Russia and Ukraine

wreckwriter said:
Completely agree that we need to continue support for as long as it takes. Point is that certain presidential candidates have indicated that this might not happen if they're elected.
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I do not think we should have ever helped. Not one dollar. And now after billions of our money given we really have little other than cities in rubble to show for it. I also do not think it is one candidate saying support should be tailored off but instead the country as a whole. Republicans and democrats both alike are getting tired of it already. This country has been in perpetual war against somebody for decades possibly centuries. We keep saying we can’t be the worlds policeman yet we keep getting sucked into doing just that.
Stop already!!
 
Blanca BusaLess said:
I do not think we should have ever helped. Not one dollar. And now after billions of our money given we really have little other than cities in rubble to show for it. I also do not think it is one candidate saying support should be tailored off but instead the country as a whole. Republicans and democrats both alike are getting tired of it already. This country has been in perpetual war against somebody for decades possibly centuries. We keep saying we can’t be the worlds policeman yet we keep getting sucked into doing just that.
Stop already!!
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Completely disagree
 
fallenarch said:
It's called building morale. This is a great way to keep the country together. The end of the war has nothing to do with the battlefield. Putin is hoping Biden will lose and Trump will abandon Ukraine and NATO, allowing Putin to finish his original goal. Ukraine is hoping Putin falls.
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Trump was right to pressure nato, why should U.S prop up NATO when all other countries were not chipping in their share? Also Ukraine is not a part of NATO.

But on a side note Russias Wagner group took over Bakhmut a god damn mercenary group... shows how weak Ukraine is getting and they can not keep up even with the latest tech.. I've seen 2 patriot missle systems destroyed in Ukraine already.
 
JeffSyh said:
Trump was right to pressure nato, why should U.S prop up NATO when all other countries were not chipping in their share? Also Ukraine is not a part of NATO.

But on a side note Russias Wagner group took over Bakhmut a god damn mercenary group... shows how weak Ukraine is getting and they can not keep up even with the latest tech.. I've seen 2 patriot missle systems destroyed in Ukraine already.
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Ukrainian troops and officers are less than stellar....without very robust training and assistance from NATO, Russia would have stomped them..

NATO has been training Ukraine troops since around 2014....

Canada has to get rid of Trudeau and start carrying our weight in the world....our military is literally falling to pieces and it shows on the world stage.
 
Blanca BusaLess said:
I do not think we should have ever helped. Not one dollar. And now after billions of our money given we really have little other than cities in rubble to show for it. I also do not think it is one candidate saying support should be tailored off but instead the country as a whole. Republicans and democrats both alike are getting tired of it already. This country has been in perpetual war against somebody for decades possibly centuries. We keep saying we can’t be the worlds policeman yet we keep getting sucked into doing just that.
Stop already!!
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You have a fair point.....

Just like you said, the US/NATO are playing world police and it's a dangerous game to play as each and every country under threat of invasion will be expecting the same sort of support yet most likely will not get that support....

Russia has wanted Ukraine ever since the Soviet Union was dissolved and the two provinces have never really left Russia as the people who occupy them are mostly Russian citizens....there have been skirmishes between Ukraine and Russian mercenary forces for decades...so much so NATO was there training Ukrainian forces since 2014 in anticipation of the eventual foreseen invasion...

Ukraine is using mostly NATO equipment, employing NATO tactics with NATO advisors on the ground conducting command and control functions...

This war is being fought basically by NATO with Ukraine as a front which is not a good way to avoid more conflict with Russia and it's allies.

The line is being drawn...and will make the Cold War look like a vacation.
 
Just like when NATO gave the Afghan military and police forces equipment and then it got taken over by the Taliban....once the equipment is out of the hands of NATO, what happens to it is anyone's guess...even if Ukraine goes into Russia using this equipment, there is little that can be done...

Everyone was beating on the drums when the equipment given to Afghan forces was taken over by the Taliban and it was thought it was left behind-it wasn't, it was given to the Afghans who ran away from it. The same goes with all the equipment the Ukraine now has, if the conflict ends tomorrow, Ukraine will still have all that equipment and now the enemies of NATO do too through reverse engineering....

www.reuters.com

Ukraine shouldn't use US weaponry inside Russia, US general says

The United States has long asked Ukraine not to use U.S.-provided military equipment to carry out attacks inside Russian territory, the top U.S. general said on Thursday, following accusations by Russia that pro-Ukrainian militia used U.S. armored vehicles.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
JeffSyh said:
Trump was right to pressure nato, why should U.S prop up NATO when all other countries were not chipping in their share? Also Ukraine is not a part of NATO.

But on a side note Russias Wagner group took over Bakhmut a god damn mercenary group... shows how weak Ukraine is getting and they can not keep up even with the latest tech.. I've seen 2 patriot missle systems destroyed in Ukraine already.
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I said Ukraine & NATO. My point was if Trump let Putin go unchecked, he would go for NATO countries like Poland. BTW, NATO was already in the process of meeting its obligations. That started way back with W Bush. Note also that the US makes a fortune off selling arms to NATO allies. There was a feeling among our allies that NATO was the US's excuse to do mi9schief all over the world in the name of security following 9-11.
 
JeffSyh said:
Trump was right to pressure nato, why should U.S prop up NATO when all other countries were not chipping in their share? Also Ukraine is not a part of NATO.

But on a side note Russias Wagner group took over Bakhmut a god damn mercenary group... shows how weak Ukraine is getting and they can not keep up even with the latest tech.. I've seen 2 patriot missle systems destroyed in Ukraine already.
Click to expand...
Wagner Group is the largest private military in the world. When we say ‘private military’ we think of BlackWater and others. Wagner LOST over 20,000 men taking Bakhmut. It’s almost as large as one of our own military branches here. So for them to take the city I don’t think shows Ukrainian weakness. It just shows how large and capable Wagner is.
 
Blanca BusaLess said:
Wagner Group is the largest private military in the world. When we say ‘private military’ we think of BlackWater and others. Wagner LOST over 20,000 men taking Bakhmut. It’s almost as large as one of our own military branches here. So for them to take the city I don’t think shows Ukrainian weakness. It just shows how large and capable Wagner is.
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Exactly right.
 
Haven’t we been back and forth about Nazis in ukraine? It’s now being said there never were or if so not many right? If so why does this dude have a swastika tattooed on his head?
Video shows a WWI trench warfare going on. Just mud mud and more mud.
 
Blanca BusaLess said:
Haven’t we been back and forth about Nazis in ukraine? It’s now being said there never were or if so not many right? If so why does this dude have a swastika tattooed on his head?
Video shows a WWI trench warfare going on. Just mud mud and more mud.
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Probably same reason so many people here have them.
 
There are active neo-nazi units in Ukraine....NATO trainers were forbidden to train them so the units hid their identity to get training but it was hard to hide most cases...

During the German occupation in WW2, Ukraine quickly adopted the Nazi ideology......when Russia pushed the Germans out, they had to fight the Ukrainians as well.....there have been hard feeling ever since....When Russia invaded Ukraine this time, Russia figured they'd be identified as liberators and the Ukrainians would receive them with open arms....we see how that is playing out...
 
Red05 said:
Remember also that the swastika was not designed by Nazis, just adopted. It symbolized spirituality and good fortune in some cultures going back centuries and symbolizes the Buddha’s footsteps in Buddhism.
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Bumblebee said:
There are active neo-nazi units in Ukraine....NATO trainers were forbidden to train them so the units hid their identity to get training but it was hard to hide most cases...

During the German occupation in WW2, Ukraine quickly adopted the Nazi ideology......when Russia pushed the Germans out, they had to fight the Ukrainians as well.....there have been hard feeling ever since....When Russia invaded Ukraine this time, Russia figured they'd be identified as liberators and the Ukrainians would receive them with open arms....we see how that is playing out...
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Yes the swastika has been around long before the Nazis. But in this case I’m pretty sure this guy has it on his head because he’s a neo nazi. When the conflict broke out many years ago in the Donbas area and eastern Ukraine the Azov battalion was pretty much the ones who were fighting the Russian invasion. And their leader as well as most of them initially were all Nazis. As the fight grew larger Azov began to accept anyone who would fight. Now their numbers have been diluted by the sheer amount of people fighting because it’s a nationwide conflict and not regional anymore.
 
Blanca BusaLess said:
Doesn’t matter how expensive or sophisticated it is it’s in a war zone and is gonna get blowed up!! Nothing is impervious
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I don't think they (Leopards) have never been engaged in a near-peer battle before, we had them in Afghanistan but the Taliban were lacking in heavy weapons and RPG weren't effective against the armor. They had a ground mount 84mm recoiless that was pretty nasty though, it could take out the Leopard 1 but not the Leopard 2...
 
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