Russia and Ukraine

[TallTom]

Biden said it was a Ukrainian missile !

And three US officials have told the Associated Press news agency the missile could have been fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile.

They claim the Ukrainians had been trying to defend themselves against a Russian salvo aimed at their electrical infrastructure.

Moscow says missile that killed two in Poland was Ukrainian after Biden says it was 'unlikely' fired from Russia

The missile had sparked worried talk of NATO's Article 5, which means that an attack on a member country is seen as an attack on all allies.

news.sky.com

Yes but you left out that it was an errant missile from the missile intercept effort.

 

[TallTom]

Biden said it was a Ukrainian missile !

And three US officials have told the Associated Press news agency the missile could have been fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile.

They claim the Ukrainians had been trying to defend themselves against a Russian salvo aimed at their electrical infrastructure.

Moscow says missile that killed two in Poland was Ukrainian after Biden says it was 'unlikely' fired from Russia

The missile had sparked worried talk of NATO's Article 5, which means that an attack on a member country is seen as an attack on all allies.

news.sky.com

My apologies on my response. It did state it was a component of the middle defense system.

I should have read past the headline.

I am accountable for not having had my coffee yet.

 

[fallenarch]

Sort of hard to believe this hasn't happened more.

 

[Bumblebee]

This guy is just itching to drag the world into this conflict no matter what the cost is..

Of course it's not Ukrainian, they haven't been using anything made in Ukraine to fight for probably months now...

MSN

 

[TallTom]

This guy is just itching to drag the world into this conflict no matter what the cost is..

Of course it's not Ukrainian, they haven't been using anything made in Ukraine to fight for probably months now...

MSN

Yeah he got an Oscar presented by Sean Penn.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

This guy is just itching to drag the world into this conflict no matter what the cost is..

Of course it's not Ukrainian, they haven't been using anything made in Ukraine to fight for probably months now...

MSN

Just wait. Next time it’ll be a dozen missiles landing on American troops who are closer to the border than the farm that got hit is.

 

[Bumblebee]

Just wait. Next time it’ll be a dozen missiles landing on American troops who are closer to the border than the farm that got hit is.

I think it was indeed a self-defense missile that went awry...

These anti-missile platforms are experimental so anything goes.

I just dislike the fact this Zelensky character is using this as a platform to include everyone in this war.

All the media is one-sided as well....we are constantly inundated with headlines of torture chambers and other horrors inflicted by the Russians when the Ukraines take back a region.

 

[Zerks]

I think it was indeed a self-defense missile that went awry...

These anti-missile platforms are experimental so anything goes.

I just dislike the fact this Zelensky character is using this as a platform to include everyone in this war.

All the media is one-sided as well....we are constantly inundated with headlines of torture chambers and other horrors inflicted by the Russians when the Ukraines take back a region.

The Patriot intercept missiles were developed and pushed out by the brain trust of the Carlyle Group which use to be the 11th largest military contractor happened back in the 90s. That was well over 20 years ago and you are saying the Patriot weapons system has not been upgraded to be effective against the missiles in use today?

I get that everything is experimental... the game of one ups man ship never ends.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

I think it was indeed a self-defense missile that went awry...

These anti-missile platforms are experimental so anything goes.

I just dislike the fact this Zelensky character is using this as a platform to include everyone in this war.

All the media is one-sided as well....we are constantly inundated with headlines of torture chambers and other horrors inflicted by the Russians when the Ukraines take back a region.

So under article 5 ‘if one NATO member is attacked’ a response is demanded.
What exactly constitutes an attack? If the next time it is seen as on purpose, done by the Russians and still hits a farm is it war? Or does that ‘attack’ have to be on a military target, base or troops? Where is the line that must be crossed before nato can no longer excuse it and must respond militarily? That’s what they never seem to explain clearly.

 

[Bumblebee]

The Patriot intercept missiles were developed and pushed out by the brain trust of the Carlyle Group which use to be the 11th largest military contractor happened back in the 90s. That was well over 20 years ago and you are saying the Patriot weapons system has not been upgraded to be effective against the missiles in use today?

I get that everything is experimental... the game of one ups man ship never ends.

Ukraine aren't using just Patriots, they have also been given the NASAMS and Aspide systems which have yet been proven in combat..

 

[Bumblebee]

So under article 5 ‘if one NATO member is attacked’ a response is demanded.
What exactly constitutes an attack? If the next time it is seen as on purpose, done by the Russians and still hits a farm is it war? Or does that ‘attack’ have to be on a military target, base or troops? Where is the line that must be crossed before nato can no longer excuse it and must respond militarily? That’s what they never seem to explain clearly.

Hitting a farm is hardly an open act of aggression....this was more likely a guidance issue but we are led to believe by Ukraine that it was an attack on Poland even though Poland themselves have said it wasn't.

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

So under article 5 ‘if one NATO member is attacked’ a response is demanded.
What exactly constitutes an attack? If the next time it is seen as on purpose, done by the Russians and still hits a farm is it war? Or does that ‘attack’ have to be on a military target, base or troops? Where is the line that must be crossed before nato can no longer excuse it and must respond militarily? That’s what they never seem to explain clearly.

This is what article 4 participants (NATO leaders) are inbestigating (before) article 5 comes into play.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Hitting a farm is hardly an open act of aggression....this was more likely a guidance issue but we are led to believe by Ukraine that it was an attack on Poland even though Poland themselves have said it wasn't.

On this time I’m not disagreeing. Does seem like an errant shot.
But I’m asking you what if next time it is an on purpose hit on a farm?
What if it’s presented to us and the world as that?
What if it’s presented to us as an on purpose attack and it’s an apartment building that gets hit and fifty people die? Will things like this trigger a military response? Or will it be said it has to have been an attack on a military target or troops to trigger military response?
That’s what I’m asking and nobody in the public sphere has clarified.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

This is what article 4 participants (NATO leaders) are inbestigating (before) article 5 comes into play.

And we will be expected to believe them when they tell us ‘The line has been crossed and nato must respond forcefully!’?
These are the same type of people who were cousins and went to war in 1913 using a dude named Ferdinand as the final reason.

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

Who is (we)? It’s their call.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Who is (we)? It’s their call.

We the people
We the rest of the world who won’t be entitled to be in whatever room it will be when it’s determined NATO will act.
WE will simply hear on the tv ‘nato attacks Russian military in ukraine in response to yesterdays blah blah blah’.

Just kinda seems like once again the fate of millions if not more is in the hands of a few people I already don’t trust.

 

[Bumblebee]

On this time I’m not disagreeing. Does seem like an errant shot.
But I’m asking you what if next time it is an on purpose hit on a farm?
What if it’s presented to us and the world as that?
What if it’s presented to us as an on purpose attack and it’s an apartment building that gets hit and fifty people die? Will things like this trigger a military response? Or will it be said it has to have been an attack on a military target or troops to trigger military response?
That’s what I’m asking and nobody in the public sphere has clarified.

I think it will be a very hard look before NATO and article 5 is engaged....that means a world war and nobody wants that.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

I think it will be a very hard look before NATO and article 5 is engaged....that means a world war and nobody wants that.

NOBODY? Please don’t make me laugh or cry, pick one.
LOTS of people who won’t get dirty want war.

 

[Bumblebee]

NOBODY? Please don’t make me laugh or cry, pick one.
LOTS of people who won’t get dirty want war.

Nobody in their right mind that is...a world war means there will be nuclear solutions involved.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Nobody in their right mind that is...a world war means there will be nuclear solutions involved.

Not necessarily. Both sides want the land and resources. Neither wants to radiate it and make it unusable.