge and watching it as the bike heats up!
If you dont have a gauge then fill tank with gas and run bike up to operating temp with the tank lifted up (keep the bottom of tank cool use a small fan to help) See if it stays running?
This is just my best guess

 

[bradsbusa]

thats right u need 43 # pressure