jch364
Registered
Words worthy of living by for sure.Caveat emptor... so there.
Rubb.
Oil Grade stick with 10w 40 or ???
- Thread starter TorontoBusa
- Start date
jch364
Registered
You cant get a membership up there? Costs me like $10 or so.
Hayabusa Wannabe
Registered
@jcb364, do you have a shop or the facility to do a pressure test? Personally, I think that would be the only required test and any follow up oil analysis would really only flag any failures in pressure.
Hayabusa Wannabe
Registered
Most companies will not give an individual their test routines. They may give some to their big customers (or they may not.)
Mr Brown, you came in with a premise that thin oils cannot protect against friction. That is old mythology. Based on this I suggest that you are not the person to be mentoring on motor oil test routines. Yes, a flawed mentality going into an experiment causes people to even choose the wrong experiment to focus on. So no, for people who have no knowledge of an area, a standardized test is not necessarily a standardized test. And note, I really just wanted to stop after correcting this mythology, for which you requested a peer-review study for an utter expert who backs it up. After such, that is all for you, and me, and science my friend.
So every motor oil company in history on our TV told us they offer the best protection out there. And you are going to compare test methods, product performance, and critically analyze those motor oil claims? That is kind of funny. Even you can see the humor in that?
Nope. I would do a pressure test, exactly as 540 Rat (who you dismiss until you get peer-reviews of his work) would suggest. Then I would submit a sample for him to do his proprietary test on (despite being an expert in the industry, you would dismiss this test until you got double-blind trials and a peer-review.)
No I would never do Blackstone. Those tests are mostly meaningless and create talking points for people who know absolutely nothing about what the results really should be. It will catch egregious problems in the engine, which is unlikely.
That is an view with utter paranoia considering that I have never met a person who had an engine vehicle failure due to a poor quality motor oil.
See my very concise reason above for calling it paranoia - Real World performance, that is common knowledge here among these experienced bikers, but information you are unable to accept because it falls outside a "formal paper."
I at one time spent a few years running laboratory test and co-inventing internal methods (No, don't ask, I'm not going to tell them to you, despite the fact that you think a company selling you something should tell you all of the tests they ran.)
Are you a PhD at a university?
Mr Brown
Registered
If you reject science then this conversation is over. If we cannot agree on what constitutes reliable evidence then it's pointless to carry on. If you cannot accept the flaws in your reasoning I can do nothing more to expose them to you.Most companies will not give an individual their test routines. They may give some to their big customers (or they may not.)
Mr Brown, you came in with a premise that thin oils cannot protect against friction. That is old mythology. Based on this I suggest that you are not the person to be mentoring on motor oil test routines. Yes, a flawed mentality going into an experiment causes people to even choose the wrong experiment to focus on. So no, for people who have no knowledge of an area, a standardized test is not necessarily a standardized test. And note, I really just wanted to stop after correcting this mythology, for which you requested a peer-review study for an utter expert who backs it up. After such, that is all for you, and me, and science my friend.
So every motor oil company in history on our TV told us they offer the best protection out there. And you are going to compare test methods, product performance, and critically analyze those motor oil claims? That is kind of funny. Even you can see the humor in that?
Nope. I would do a pressure test, exactly as 540 Rat (who you dismiss until you get peer-reviews of his work) would suggest. Then I would submit a sample for him to do his proprietary test on (despite being an expert in the industry, you would dismiss this test until you got double-blind trials and a peer-review.)
No I would never do Blackstone. Those tests are mostly meaningless and create talking points for people who know absolutely nothing about what the results really should be. It will catch egregious problems in the engine, which is unlikely.
That is an view with utter paranoia considering that I have never met a person who had an engine vehicle failure due to a poor quality motor oil.
See my very concise reason above for calling it paranoia - Real World performance, that is common knowledge here among these experienced bikers, but information you are unable to accept because it falls outside a "formal paper."
I at one time spent a few years running laboratory test and co-inventing internal methods (No, don't ask, I'm not going to tell them to you, despite the fact that you think a company selling you something should tell you all of the tests they ran.)
Are you a PhD at a university?
Good luck.
….sure is a lot of excitement over oil.....the owner's manual is clear on what type of oil is to be used..as long as it meets the specs and weight required along with change intervals....what else is there?
If one were going for a world record where each and every millisecond of time and speed was of vast importance, I guess this could equate to the specific type and weight of oil to be used in order to achieve this...
We could have the exact same discussion on spark plugs, coolant, brake fluid, chains/chain lube, fork oil and everything else the owner's manual recommends we use I guess.
If one were going for a world record where each and every millisecond of time and speed was of vast importance, I guess this could equate to the specific type and weight of oil to be used in order to achieve this...
We could have the exact same discussion on spark plugs, coolant, brake fluid, chains/chain lube, fork oil and everything else the owner's manual recommends we use I guess.
jch364
Registered
You are absolutely correct. same for tires, gear, air etc. My main point in resurrecting this thread was to get thoughts on the alisyn oil itself. It is an interesting discussion. Thats what makes this forum so good.
All good however this thread seems to be turning into a "who has a PhD and who is a scientist" thread.
Mr Brown
Registered
Evidently nobody and anyone, respectively...
jch364
Registered
I dont mind it at all really. I like the discussion. I learn more that way. There is a lot I dont understand and Im not ashamed to admit it. I just wish I had been able to dive into this sort of thing, thing meaning bike mechanics , when I was young. I think I would have really enjoyed it.
Hayabusa Wannabe
Registered
Yellow I am right with you. I told my mechanic to get a full synthetic and I think he found a Walmart special. Good for me, I do not care at all about oil. Let me paint a picture though. The automotive industry for many years has been in a race to the thinnest oils, for a multitude of reasons. Now we have this boutique oil that is far thinner than that specified for any engine originally built with the 30 weight engineering design in mind. If the modern engines handle this well, we just might see a shelf full of motorcycle oil copycats who go in the same direction pushing past the OEM recommendation barrier. It is cool to be ahead of the curve and see that sort of thing coming, rather than showing up in a store, being completely surprised by new labels, and starting from scratch. It is double cool to have someone right here doing it.
10 bucks...you know,I was thinking...would you like to be my new U.S. shipping guy...I mean would you like to be my new best friend?
Or perhaps something more serious
Call me...
Rubb.
And to think my Sunday school teacher...with all that Latin..said I'd never amount to anything. No idea why I got kicked out...
Rubb.
I believe the engine has to be designed to run that sort of oil. The Hayabusa engine is an over 20 yr old design.
The tolerances and oil galleries need to be just right..it's similar to running unleaded in the old car engines...they don't like it and will eventually tell you in a big way.
Tenderfoot
Registered
Although I'm using Alisyn 10/30, it was my "unscientific" research of Petron Plus that sold me on that combination.
Hayabusa Wannabe
Registered
Mr Brown, every "subjective opinion" aside, you used the incorrect SAE scale for the weight of this oil and then you subsequently dismissed units as being unimportant. You then declared yourself an authority on process and testing a motor oil. You dismiss me as being unscientific while there are products out there that I worked on that actually paid my paycheck. Any degreed science professional would call your behavior egregious.
You never answered my response to your question about work. What is your job and what type of organization do you work for? I am pretty sure that you are on the government dole. Am I correct?
You guys still at it...
Can't you just arm wrestle or something.
Pay me no mind...I'm learning a lot...using my internet dictionary a lot too.
Rubb.
Can't you just arm wrestle or something.Pay me no mind...I'm learning a lot...using my internet dictionary a lot too.
Rubb.
Hayabusa Wannabe
Registered
Rubb, you are a really gracious guys, for example with the dictionary comment for example. You are a great guy. I love you man.
I glommed onto this place hard, specifically because it has no communications majors or even so-called engineers fabricating absurd ideas that defy Newtonian physics regarding lean angle or oil viscosity, in some field that they never performed nor made a dollar at in real life, and usually being toxic and disparaging or insulting people who disagree with them, like on many of the motorsports forums. That garbage lives on in infamy in posts that people search every day. I think it is the severe problem of the Internet. It corrupts impressionable minds who think, like the poster, even though they have no knowledge of the topic, that they are qualified to pick a side and choose for themselves correct information. They cannot, and then for years those mythologies get spread ad nauseam.
This place is an extremely academic environment where, incredibly, almost all of the input from these passionate riders is dead-on and extremely valuable. I cannot tell you the proper clutch pack height or how to measure run out. Probably would lose to everyone here in a race
. However I can try to contribute to an anchor of what I know, like so many here anchor their areas of expertise and make this place what it is. Unfortunately, when that tenet that has plagued the entire web comes here, ergo someone tells us about their school degree, or their job, and declares themselves an authority on a subject, then posts fabricated nonsense, and disparages others that point it out, that anchor is permanently busted, and leaves a giant gaping hole in an otherwise robust area. I have made the decision that completely against my nature I will be utterly brutal when people do this from here on out, merely because that is what such egos seem to require, and what it may require to try to develop or plant an anchor.
Note forums do exist for amateur opinions, and this has nothing to do with that. (Who would I be to knock someone's opinion?) It is a battle against someone declaring professional authority while demonstrating sheer nonsense that defies that supposed moral authority. When the public reads that material their minds are instantly distracted as they mistakenly take it in as truth.
The only other example of significant intellectual distraction on this forum (as well as bad manners) is Red constantly regurgitating old posts. A major problem, but it lives on unfortunately.
Once Rob at @Boosted Cycle Perf wrote a comment about how certain opinions on something something turbo or what have you were nonsense. My heart actually sank. All I could think was, "I hope it is not my post. If I misdirected someone I would feel utterly terrible about it."
Just a thought about our moral responsibility here. Where anyone can post anything, tt does not mean that we should.
I glommed onto this place hard, specifically because it has no communications majors or even so-called engineers fabricating absurd ideas that defy Newtonian physics regarding lean angle or oil viscosity, in some field that they never performed nor made a dollar at in real life, and usually being toxic and disparaging or insulting people who disagree with them, like on many of the motorsports forums. That garbage lives on in infamy in posts that people search every day. I think it is the severe problem of the Internet. It corrupts impressionable minds who think, like the poster, even though they have no knowledge of the topic, that they are qualified to pick a side and choose for themselves correct information. They cannot, and then for years those mythologies get spread ad nauseam.
This place is an extremely academic environment where, incredibly, almost all of the input from these passionate riders is dead-on and extremely valuable. I cannot tell you the proper clutch pack height or how to measure run out. Probably would lose to everyone here in a race
. However I can try to contribute to an anchor of what I know, like so many here anchor their areas of expertise and make this place what it is. Unfortunately, when that tenet that has plagued the entire web comes here, ergo someone tells us about their school degree, or their job, and declares themselves an authority on a subject, then posts fabricated nonsense, and disparages others that point it out, that anchor is permanently busted, and leaves a giant gaping hole in an otherwise robust area. I have made the decision that completely against my nature I will be utterly brutal when people do this from here on out, merely because that is what such egos seem to require, and what it may require to try to develop or plant an anchor.Note forums do exist for amateur opinions, and this has nothing to do with that. (Who would I be to knock someone's opinion?) It is a battle against someone declaring professional authority while demonstrating sheer nonsense that defies that supposed moral authority. When the public reads that material their minds are instantly distracted as they mistakenly take it in as truth.
The only other example of significant intellectual distraction on this forum (as well as bad manners) is Red constantly regurgitating old posts. A major problem, but it lives on unfortunately.
Once Rob at @Boosted Cycle Perf wrote a comment about how certain opinions on something something turbo or what have you were nonsense. My heart actually sank. All I could think was, "I hope it is not my post. If I misdirected someone I would feel utterly terrible about it."
Just a thought about our moral responsibility here. Where anyone can post anything, tt does not mean that we should.
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