Ten innocents dead

[Mathewrussell52]

Holy crap, down another rabbit hole we go again....

You know nothing about me so keep your assumptions...

We have already established it takes a person (in most cases) to squeeze a trigger and for a person to go out and kill someone for no apparent reason establishes the fact they are not quite right in the head...however, the ample availability of assault style weapons with high capacity magazines give these people a very easy platform with which to kill large numbers of people in a relatively short period of time. Your average citizen will not use a car bomb and a knife certainly doesn't have the same impact as an assault rifle.

Media is going to report on these crimes they same as they report on all other happenings, I don't blame the media that a lunatic picks up a rifle and kills people. Do you want a media blackout every time there is a shooting in the US? You might as well get rid of all media if that's the case.

There is absolutely no requirement or need for an average citizen to have in their possession a weapon such as an assault rifle holding 30 rds. I have hunted all my life and have yet to see a fellow hunter pull up and take an AK or AR out of their trunk to hunt deer...

If you absolutely need a gun for home protection, nothing protects like a .12ga........

It’s not a need it’s a right. And the second amendment is not about hunting or home defense!
I think counting rounds is just stupid. Most people first gun as a kid is a tube fed 22 holds like 16 rounds and is fully semi automatic . Should be ban that? Average handgun 15-18 rounds also fully semiautomatic. We talk about
The armalight rifle because it’s scary to most but what makes it different than any other fully semi automatic weapon? And it is not a big powerful round it’s for small game.

 

[michael parris heuberger]

The US had these problems for centuries, there was just less media to cover it...mass killing is nothing new to the US, it's the culture which is the issue.

Hi Yes is is people they shold never have a gun. If some one wants to kill they will find a way. Steal a car or truck drive it into a big crowd or sidewalk how many can they kill?

 

[Bumblebee]

It’s not a need it’s a right. And the second amendment is not about hunting or home defense!
I think counting rounds is just stupid. Most people first gun as a kid is a tube fed 22 holds like 16 rounds and is fully semi automatic . Should be ban that? Average handgun 15-18 rounds also fully semiautomatic. We talk about
The armalight rifle because it’s scary to most but what makes it different than any other fully semi automatic weapon? And it is not a big powerful round it’s for small game.

You have a right with the 2nd amendment but that right doesn't dictate what type of arms you can bear.

Kids are generally supervised with their first gun, and not generally walking around with it.

Counting rounds may be stupid until a nut gets loose at a shopping mall with a knapsack full of 30 round magazines....and that 5.56mm round has killed millions of people so it is a dangerous round.

The ability to quickly change magazines is what makes the AR family of weapons so dangerous.

 

[Bumblebee]

Hi Yes is is people they shold never have a gun. If some one wants to kill they will find a way. Steal a car or truck drive it into a big crowd or sidewalk how many can they kill?

Convenience of killing will always gravitate towards the rifle...people have and will kill using a vehicle and it is effective to a point.

If it were more effective than a rifle, more people would be doing that vice mass shootings.

 

[michael parris heuberger]

Convenience of killing will always gravitate towards the rifle...people have and will kill using a vehicle and it is effective to a point.

If it were more effective than a rifle, more people would be doing that vice mass shootings.

Hi I am just saying that if they can not get a rifle now or in the future

 

[Bumblebee]

Hi I am just saying that if they can not get a rifle now or in the future

Maybe we'll revert back to clubs and stones...

 

[Mathewrussell52]

You have a right with the 2nd amendment but that right doesn't dictate what type of arms you can bear.

Kids are generally supervised with their first gun, and not generally walking around with it.

Counting rounds may be stupid until a nut gets loose at a shopping mall with a knapsack full of 30 round magazines....and that 5.56mm round has killed millions of people so it is a dangerous round.

The ability to quickly change magazines is what makes the AR family of weapons so dangerous.

That is debatable on what arms.

30 rounds 100 rounds 10 rounds what is the diff.

5.56 could be 308. The discussion is what makes the public safer. I’d rather be shot by 5.56.

Armalite rife magazine is no easier to change magazines than 99% of other guns.

 

[Bumblebee]

That is debatable on what arms.

30 rounds 100 rounds 10 rounds what is the diff.

5.56 could be 308. The discussion is what makes the public safer. I’d rather be shot by 5.56.

Armalite rife magazine is no easier to change magazines than 99% of other guns.

I obviously don't know your background but the ability to do sub 10 second mag changes makes the AR platform a formidable weapon to encounter...

As for round count, if a shooter has to load one round at a time into a 10 round magazine, the chances of over-taking the shooter is much better than a shooter who has multiple pre-loaded 30 rd magazines at their fingertips and can change them out quickly......that is quite a bit of fire power to encounter.

I'd rather get hit by neither round, been shot at by both and have returned fire with both and the 7.62 sure does reach out...however the AR platforms are more popular in 5.56.

When the 2nd Amendment was written, the US had no police force or formed military so it was necessary to write an amendment so the citizen's could partake in the protection of a very fledgling nation so the founding fathers ensured they could bear arms. Roll to the 21st century where the US has multiple police forces and a National Guard, Reserve force and an active force and why do citizens need to be heavily armed?

To fight an oppressive government? The same government which has one of the largest and most capable militaries in the world?

 

[fallenarch]

Actually, the continental army was formed shortly before the revolutionary war started I think in the 1774 time frame. The 2nd amendment was 10-20 years later. The founders believed the country was safe from tyranny based on how decentralized power was. Relying on guns to ensure the government functioned as a democracy would have meant perpetual skirmishes.

The 2nd amendment was proposed to get southern states to join the union. Southerners were afraid the federal government would take away arms for citizens and they needed weapons to maintain the system of slavery. It was getting very difficult to safely run a plantation. Often, plantations were cut off from the outside world for weeks at a time. On more than one occasion friends or family would go to see if all was ok only to find the owners massacred and the slaves gone. It is unclear if this was Natives or the slaves. Whites organized slave patrols to recover runners and to punish slaves suspected of more serious efforts to get free.

The 2nd Amendment ensured plantation owners would not have the guns they needed to manage slave populations. With this they were willing to join the union.

 

[Bumblebee]

Actually, the continental army was formed shortly before the revolutionary war started I think in the 1774 time frame. The 2nd amendment was 10-20 years later. The founders believed the country was safe from tyranny based on how decentralized power was. Relying on guns to ensure the government functioned as a democracy would have meant perpetual skirmishes.

The 2nd amendment was proposed to get southern states to join the union. Southerners were afraid the federal government would take away arms for citizens and they needed weapons to maintain the system of slavery. It was getting very difficult to safely run a plantation. Often, plantations were cut off from the outside world for weeks at a time. On more than one occasion friends or family would go to see if all was ok only to find the owners massacred and the slaves gone. It is unclear if this was Natives or the slaves. Whites organized slave patrols to recover runners and to punish slaves suspected of more serious efforts to get free.

The 2nd Amendment ensured plantation owners would not have the guns they needed to manage slave populations. With this they were willing to join the union.

Awesome explanation...

I only can speak on what I read and not taught..

Second Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

“The 2nd Amendment ensured plantation owners would not have the guns they needed to manage slave populations. With this they were willing to join the union.”

Would (would) have.

 

[jellyrug]

So here is an innocent question to all those who want more gun control and all those who want their 2nd amendment rights protected against gun control.

I grew up in a country where there was more freedom than in the US (back then, it’s a mess today).

Yet there was proper gun control with extremely simple measures.

1.) You could own as many guns as you liked, including automatic assault weapons, however each individual firearm needed its individual permit, registered in your name.
2.) Each individual permit registration went through your local police station and included a background check.
3.) You did not need a carry permit, could carry anywhere, however you needed to have the specific firearm carried permit with you.
4.) Each permit was issued with a bullet barrel imprint through the barrel and it went into a database.
5.) If you lose a firearm, it needs to be reported immediately, whether it was theft or for whatever reason. If it was negligence, it may be a serious offense and you may no longer have the privilege of owning firearms.

From all the above it follows that firearm owners are checked not to be criminals and have reasonable responsible values. If a crime takes place with a firearm and they find the firearm it can immediately be traced back to its legal owner. If they only retrieve the bullet or casing, chances are they will trace it back to its owner. Illegally owned firearms are rare, as disposing or loosing a firearm is a pretty serious offense and only the permit holder is allowed to have possession.

The one thing I have never understood here in the US is it is fine to open carry, but pull your sweater over the gun, then you need a permit. It makes no sense.

 

[fallenarch]

So here is an innocent question to all those who want more gun control and all those who want their 2nd amendment rights protected against gun control.

I grew up in a country where there was more freedom than in the US (back then, it’s a mess today).

Yet there was proper gun control with extremely simple measures.

1.) You could own as many guns as you liked, including automatic assault weapons, however each individual firearm needed its individual permit, registered in your name.
2.) Each individual permit registration went through your local police station and included a background check.
3.) You did not need a carry permit, could carry anywhere, however you needed to have the specific firearm carried permit with you.
4.) Each permit was issued with a bullet barrel imprint through the barrel and it went into a database.
5.) If you lose a firearm, it needs to be reported immediately, whether it was theft or for whatever reason. If it was negligence, it may be a serious offense and you may no longer have the privilege of owning firearms.

From all the above it follows that firearm owners are checked not to be criminals and have reasonable responsible values. If a crime takes place with a firearm and they find the firearm it can immediately be traced back to its legal owner. If they only retrieve the bullet or casing, chances are they will trace it back to its owner. Illegally owned firearms are rare, as disposing or loosing a firearm is a pretty serious offense and only the permit holder is allowed to have possession.

The one thing I have never understood here in the US is it is fine to open carry, but pull your sweater over the gun, then you need a permit. It makes no sense.

Sounds reasonable to me. I will say that the mass shooter is not going to care if they can identify the gun from the rounds recovered at the scene. I suppose I would add a cool-down period. You apply for the gun and it takes 2 weeks or maybe even a month before you are allowed to purchase.

What I like about that system is that it starts to put some of the responsibility back on the gun owner for the right to carry a weapon. Right now society bears the brunt of the damage if something happens with your gun.

 

[Red05]

Hi what are you trying to do? May be we should ban screw drivers like the ones with the sharp point. Or even knives as they kill more people than rifles.

When you begin your post comparing an automatic assault rifle to a screwdriver, it's hard to keep reading.

 

[busabobh]

At 10 years old got my first 22, at 14 my first scooter. I could buy ammo on my own and me and my little brother would go up in the mountains and plink away all day long. My Dad did teach us safety and handling. Never a problem, how times have changed, and the people also.

 

[JeffSyh]

When you begin your post comparing an automatic assault rifle to a screwdriver, it's hard to keep reading.

An automatic assault rifle? Have you ever seen a fully automatic gun or used one? he used a AR-556 which is semi auto... your ignorance is amazing it's people like you who scream for more laws from a useless government! But I could go pick up a mini 14 off the shelf and you would say oh that just a hunting rifle when it has the exact same capabilities as a AR-556... all I would have to do is cut it down...

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

My wood stock .44 carbine is semi auto as well but not magazine fed. Looks nothing like an AR. Rounds go in one at a time thru the bottom until full, one in the pipe and four under. My .22 LR AR-7 is also semi auto and is mag fed, standard mag holds eight rounds and in CA only ten round mags are legal. It looks more like a short AR or even a kids rifle as when taken down the barrel and receiver fits inside the stock...and it even floats!

Machine guns (fully auto) are illegal in the US unless you have a FFL, federal firearms license and in some areas, a collector’s license is required. Carrying one anywhere in public is illegal. Not so with AR type rifles or any rifles for that matter in many states. Mag size also varies from one place to another.

 

[fallenarch]

For me, a rifle is an inherently offensive weapon as it is primarily used for targets more than 10 feet away. Yes, it can be deadly in close-quarters confrontations, but it's for engaging the enemy from longer distances. Legally I'm told that to defend a shooting, I need to be able to "prove a reasonable assumption of a direct and imminent threat of harm to myself or if protecting my family would expose me to harm." So it could be complicated (and expensive) to prove imminent harm when you shoot someone from 25-30 feet. Obviously, in a military environment, you want to engage and disable the enemy as far from you as possible. So it seems like what makes tactical sense is at odds with what makes legal sense. I do have long guns, including a semi-automatic shotgun. But they are only for fun at the range or armageddon.

Of course, I was never in the military so that's my amateur opinion.

 

[macka]

gun regulations in Australia; semi auto miltary style > Banned
As a restricted category firearm, anyone who wishes to own one must demonstrate a need for the rifle that cannot be met by bolt-, lever- or pump-action rifles or single-shot rifles. You have to prove you have a legitimate need for such a rifle.
as a result they havn't had a mass shooting in 22 years
tough gun laws in australia resulted in a drop of gun suicide by 80%

Gun regulations for New Zealand;
all semi auto military type rifles are Banned, not permitted, not needed, no usefulness, the people don't want them

 

[Bumblebee]

An automatic assault rifle? Have you ever seen a fully automatic gun or used one? he used a AR-556 which is semi auto... your ignorance is amazing it's people like you who scream for more laws from a useless government! But I could go pick up a mini 14 off the shelf and you would say oh that just a hunting rifle when it has the exact same capabilities as a AR-556... all I would have to do is cut it down...

Easy big man, easy.....Red is a solid poster around here

You won't be picking a mini-14 off the shelf here in Canada as they are banned...

...and a mini-14 has the same round size but not the same capabilities...as I explained before the ability to conduct rapid mag changes is what separates the AR from many other platforms. The two rifles might even have the same magazine capacity but when a person can do a mag change in sub 10 seconds, that's the game changer....

As a guy who has spent more than his fair share with weapons of every sort in my hands, weapons such as these have no place in society.