Okay, I'm curious...

[kod3001]

I'm glad you've asked the question Michelle.

I am against the death penalty, but I've only been against it for the last few years.  I don't believe in a tooth for a tooth, it doesn't achieve anything.

I know what you mean about taxpayers having to pay out the huge sums to keep criminals locked up, I don't like this either (even though if someone is sentenced to death), it generally costs more under the current system (appeals etc.)

My suggestion would be, put criminals away for life - where life actually means a right period of time.  I feel a lot of sentences are too short.

BUT... more to the point, I feel that criminals are treated to well in prison.  They shouldn't have TVs for crying out loud.  They should be woken up at 6 in the morning, put to work in some sort of factory, or something to give back to the community.  

They should have no pleasures, though this isn't to be confused with education (good books to read etc.).  

They should have to eat crap food, cold showers so they really know they've done something wrong.

What do you think!?

Well, at least you agree that inmates get more than many Americans could ever hope for, even if they're stuck in prison, but hey, they did it to themselves...I don't know that they'd become the better people they all claim to become if their things were taken away...my assumption is that they have all the amenities they have to keep the restless at bay.  Last thing prisons need are a bunch of pissed off inmates...they'd sue because their rights are being violated...bullsh*t...  

But, let's not forget, this IS NOT an eye for an eye society...I for one would pay to watch Susan Smith being rolled in to a lake, strapped in her car while the car filled with water as it sank in to the lake slowly, pictures of her two beautiful boys in front of her as she died a slow and agonizing drowning death...I would love to know that sexual deviants that rape and torture and eventually murder their victims, especially defenseless children, would die a most horrible and slow death.  I would sleep like a baby at night knowing that someone that decided it would be okay to lure boys to their home and then murder and eat them would die a truly horrendous death themselves, hence I applaude the death of Jeffrey Dahmer at the hands of inmates that they themselves couldn't stand to live side-by-side with someone so horrific.  I for one didn't like paying for some doctors to study him and wonder what made him tick for rest of his days.  

Hell, put it on PPV so we can all help pay for the final scenario those people deserve to die by...think it's a sick and twisted way to handle things?  Think others might be a bit deterred if they KNEW they'd die the exact way they took a life?  I wonder...

No, we don't have an eye for an eye here...so many suffer for much longer than anyone can imagine at the hands of a killer...they get off too easy getting a "quiet death" and I surely can't imagine them living out their useless lives in prison while reading books...

Michelle, I see you're rather passionate about this.

Why should inmates be given the right to sue? They shouldn't. They have taken away someone else's write to live, or to live a happy life, they should also have their rights taken away.

I'm sorry, I didn't hear about the Susan Smith thing, but from what you've posted its nasty stuff. Anything involving children makes everything that much worse - and indeed harder to deal with.

I've read about criminals over here, and particularly paedophiles. Quite often they have been killed by their fellow inmates while in prison.

As a father, I feel strongly about how rapists, and particularly paedophiles should be dealt with - cut off their organs. They'll not get any urges then.

In addition to these, some people just should never be let out. But those that do, need to gain a comprehension of what they've done... both through a hard life in prison, and by education.

If we simply kill these people, does it make us any better?

 

[lot boy]

GOVERMENT!
If we change it.......We will atleast be heading in the right direction!

We can't change the Gov. We lost control of it long ago. Sure, we can vote for a change. But the Politicians are all the same anymore. You vote a crook out and replace him with a new crook. Sad but true. When is the last time you saw an honest Politician?


David

there is a way but things would get much worse befor they got better and i dont think our people have the stomach or the  #uts to do it-so we will just elect some old, rich, white guy to replace the other old, rich, white guy.

not to say i have the stomach or the #uts to do it cause i probly dont

 

[Devious]

GOVERMENT!
If we change it.......We will atleast be heading in the right direction!

We can't change the Gov. We lost control of it long ago. Sure, we can vote for a change. But the Politicians are all the same anymore. You vote a crook out and replace him with a new crook. Sad but true. When is the last time you saw an honest Politician?


David

there is a way but things would get much worse befor they got better and i dont think our people have the stomach or the  #uts to do it-so we will just elect some old, rich, white guy to replace the other old, rich, white guy.

not to say i have the stomach or the #uts to do it cause i probly dont

Same here. I am too busy working, supporting and raising my family to try to make any serious changes. Life goes on.


David

 

[VaBusa]

I'm glad you've asked the question Michelle.

I am against the death penalty, but I've only been against it for the last few years.  I don't believe in a tooth for a tooth, it doesn't achieve anything.

I know what you mean about taxpayers having to pay out the huge sums to keep criminals locked up, I don't like this either (even though if someone is sentenced to death), it generally costs more under the current system (appeals etc.)

My suggestion would be, put criminals away for life - where life actually means a right period of time.  I feel a lot of sentences are too short.

BUT... more to the point, I feel that criminals are treated to well in prison.  They shouldn't have TVs for crying out loud.  They should be woken up at 6 in the morning, put to work in some sort of factory, or something to give back to the community.  

They should have no pleasures, though this isn't to be confused with education (good books to read etc.).  

They should have to eat crap food, cold showers so they really know they've done something wrong.

What do you think!?

Well, at least you agree that inmates get more than many Americans could ever hope for, even if they're stuck in prison, but hey, they did it to themselves...I don't know that they'd become the better people they all claim to become if their things were taken away...my assumption is that they have all the amenities they have to keep the restless at bay.  Last thing prisons need are a bunch of pissed off inmates...they'd sue because their rights are being violated...bullsh*t...  

But, let's not forget, this IS NOT an eye for an eye society...I for one would pay to watch Susan Smith being rolled in to a lake, strapped in her car while the car filled with water as it sank in to the lake slowly, pictures of her two beautiful boys in front of her as she died a slow and agonizing drowning death...I would love to know that sexual deviants that rape and torture and eventually murder their victims, especially defenseless children, would die a most horrible and slow death.  I would sleep like a baby at night knowing that someone that decided it would be okay to lure boys to their home and then murder and eat them would die a truly horrendous death themselves, hence I applaude the death of Jeffrey Dahmer at the hands of inmates that they themselves couldn't stand to live side-by-side with someone so horrific.  I for one didn't like paying for some doctors to study him and wonder what made him tick for rest of his days.  

Hell, put it on PPV so we can all help pay for the final scenario those people deserve to die by...think it's a sick and twisted way to handle things?  Think others might be a bit deterred if they KNEW they'd die the exact way they took a life?  I wonder...

No, we don't have an eye for an eye here...so many suffer for much longer than anyone can imagine at the hands of a killer...they get off too easy getting a "quiet death" and I surely can't imagine them living out their useless lives in prison while reading books...

Michelle, I see you're rather passionate about this.

Why should inmates be given the right to sue?  They shouldn't.  They have taken away someone else's write to live, or to live a happy life, they should also have their rights taken away.

I'm sorry, I didn't hear about the Susan Smith thing, but from what you've posted its nasty stuff.  Anything involving children makes everything that much worse - and indeed harder to deal with.  

I've read about criminals over here, and particularly paedophiles.  Quite often they have been killed by their fellow inmates while in prison.

As a father, I feel strongly about how rapists, and particularly paedophiles should be dealt with - cut off their organs.  They'll not get any urges then.

In addition to these, some people just should never be let out.  But those that do, need to gain a comprehension of what they've done... both through a hard life in prison, and by education.

If we simply kill these people, does it make us any better?

I am passionate about seeing so many get away with horrific crimes, being allowed to have affairs with guards in prison after they've just murdered their own children (that would be Susan Smith)...yeah, if no one wants to answer to the horrors so many go through at the hands of heartless killers, then I'll speak my mind...

America has become so PC, so "we can't have anyone's rights violated for whatever reason" that our own criminals get a better deal after committing murder than a person that's suffering from a terminal illness and truly wants to die.  Murderers don't get to suffer a horrific death as they should, yet terminal patients can suffer and linger for years?  We have those that cry foul when we put down a member of our society that couldn't live amongst others without killing, and on the other hand, we have those that suffer immeasurable pain and want to die, yet can't legally do it?  Our own rules truly contradict themselves, and it's usually because special interest groups and the "moral right" step in and cry foul at the drop of a hat.  

Whom do you trust in this world to make the rules?  Do you trust the politicians that are paid to make choices to further their careers?  Do you trust your clergy that behind closed doors do things you'd wish you didn't know about?  Do you trust yourself when in one hand you'd shoot someone for trying to steal your bike, then request a convicted murderer not die of lethal injection because he's found God or is a good man now?  Humans are truly mixed up creatures, and I'm not claiming any exception to that rule

As I said repeatedly yesterday, we ALL bring to the table our own beliefs and passion, emotion...you CAN NOT avoid it...

Does killing a person convicted of heinous crimes make the world a better place?  Well, ask yourself if that's truly the goal of the system?  I don't believe that's why we do it...it was likely meant as a deterent at one time, has now become a way of not only punishing those convicts, but offering some solace to victims' families, and keeps the rest of us from paying for someone that didn't know how be a part of society 'til the end of their days.  Charles Manson routinely ties up time and money with the parole board and will 'til the day he dies.  Should he be allowed to continually take advantage of his "rights" as a convicted murderer?  You're right, the laws are senseless when it comes to "murderer's rights", but that's America and in the world of political correctness, I'd say we'll be very slow to change any of that any time soon.

I hardly think the goal of capital punishment is to make the world a better place...on the other hand, I think we are too lax in carrying out sentences and ALL states should opt for killing those that kill, keep the appeals short and to the point, and let's get on with it.  Perhaps it WILL become the deterent it was intended to be...at this point, it's clear it is not...

And, in the end, we all just have opinions...I'm not right, I'm not wrong...I believe in the system as it stands (except let's speed it up a bit!) while others do not...I have yet to see a truly feasible answer to the problem at hand...

 

[DaCol.]

It's simple, the Death Penality is a PENALITY for someone who has cold bloodedly and calculatedly murdered someone. IT'S A PENALITY you pay for your actions. Money, Cost, Revenge, Family Closure, Deterence of someone else doing the samething or anything else is meaningless and without merit.

IT'S ------ Your Murder someone

= YOU DIE !

SIMPLE  

 

[Devious]

It's simple, the Death Penality is a PENALITY for someone who has cold bloodedly and calculatedly murdered someone. IT'S A PENALITY you pay for your actions. Money, Cost, Revenge, Family Closure, Deterence of someone else doing the samething or anything else is meaningless and without merit.

IT'S ------ Your Murder someone

= YOU DIE !

SIMPLE  

If it were only that simple. I wish it were. But to many bleeding heart liberals waiting to screw the system up...


David

 

[kod3001]

Michelle, you've raised a number of interesting points.

I think many would agree with you (myself included) that the system doesn't work too well. Political correctness seems to be causing all kinds of problems and makes me mad. We're living in a society, or should I say under governments that appear to 'pilly pally' around.

You have mentioned today, and yesterday about whether or not the death penalty serves as a deterent. I would suggest it doesn't, whether it be the time it takes between sentencing and action or not.

What does serve as a deterrent? I can't talk for all the sick minds of the murderers that have gone before us, but for me personally, I wouldn't want to end up in jail in some 3rd world country... where you'd be lucky to survive the food, treatment.

If prison life were made harder for inmates, perhaps it would make a difference, who can say.

Regards your other points about special interest groups etc., this needs further discussion. With regard to human rights etc., yes I believe that too many rights are given to the criminal, and not enough to the victim, this balance is all wrong and should be sorted.

You've mentioned that you haven't seen a feasible answer to these problems. Unfortunately nothing is black and white, we can't say this we would react in the same way in different situations. Likewise with the law, it is supposed to be black and white, but just like the Bible - its how its interepreted, and how its put into action. That said, I'm not sure we can give one answer to the problem, though you've given me something to think about.

I'm off to grab some dinner and think about the above. Interesting. Back in a bit.

 

[EastCoast]

Holy cow, Michelle. You just thrust everyone into the lion's den with this question.

 

[VaBusa]

As the system stand now, it is NOT a deterent, but it could very well be...if others saw people being put to death after their convictions, and I'm thinking "in a perfect world/case closed/no question of guilt" cases here, then off 'em. Don't allow them to sit and drain resources in prison while some public defender works to find the smallest loophole to spare his life another day...criminals see a flawed system, they see guys that sit on death row for longer than they've even been alive, and honestly, to that 20-something kid, there's no way to fathom just how long doing time like that really is. Dare I say, to many, they think it's 'forever'. So, hell, you didn't like little Johnny, kill him, do some time and always work toward getting back out...there's no deterent at all there...on that we do agree...

And why do we feel the need to keep those that plead "insanity"? Do you know what a joke it is nowadays to hear someone plead not guilty due to reason of insanity? They know they'll live out their lives as a case study...so, do the crime, say you were crazy, do the time and live out your days in a mental ward...

I know it's not this cut and dry, but there are so many cases that should be tried and done with. THAT would surely begin the process of deterring the same kind of activity...

My answer to avoiding killing off these degenerants? Put 'em all on another planet and let 'em sort each other out...seriously, aside from pooling them together in the most secure place you can think of and taking the guards out of it, I come up with nothing...

Call it "Prison Survivor" and put up cameras so we can watch...

I know, I'm twisted...

 

[EastCoast]

Call it "Prison Survivor" and put up cameras so we can watch...

 I know, I'm twisted...

Something comes to mind. Remember John Carpenter's "Escape from New York"?

 

[VaBusa]

Call it "Prison Survivor" and put up cameras so we can watch...

 I know, I'm twisted...

Something comes to mind. Remember John Carpenter's "Escape from New York"?

Yep...I was actually picturing one of the many Alien movies where the prison was on another planet...

 

[VaBusa]

Holy cow, Michelle. You just thrust everyone into the lion's den with this question.

Hey, I just wanted some real world solutions over just spouting off about how flawed the system is...

And, I'm tired of typing...

 

[Mr Brown]

The whole criminal justice system needs to be revamped. We have allowed money to infiltrate the system, and financial status is what currently determines innocence or guilt, and the severity of the punishment if convicted. Once we remove the financial aspect of the system, we will need to determine what the purpose of various facilities is. Do we attempt to rehabilitate, punish or simply warehouse criminals? If rehailitation is the answer, (as in CORRECTIONAL system/facility) then we need to seperate serious offenders from the rest. There is nothing to be gained from housing a guy that gets caught with an ounce of pot in the same facility as a guy who split someones head with a hammer. Once we have determined what constitutes a serious crime for which one must be punished, versus a less serious one for which rehabilitation would be beneficial, then we can admit decide who lives, and who dies. As far as I am concerned, pre-meditated murder, predatory sexual assault and child molestation are the three crimes which fall into this category. We should build an island in the pacific ocean, about half way to Hawaii, and drop these people from a helicopter. If they can survive the fall, and figure out how to live there, then they are allowed to do so. We would have a naval blockade at a 5 mile interval around the island, any traffic coming or going will be destroyed, no questions asked, or warnings given. Low yield nuclear warheads targeting the island that will be launched in the event of war, again no questions asked or warnings given. You get near the island, you die, you get off the island, you die, if there is a serious threat to the US, you die. Simple as that. Any prisoner condememned to death, but not wanting to go this route, will be shot on the spot.
I do not have faith in the system as it now operates, but I am not opposed to the death penalty in and of itself.

 

[VaBusa]

The whole criminal justice system needs to be revamped. We have allowed money to infiltrate the system, and financial status is what currently determines innocence or guilt, and the severity of the punishment if convicted. Once we remove the financial aspect of the system, we will need to determine what the purpose of various facilities is. Do we attempt to rehabilitate, punish or simply warehouse criminals? If rehailitation is the answer, (as in CORRECTIONAL system/facility) then we need to seperate serious offenders from the rest. There is nothing to be gained from housing a guy that gets caught with an ounce of pot in the same facility as a guy who split someones head with a hammer. Once we have determined what constitutes a serious crime for which one must be punished, versus a less serious one for which rehabilitation would be beneficial, then we can admit decide who lives, and who dies. As far as I am concerned, pre-meditated murder, predatory sexual assault and child molestation are the three crimes which fall into this category. We should build an island in the pacific ocean, about half way to Hawaii, and drop these people from a helicopter. If they can survive the fall, and figure out how to live there, then they are allowed to do so. We would have a naval blockade at a 5 mile interval around the island, any traffic coming or going will be destroyed, no questions asked, or warnings given. Low yield nuclear warheads targeting the island that will be launched in the event of war, again no questions asked or warnings given. You get near the island, you die, you get off the island, you die, if there is a serious threat to the US, you die. Simple as that. Any prisoner condememned to death, but not wanting to go this route, will be shot on the spot.
I do not have faith in the system as it now operates, but I am not opposed to the death penalty in and of itself.

Whew J! I agree...

My fingers thank you...

 

[dudewizr]

Rehabilitation is a non-existing joke.  If anyone truly had faith in rehabilitation then why would we ask a potential employee if they have ever been convicted of a crime, if I'm rehabilitated why can't I have a gun.  "Pay your debt to society" what a joke!  We have created a system that doesn't work and we make it worse because we don't trust it to work.  

The moral decay of our society isn't because of lawyers, it's due to companies like Viacom that grab the minds of children when they're not much more than 1 year old with Nickelodeon, then Nick Jr gets ahold of them and just when they get really hungry for whats cool and socially acceptable behavior in comes MTV! With all of it's trash and we (society) dump the kids in front of the tube for on average of 26 hours a week and we wonder why they're screwed up.  The average teenager is exposed 134,000 pornographically suggested images (visually and verbally) each year.  Erototoxins pour into their brains etching irreversible images of sex and violence doing more damage to their moral compass than heroine.  The fix for this source of excitement and thrill eventually leaves them feeling empty where they must act out these media engrained fantasies to keep the high going.  Until eventually it's our wives, sisters, daughters and such that fall victim to these predators that we have created.  Look at the video games, T.V. shows, music and tell me there isn't a corrolation between it's content and the moral slide of our society.  And when someone does muster up the courage to confront this situation, we (society) tell them to sit down and shut up because we want free speech.

Yeah Yeah I know if I dont like I dont have to watch it.  But somewhere right now is a 6 year old kid sitting in front of the TV memorizing the lyrics of 50 Cent.  and when he grows up wanting to Get Rich or Die Trying, we'll be standing there to throw the switch wondering what happended.

To kill is animalistic.
To seek vengeance is human.
To forgive is Godly.
Which will you be today.  

"Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord".

 

[dudewizr]

Our correctional system is a band-aid approach to an ever growing problem. we cant create a solution to the problem. we have to prevent the problem and it starts with the youth and their generation, they are the next leaders of our country. so I ask you this WHAT WILL YOU BE WILLING TO DO ABOUT IT?

 

[kod3001]

The island idea could work!!!

How about Australia!?

Or... how about a large boat, moored in shark infested waters?

 

[DaCol.]

The island idea could work!!!  

How about Australia!?

Or... how about a large boat, moored in shark infested waters?

Didn't you guys already try that  

 

 

Geezzzzz, what's wrong with just  

 

and getting it over with. Why all this dragging out and hearing what a great fella he is  

. The jerk murdered someone or several people with NO COMPASSION

for them what so ever. And I should feel for him --- Not gona happen  

 

[Wire Dawg]

We should build an island in the pacific ocean, about half way to Hawaii, and drop these people from a helicopter.

I've got the perfect location for the convicts Mr. Brown. Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands. We lob unarmed ICBMs out that way on occasion. How about PPV coverage of the convicts doin' a little dance about the time the payload is on reentry and heading their way. Maybe throw in a live one now and then to keep it interesting???

 

[gkgj72]

the answer is life in prison with 2 things--food /water/no tv--no yard time-no books-not jack but those two things and a concrete room ....for life! a small