Russia and Ukraine
- Thread starter Bumblebee
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And turned into IEDs by insurgents....
It's amazing just how many don't explode and are strewn over a vast area....my team and I went into a recently bombed area and unexploded bomblets were all over the place...
......and so much for NATO and particularly the US using their strength to work towards a peaceful solution to this invasion...
Instead they arm Ukraine with advanced and destructive weapons so the war can be prolonged...pretty much indefinitely due to vast supply and monetary spending involved.
Russia who is on the ropes is reaching out to whomever will help them including many bad actor countries....it's only a matter of time before this becomes a global conflict where all bets are off....
Instead they arm Ukraine with advanced and destructive weapons so the war can be prolonged...pretty much indefinitely due to vast supply and monetary spending involved.
Russia who is on the ropes is reaching out to whomever will help them including many bad actor countries....it's only a matter of time before this becomes a global conflict where all bets are off....
TallTom
Registered
How would you propose we bring this to an end that doesn't include these bombs?
Sanctions? We can't enforce them. Firm talking tos? Zalenski already has us s*&#$ing his c@#$. If we say no we contribute to them taking a loss. Which would make us take a loss. Which entices China.
Russia can keep grinding cities into dust. He will probably shut off the nuclear powered electricity sources. They can last a lot longer than Ukraine can. Putin has quiet support from China. Just look at who's buying the majority of Russian oil now. Strengthening them both.
Why isn't the U.S. stepping up efforts to get the other NATO nations to provide more? If Ukraine takes a loss now, nobody will say Norway or Germany or Poland lost. The loser will be America and Ukraine.
I'm sorry, I say we are committed now. Bomb the chyt out of Russian positions. Russia has already laid millions of mines. They've bombed innocent targets. Trying to be conservative now will just prolong this.
As usual the world looks to America to be the solver of all things expensive.
I’m still trying to figure out why this gets broadcasted for the entire world to know. The cluster bombs.
So we help Ukraine by letting the enemy know exactly what the next move will be, weeks before it happens????
Crazy stupid.
Gotta love the coke in the Whitehouse. That will probably be swept under the carpet.
So we help Ukraine by letting the enemy know exactly what the next move will be, weeks before it happens????
Crazy stupid.
Gotta love the coke in the Whitehouse. That will probably be swept under the carpet.
........all or nothing is what it will take.....other conflicts have been resolved at the table, why not this one? What makes this one so special?
I'll tell you what, the US loves this as they get a chance to test out their new war weapons in a near-peer conflict, that's why the US is shouldering the most financially.....if you look back at all the invasions conducted by NATO, the US was the lead player and instigator of each of those invasions. It's all about the world chess game being played.
Handing over cluster bombs won't tip the balance towards Ukraine but will add to the destruction that a non-precision weapon brings to the table.
Ukraine with their enhanced western weapon systems have laid out many, many minefields of their own and have bombed many innocent targets trying to dislodge Russian troops....
Most of the Donetsk, Crimea, Luhansk and Odesa regions are pro Russia and populated by Russian speaking people who don't want to be part of Ukraine, they even held referendums to be part of Russia but these were dismissed. Citizens of these regions are operating to slow and confuse Ukraine troops.
What direction this conflict will go is anyone's guess but if Ukraine and NATO can't or don't dislodge Russia out of their occupation zones, what then? Who will step in and to what level of involvement will this be?
America has deemed itself to be the global police force and it's future is dependent on this, if weakness is shown, the US would be finished as a global force. Strength can also come from brokering a peace accord verses shoveling weapons and equipment.
Have you been to the white house? Hundreds of people go through there every day. Frankly, it was much more likely Trump was doing coke than Biden. Remember Trump'd Vietnam was Doing Coke and trying not to get an STD.
Maybe they are trying not to use them. It's a warning to Russia. I think the Ukraine war has proven that technology has made defending much easier than being the aggressor.
I know right?
Might as well advertise troop and equipment movement while they are at it....
I had it out with an embedded media person once who reported on an OP we were going to conduct the next day....we had to scrap the OP and I had the media person removed from theater...I tried to have her and her crew investigated for collaboration with the enemy but nobody would touch that one.
Nope, I have not been to the White House. I have been to my county courthouse a few times though, and get screened and patted down from head to toe, every time they let me into the building.
But then again, Moore County NC is very Republican.
The US was unsuccessful in Vietnam, Africa, and Afghanistan. So our power over nonsymmetric opponents is dubious. This is important because it is the first time since WW II that a major world power invaded a country. Basically, the world order as we know it falls if Russia is successful. I hear people say the US wants to dominate the world but show me another victor on the battlefield who rebuilt their enemies into world powers (Japan, Italy,& Germany). We may not be perfect but we are clearly the lesser of evils.
Also if Russia got Ukraine, they would go into NATO nations - which would elevate this proxy war into a direct confrontation of superpowers and a very dangerous place for civilization as a whole. BTW: The reason we are going to cluster bombs is because of the shortage of ammo.
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LOL Arch, when you take my bait, it always leaves me with a smile.
The world was engaged in rebuilding countries decimated by WW2, the US spear-headed that effort but were not alone.
Ukraine has been in the Russian sights ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union as Russia believes Kyiv is the birthplace of their country and Crimea has historically been Russia's deep water port. How or when Russia moved to occupy Ukraine was the only real question...not if....
As it sits now, the proxy war NATO is fighting is going to escalate....that is inevitable, when is the only question there.
As for a world power invading another country:
The US invading Iraq was one where the outcome is still unknown...the country was de-stabilized allowing fringe elements such as ISIS to spawn and grow..Iraq has yet to stabilize and most likely will be like this for years to come...the whole of the Middle East is de-stabilized, Libya, Syria are all victims of this de-stabilization.
If we look back on all the instances where a world power stood in the shadows assisting a struggling country there are many...
China and Russia assisting North Korea where their forces engaged in open combat against UN troops
Russia supporting Cuba against the US
Russia assisting the NVA in Viet Nam engaging in open combat against US forces
In the early years of Viet Nam the US were there only as advisors to the South Viet Nam forces...that escalated...
US assisting the Mujahedeen against Russia in Afghanistan
And the list goes on and on.......
The world as a whole is becoming divided, the re-birth of the Iron Curtain is at hand only it will include Iran, North Korea, China and Russia....
We also have to bear in mind that all this advanced weaponry and equipment has already fallen into the hands of the enemy and I can guarantee there has been a lot of effort into not only reverse engineering it but also creating countermeasures against them.
Because of western training given to Ukrainian troops, Russian analysts are studying these tactics and will be able to develop counters to them as well....I will also guarantee there are insurgents in the mix taking part of this training, learning all they can learn and will be giving this information to their handlers.
NATO is putting a lot on the line for this proxy war and it will be used against it at some point.
Because of western training given to Ukrainian troops, Russian analysts are studying these tactics and will be able to develop counters to them as well....I will also guarantee there are insurgents in the mix taking part of this training, learning all they can learn and will be giving this information to their handlers.
NATO is putting a lot on the line for this proxy war and it will be used against it at some point.
Interesting times.
Let’s just pray no one presses a nuke button.
While I am pretty concerned about the status over here and the thought that we may be left with a choice between Biden and Trump for 2024, I think Putin is eventually going to fall. It is a matter of time.
mark3evo
Registered
you so right Bee, 20 years ago USA with only UK support - entered another ones Sovereign land, Both Bush and Blair should be in the Hague for war crimes. WMD it was bull. i see really no difference between Irag and Ukraine. Except 1/2 the country are pro Russia. it was the insurgency to boot out democratically elected Yanukovych (not perfect but tried to bring both internal sides together. The West did not like Putin offering billions in investment. So started the Ukraine process with West v East aggression.
we are where we are with many tens of thousands dead , but i for one do not blindly 'stand for Ukraine.' it iso easy for the pro war brigade to comment to continue when they sit 6,000 miles away. i for one do not want WWIII.
we need a peaceful solution fast even it it means giving them Russian speaking Luhansk
WWIII would be bad, very bad as it would go nuclear fairly rapidly.....
It would start out as low yield tactical nukes fired from cannons and then escalate into strategic ballistic nukes....
The English version of "Nostradamus" claims there will be a large nuclear explosion in 2023....whether this comes from a nuclear power plant or a deliberate nuclear weapon is anyone's guess.....
It will suck regardless.....
The Iraq action was a big mistake. I absolutely agree. Hindsight is always easy though.
I don’t see a similarity with Ukraine.
Iraq was not an invasion with the objective of incorporating it into the US as an American state. The idea was removing a threat, based on incorrect intelligence.
mark3evo
Registered
No one except USA and UK thought this was right - the whole world and UN said no
In UK special ops bumped off a key scientist said no WMD - David Kelly was murdered
US would not allow the UN inspectors to complete the audit
They knew the intelligence was wrong … result Middle East melt down - ISIS - then Syria , and now a tide of Migrants heading and coming to Western Europe and UK
Death knell for Christianity in the Middle East.
Irag allowed Christianity
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Yep, it was bad, I agree.
Worst for us, is that Saddam use to keep Iran busy and in check, much to our advantage.
Getting back to Russia and China though, I believe we stopped taking land and incorporating it as our own in 1848. Russia and China has a goal completely the opposite.
I hope by now we have learnt that the endeavor to implement our democratic values in autocratic societies will always fail.
Yet, thousands, including the Chinese try and escape their countries by trying to enter the US illegally. So, the question remains, how do we make the world a better place, if we ignore the conditions, brutality and corruption abroad, as the root cause of migration?
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