Russia and Ukraine

Interesting read for sure. The 1st question I have is... what did it cost the Russians to get that crude to market? Yes, it was discounted... so what... what was the bottom line profit for Russia with that discount sale? In the Bakken ( I am estimating based on numbers from 10 years ago ) they can calculate the cost per barrel to produce to be anywhere between 30 to 40 a barrel. I don't know what it cost Russia... its probably less as they don't follow environmental rules like we do here in North America. I don't know what the Russian oil workers are paid from the well to the finished product, however, I bets its less than it is here.
Russia will sell it to China as much as China wants. I don't know what it cost them to produce but it won't matter. If China will buy 10B barrels at $35 a barrel, Russia will provide it. Russia will have no economy if they can't sell it at whatever price. It will be hard to stop China from doing it. Unless we want to add them to the threat of peace.

2 years ago when I was expanding in Texas/Lousiana, $40/barrel was about the break even point. They were cheaper than the frack cost per barrel. The prices were so low we were buying buildings for a bargain price as they were liquidating to survive. They were laying off thousands.

I think I paid .86/gallon then. I posted it up here in that gas prices thread. I don't know how to search for it.
 
It still astounds me that with all the people you have within the US and very capable and intelligent people yet the last few people who were running for president were well, who they were...Hillary Clinton, Biden, Trump.....are these the best examples of leaders that can be found within the US?
That is no surprise, it should not astound you.

The way our process is structured, to find a good candidate and develop him towards presidential material is greatly flawed. Then there is the election process (electoral college) of how to become a candidate and swim through the ranks which is flawed even further. Then there is the fact that an independant who wishes to come in as a candidate who did not jump through all the ropes, has no chance to get elected. Then there is money and lobbyists.

So if you take all the above into account, those who are smart, competent, rational, successful and would fit the bill, are simply too busy making history with the American dream, to get involved with politics. They don't have time for all the sh!t mentioned above.
 
Russia will sell it to China as much as China wants. I don't know what it cost them to produce but it won't matter. If China will buy 10B barrels at $35 a barrel, Russia will provide it. Russia will have no economy if they can't sell it at whatever price. It will be hard to stop China from doing it. Unless we want to add them to the threat of peace.

2 years ago when I was expanding in Texas/Lousiana, $40/barrel was about the break even point. They were cheaper than the frack cost per barrel. The prices were so low we were buying buildings for a bargain price as they were liquidating to survive. They were laying off thousands.

I think I paid .86/gallon then. I posted it up here in that gas prices thread. I don't know how to search for it.
Fuel depends on storage. China doesn’t have room to store that much oil.
 
Fuel depends on storage. China doesn’t have room to store that much oil.
Instead of building cities where few people actually live they could have built oil storage facilities. I guess the long game for China doesn't prioritize oil as a way to move everything.

The energy business is still way behind in terms of technology advancement. I believe we are deliberately being held back from zero point energy and other tech that could end the era of big oil.
 
Instead of building cities where few people actually live they could have built oil storage facilities. I guess the long game for China doesn't prioritize oil as a way to move everything.

The energy business is still way behind in terms of technology advancement. I believe we are deliberately being held back from zero point energy and other tech that could end the era of big oil.
China had been working on strategic reserve storage. Fortunately got caught up from the chytty economy handed to them by Trump. EverGrande is just the start of what we see. They have been set back a nice little bit.
 
That is no surprise, it should not astound you.

The way our process is structured, to find a good candidate and develop him towards presidential material is greatly flawed. Then there is the election process (electoral college) of how to become a candidate and swim through the ranks which is flawed even further. Then there is the fact that an independant who wishes to come in as a candidate who did not jump through all the ropes, has no chance to get elected. Then there is money and lobbyists.

So if you take all the above into account, those who are smart, competent, rational, successful and would fit the bill, are simply too busy making history with the American dream, to get involved with politics. They don't have time for all the sh!t mentioned above.
So how did Trump get elected? He didn't take the path you described, did he?

Anyway... The way anybody gets their life turned inside out in the MSM combined with the process of running for president is enough to deter many people qualified for the job. Start by registering in all 50 states? How many people does it take to get through that pile of red tape? Countless background checks...

The job of president is a pretty prestigious and some leaders want that coveted position... I believe that is what Biden said about it some time long ago. Didn't he go on the record one time as saying he deserved to be president?
 
So how did Trump get elected? He didn't take the path you described, did he?

Anyway... The way anybody gets their life turned inside out in the MSM combined with the process of running for president is enough to deter many people qualified for the job. Start by registering in all 50 states? How many people does it take to get through that pile of red tape? Countless background checks...

The job of president is a pretty prestigious and some leaders want that coveted position... I believe that is what Biden said about it some time long ago. Didn't he go on the record one time as saying he deserved to be president?
.........or have a pile of money to buy their way in....and cover up the skeletons....
 
.........or have a pile of money to buy their way in....and cover up the skeletons....
I don't think there is a politician at that level that doesn't have both of those.

And even the junior poor broke ones like AOC now wear 15K dresses and go to 30K a plate dinners. Doesn't take long to make a good living as a politician.
 
So how did Trump get elected? He didn't take the path you described, did he?

Anyway... The way anybody gets their life turned inside out in the MSM combined with the process of running for president is enough to deter many people qualified for the job. Start by registering in all 50 states? How many people does it take to get through that pile of red tape? Countless background checks...

The job of president is a pretty prestigious and some leaders want that coveted position... I believe that is what Biden said about it some time long ago. Didn't he go on the record one time as saying he deserved to be president?
How did Trump get elected?

He was well known and accepted by many. He also spent a lot of money on politicians, during his long career to get permits and things done. So in short, he was in favor with many who took the path I described.

If one looks at two very successful people, Howard Schultz (ex Starbucks CEO) and Mike Bloomberg, they both considered running, but they were not in favor with the political crowd, and neither had any chance. IMHO, they were far superior, both of them, to Biden and Trump.
 
I will respond to this but I'm not being argumentative - I'm still trying to understand the real truth in this and what is the rational direction - so this is intended as a conversation, not a debate.

I don't know that it's changed or have we just realized (again) how crazy it is for someone to have that much power? This is not new for example, Jesus (the historical person, not the spirit), several Ceasars, Stalin, Hitler, Roosevelt, Mao, even MLK were all single people who held a lot of power.

Realize he has been consolidating the USSR again for decades and we let him do it. The Media said next to nothing while he annexed Crimea. The current Ukraine conflict has been a shooting war for 8 years already. As for where will he stop, It's very possible he just wants to reconsolidate the USSR. I don't think he has ever said otherwise - beyond complaining about NATO at his back door. Yes, Putin is ruthless and maybe a little crazy, but this was all very predictable. I'm also not so sure China will be there for Putin. If you look at their foreign policy decisions they tend to play both sides pretty well.

Taiwan will soon be like Ukraine. We are moving those production and supply capabilities to safer places. So Taiwan will also be expendable and not worth a confrontation with China over. In a sense, China may be waiting for the US to get what we need out of there so they can go in with little opposition. Typically, the Chinese are very strategic about things and think well beyond their dictator's lifespan (unlike Russia).

I don't really see a next. People don't realize how superior we are to Russia. We have been spending 10 times their military budget for as long as I can remember. It would not be easy, but we would win a conventional war and I expect a NATO wall to be waiting for the Russian occupation of Ukraine. I don't think Putin would go there because it would lay bare the fact that he is actually pretty weak.

I think it means nothing. Even if he uses a tactical. It is a fact that with nukes, "the enemy of war is war itself." It makes no sense, especially to an empirest. It's more likely Putin would disappear to some country with extradition agreements and live like a king for the rest of his days. Remember during the 50s and 60s we were all exploding all sorts of experimental test bombs all the time. The US dropped 2 on Japan with fairly localized negative impacts. Even N. Korea has exploded them underground fairly recently. So I think the Dr. Strange Love ending is a myth. Besides, narcissistic bitches kill other people but never kill themselves.

NATO is going to stop on their borders - they won't threaten Putin in Russia. So we're not going to push Putin that far into a corner. His bigger problem will be his own people and using nukes on them doesn't make sense either.

Humm, not sure this is the case. To be honest I have heard many officers say nukes are a PIA. They are costly to maintain and secure and can't be deployed. But the power is largely mythical and part of an outdated doctrine of assured mutual destruction. Frankly, smaller countries like Pakistan worry me more. Also, people don't realize that virtual wars, germ warfare, and hyper-accurate conventional weapons are at least as menacing as nukes.

A lot of things. I am told that when we react perfectly to a situation (like we have thus far in this crisis), it's because the situation has been gamed out and the strategies pre-evaluated. I have also been told that things don't go public until there is something bigger and badder already in place. We know of electromagnetic projectiles, lasers, all sorts of viruses and bacteria, EMP weapons, thermo-baric, sound disruptors, remember the Neutron bomb?

That was a different time. It's much more complicated now and this is a pretty different situation, right? Cuba was our security, this is the security of a nation we have no obligation to help. We warned Ukraine, they did not want to be a NATO country. We told them Russia's every move, they were upset that our saying Russia was going to attack was hurting their economy. The President of Ukraine is an admirable guy who certainly has his nation at heart, but there are times when discretion is the better part of valor. Had he joined NATO, this would not have happened. While Putin looks like a strongman, the truth is he's taking Ukraine because he wants it and he can. The moves made by the Ukrainian president left his country isolated and ripe for the picking.

Yes, and that is how it should be. Decisions like this need to be studied from as many perspectives as possible.

This ain't a schoolyard my friend! I wish all that was at stake is an arse whipping!
 
WW3 would start if the west does something stupid....a no fly zone would be a definite indicator of an escalation.

Western supply of arms and equipment is on the border of interference.

Just imagine if Russia was overtly supplying arms and equipment to the Iraqi military when the US was invading...that'd have gone over like a fart in church....
 
WW3 would start if the west does something stupid....a no fly zone would be a definite indicator of an escalation.

Western supply of arms and equipment is on the border of interference.

Just imagine if Russia was overtly supplying arms and equipment to the Iraqi military when the US was invading...that'd have gone over like a fart in church....
I wouldn’t know, have never farted in church.
 
WW3 would start if the west does something stupid....a no fly zone would be a definite indicator of an escalation.

Western supply of arms and equipment is on the border of interference.

Just imagine if Russia was overtly supplying arms and equipment to the Iraqi military when the US was invading...that'd have gone over like a fart in church....
If NATO sends jets like they plan to, it is pretty much NATO fighting Russia at that point. Small arms is one thing but when you start supplying a country with jets then Russia can say its straight up war.
 
I don't think there is a politician at that level that doesn't have both of those.

And even the junior poor broke ones like AOC now wear 15K dresses and go to 30K a plate dinners. Doesn't take long to make a good living as a politician.
I wonder if part of her audition for the job with 10,000 other applicants was that she had to give it up... you know... like the casting couch in Hollywood...

As far as making money as a politician goes... its one of the many perks...
 
If NATO sends jets like they plan to, it is pretty much NATO fighting Russia at that point. Small arms is one thing but when you start supplying a country with jets then Russia can say its straight up war.
True... and Putin has already declared war... now its going to get real if somebody doesn't blink soon.
 
I used it as an example. Yes I know they don't have storage capacity. But they can certainly contract for barrels over the course of time.

I don't actually know their consumption. But it's a lot.
china will invest in their Belt and road, use rail for short term

as i have seen for myself they can build 500 mile concrete elevated high speed rail in about 5 years

for long term build a pipeline
 
If NATO sends jets like they plan to, it is pretty much NATO fighting Russia at that point. Small arms is one thing but when you start supplying a country with jets then Russia can say its straight up war.
Just as long as there are no foreign fighter pilots in them it is not really any different than giving them modern, high tech drones, anti armor and anti aircraft weapons.

What the west and Ukraine don't realize is Russia is not going to stop and will destroy Ukraine as it is known before they do....Putin is determined to proceed....

Everything the west has done so far hasn't made him blink...sanctions, bolstering Ukrainian forces and saber rattling has done little to deter his intent.

With the introduction of these international mercenaries' into the Ukrainian military ranks it shows Putin what he is up against and de-escalation is off the table as far as I see it.
 
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