Russia and Ukraine

First, it's not that much money. The US has reduced the debt by 1.3 trillion in the last 2 years, including the money spent on the Ukraine war. Second, this is the safest (for the US), and cheapest way we could ever have hoped to defeat our arch-enemy, Putin. Also, the conflict has re-consolidated the coalition that built the greatest international economy in history and expanded NATO (and made NATO members stop slacking on the percent of their GDP on defense). On top of that, it's the first time we have been able to test advanced weapons in a symmetric conflict since WWII. This technology is leap-frogging because of this war. The US is depended on for the lion's share of the support because we are the only ones who have been preparing for this war for 50+ years. Our economic dominance is based on everyone allowing us to be the undisputed superpower in the world. The Ukraine conflict is exactly why the world let us have all this unchecked power.

Now if Russia steps things up to chemical or nuclear, then all bets are off.
 
Before long it will be a year that the Russians invaded and they haven't done what they set out to do.

Good thing the west stepped in or the Russians might have been successful.

There seems to be no end in sight and the commitment from the west is getting larger and more expensive, short of actually sending in combat troops the west is into this invasion up to our eye-balls.

I get a chuckle when Canada buys and ships capabilities to Ukraine of which we ourselves don't even have....our military is at an all time low when it comes to technology, equipment and people yet we have an open unabridged check book for Ukraine.
 
Bumblebee said:
Before long it will be a year that the Russians invaded and they haven't done what they set out to do.

Good thing the west stepped in or the Russians might have been successful.

There seems to be no end in sight and the commitment from the west is getting larger and more expensive, short of actually sending in combat troops the west is into this invasion up to our eye-balls.

I get a chuckle when Canada buys and ships capabilities to Ukraine of which we ourselves don't even have....our military is at an all time low when it comes to technology, equipment and people yet we have an open unabridged check book for Ukraine.
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I hope we are helping them for the correct reasons, not because them have all of the corruption on leaders in the west. Has enyont seen the tape where Biden said he withhold the billion dollars if they did not fire the prosecutor that was looking into the company is son was working for? Or was that tape fake news put out by Trump? Now what will we do if China invades Taiwan? Biden said we would go in and stop them. Is this true? Did Wendy really take the Smurf berry's to power the school in South Park?
 
At least the US isn't sending MBT to Ukraine....all they need is the Ruskies to learn how to wipe them out....

There is a huge tail needed to support these MBT, it would be a huge feat to get these sorted out and in capable for combat in a short time.
 
Bumblebee said:
At least the US isn't sending MBT to Ukraine....all they need is the Ruskies to learn how to wipe them out....

There is a huge tail needed to support these MBT, it would be a huge feat to get these sorted out and in capable for combat in a short time.
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But it would give us a good chance to see how our MBTs perform against Russia's top of the line MBTs. Fairly sure their hardware has been updated since the Gulf wars.

My personal opinion is that our stuff is far better than theirs in all cases.

I realize the difficulty of supporting the M1 but I think the chance to test it against the enemy without utilizing our own troops should not be missed.

I completely support Ukraine and giving them all possible aid.
 
wreckwriter said:
But it would give us a good chance to see how our MBTs perform against Russia's top of the line MBTs. Fairly sure their hardware has been updated since the Gulf wars.

My personal opinion is that our stuff is far better than theirs in all cases.

I realize the difficulty of supporting the M1 but I think the chance to test it against the enemy without utilizing our own troops should not be missed.

I completely support Ukraine and giving them all possible aid.
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There will come a time when NATO will have to take a "boots on the ground" approach.

As for testing this platform, it's not tank on tank warfare, drones and manpads are the weapon of choice against them....

Tanks are a huge support draw, fuel, ammo, spare parts, mechanics and recovery all have to be taken into account...modern MBT are very support reliant....they can't be fixed on a battle field and have to be recovered by very specialized equipment.

This same reason is why Ukraine didn't get laser guided munitions or western fighter jets.

I too 100% agree we as the west need to help Ukraine push Russia out of their country....but how?
 
Bumblebee said:
There will come a time when NATO will have to take a "boots on the ground" approach.

As for testing this platform, it's not tank on tank warfare, drones and manpads are the weapon of choice against them....

Tanks are a huge support draw, fuel, ammo, spare parts, mechanics and recovery all have to be taken into account...modern MBT are very support reliant....they can't be fixed on a battle field and have to be recovered by very specialized equipment.

This same reason is why Ukraine didn't get laser guided munitions or western fighter jets.
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I think they should have gotten all the goodies, including fighters.

My time in the military was "cold war". Every bit of training was geared towards fighting Russia. In my opinion they are the eternal enemy, particularly with their current leadership.

If we were to put boots on the ground we would roll over Russia in a matter of days.
 
wreckwriter said:
I think they should have gotten all the goodies, including fighters.

My time in the military was "cold war". Every bit of training was geared towards fighting Russia. In my opinion they are the eternal enemy, particularly with their current leadership.

If we were to put boots on the ground we would roll over Russia in a matter of days.
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I only read this but there were a lot of reasons why they didn't get fighters as it takes years and years to be proficient in them, and hopefully this war won't last years and years....same as laser guided munitions, the western targeting systems are not compatible with their systems...

As for tanks, they break all the time, someone has to be able to fix them and keep them going as well as fueled and stocked with ammo...not an easy feat for any military including the US who are well versed on how to do it....the Ukraine military is definitely not a modern military nor are they well trained or efficient.

I started off in the cold war era and evolved to the asymmetrical battlefield of today....warfighting has changed drastically over the years....technology has seen to that.
 
I watched a video where one of our retired generals is talking about tanks tipping the scales in Ukraine...he was an armored officer and I recall distinctly how angry he used to get when over half his fleet was broken or was unable to be serviced due to some sort of issue or another...

Now he's on the band-wagon and wants to hand these platforms over to a novice military which has very little to no support capabilities.....all they are going to do is break down, run out of fuel and be destroyed by drones...sadly.....the only way around this is to send the support units with them...thus placing NATO troops on the ground.
 
Bumblebee said:
I watched a video where one of our retired generals is talking about tanks tipping the scales in Ukraine...he was an armored officer and I recall distinctly how angry he used to get when over half his fleet was broken or was unable to be serviced due to some sort of issue or another...

Now he's on the band-wagon and wants to hand these platforms over to a novice military which has very little to no support capabilities.....all they are going to do is break down, run out of fuel and be destroyed by drones...sadly.....the only way around this is to send the support units with them...thus placing NATO troops on the ground.
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Bee. Im not too familiar with the shortcomings of the Ukrainians ability to support. But I've seen videos of them doing some pretty remarkable things with a lot of ingenuity. Remember they started this resistance with Molotov cocktails against the enemy. And have made improvised Amazon drones the hottest new weapon we have seen.
 
TallTom said:
Bee. Im not too familiar with the shortcomings of the Ukrainians ability to support. But I've seen videos of them doing some pretty remarkable things with a lot of ingenuity. Remember they started this resistance with Molotov cocktails against the enemy. And have made improvised Amazon drones the hottest new weapon we have seen.
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Western militaries have been involved in training them for several years thus far- probably since 2012 or so...they have got better but are not a modern military in the sense of the American military. They would really struggle to support a modern battle group without direct NATO assistance.

My former colleagues were involved in their training and gave me a little inside info on them.

One of their saving graces was the Russians messed up the invasion from the get-go....had it been the US invading them, they would have been conquered long ago...
 
Bumblebee said:
Western militaries have been involved in training them for several years thus far- probably since 2012 or so...they have got better but are not a modern military in the sense of the American military. They would really struggle to support a modern battle group without direct NATO assistance.

My former colleagues were involved in their training and gave me a little inside info on them.

One of their saving graces was the Russians messed up the invasion from the get-go....had it been the US invading them, they would have been conquered long ago...
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I think the politics would overcome this military shortcoming, as a way to keep piling on more hardware. If not Zalinski will come back to the U.S. and pander Congress for abandoning the cause. And he would win. He skillfully has gotten us pregnant now.
 
TallTom said:
I think the politics would overcome this military shortcoming, as a way to keep piling on more hardware. If not Zalinski will come back to the U.S. and pander Congress for abandoning the cause. And he would win. He skillfully has gotten us pregnant now.
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The Ukrainian military can get "things" but putting them into effective action are two different things...

But I agree, this is definitely a proxy war being fought between NATO and Russia using Ukraine as a vessel...
 
Bumblebee said:
The Ukrainian military can get "things" but putting them into effective action are two different things...

But I agree, this is definitely a proxy war being fought between NATO and Russia using Ukraine as a vessel...
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Hi. All that I can say is follow the money. Hunter Biden the BIG GUY and his TS papers. How did they get found? Are the Denocrats trying to get rid of Biden??????????¿¿¿
 
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