God Bless the officer and his family.
The difference a decision can make
- Thread starter captain
- Start date
I don't think so! Not me! Next time look it up....(RCKTMAN @ Jan. 27 2007,19:24)DEFINITION OF A LIBERAL(Poppy @ Jan. 27 2007,16:13) Oh, I'm glad we have LEO's sworn to uphold the written laws of the land and that we DON'T govern by people's feelings, beliefs, and thoughts.
lib·er·al /ˈlɪbərəl, ˈlɪbrəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. (often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
8. open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.
9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.
10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.
11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.
12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts.
13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.
–noun 14. a person of liberal principles or views, esp. in politics or religion.
15. (often initial capital letter) a member of a liberal party in politics, esp. of the Liberal party in Great Britain.
I guess it is alright for us to run 130 mph through residential areas, school zones or anywhere we choose? If a cop is following us or not, does that make it ok? If the person speeding would have hit a child crossing the road, I guess they should just get a smack on the hand and be sent on their way? I guess endangering everones life by excessively speeding is ok in somes eyes here. Yes, I own a Busa, yes I speed once in a while, but I do not go through areas that would be dangerous at 45 miles an hour over 130. If he was doing this and did not know he was being chased, was this something you would want happening near your home and not have a police officer try to stop him?(craigntx @ Jan. 27 2007,13:48)sometimes the popo is so far back the biker dont even know he's there. especially with a helmet on, blocking your hearing. also when hauling azz, you usually dont constantly watch the rear views.(dadofthree @ Jan. 27 2007,11:15)Let's see, I ran because I didn't know I was being pursued
In the state of SC it doesn't matter. The law for Failure to Stop When Signaled specifically states no excuses.
Did he really know he was a damn criminal.
now if homey is turning around and obviously sees the cops, thats 1 thing.
all im sayin is sometimes we dont even know the cops there.
say you zoom by a hidden cop. he pulls out and a truck runs him over, kills him.
ok, say youve made a couple of turns soon after you picked him up. if the cop loses control in the turn, is that the bikes fault?
Let's steer away from slamming one another brothers. The debate has ended and we have lost the debate when this begins. It is extremely hard for anyone to fully understand and appreciate regardless of the debate what someone else does without being there. It is an intensely emotional subject for law enforcement. We typically die early due to the risk we accept, the constant stress we're under, and the bad habits ( doughnut jokes apply ) we pick up. Fast Foods on the fly, when we get to eat and when we get to finish eating. We sit at our dining experience with our radios turned on low waiting for the next call. Dumbazzes, right. I've tried to explain as best I can and many others have on this thread as well. Bottom line none of us with the possible exception of Cap have any insight to the exact circumstances of this case. The examples have already been noted in this thread. It always seems to be law enforcements fought regardless. It is a thankless duty. Most of us do the job because we're stupid enough to think we can help and make a difference. Believe me it's not for money and benefits, and it sure as hell isn't for the praise. Everybody be safe out there.
Amen, I loved what I did and everyone hated me (atleast how I felt). The pay, Well I will not tell you what I made, but I could have legally received food stamps at my starting pay.(dadofthree @ Jan. 27 2007,18:59) Let's steer away from slamming one another brothers. The debate has ended and we have lost the debate when this begins. It is extremely hard for anyone to fully understand and appreciate regardless of the debate what someone else does without being there. It is an intensely emotional subject for law enforcement. We typically die early due to the risk we accept, the constant stress we're under, and the bad habits ( doughnut jokes apply ) we pick up. Fast Foods on the fly, when we get to eat and when we get to finish eating. We sit at our dining experience with our radios turned on low waiting for the next call. Dumbazzes, right. I've tried to explain as best I can and many others have on this thread as well. Bottom line none of us with the possible exception of Cap have any insight to the exact circumstances of this case. The examples have already been noted in this thread. It always seems to be law enforcements fought regardless. It is a thankless duty. Most of us do the job because we're stupid enough to think we can help and make a difference. Believe me it's not for money and benefits, and it sure as hell isn't for the praise. Everybody be safe out there.
More pass the buck sh!t. Where does it end? Next time you're driving 5 mph over the speed limit and a cop makes a u-turn to ticket you and gets squashed by a semi in the process, do you get 45 years in jail?
You were breaking the law and if you weren't speeding the cop would not have had to turn around and come after you. He would still be alive!
It's @#$!&* up when a drunk driver directly kills someone and gets a slap on the wrist all while at the same time they send someone to jail for 45 years for indirecly (if you could even call it that) causing someone to die. This is happening more and more often like the guy on the Busa racing a Porsche last year and everytime it's because a cop was killed.
It's a fine line that's being crossed more and more everyday and eventually this police nation will have any excuse to lock us up and throw away the key.
What if the scenerio was a little different and the cop chasing a motorcycle at "break-neck" speeds in a 3000 lb car slammed into Mr. Peebles and killed him.
Would we send the cop to jail for 45 years because of his stupid decision and inability to control his car?
A few years back we had two over paid boy scouts responding to a suicide call. They both blew through a busy intersection at insane speeds with no sirens on. Guy on his motorcycle had a green light and proceeded through only to be t-boned and killed on the spot by a police car. I was at that intersection on my bike about an hour earlier. Few newspaper articles and everything got hushed up. I guarantee the cop that nailed him didn't do a days worth of jail time and as far as I've been able to find out he didn't even lose his job.
Maybe they blamed it on the guy that commited suicide and sentenced him to 45 years in jail?
You were breaking the law and if you weren't speeding the cop would not have had to turn around and come after you. He would still be alive!
It's @#$!&* up when a drunk driver directly kills someone and gets a slap on the wrist all while at the same time they send someone to jail for 45 years for indirecly (if you could even call it that) causing someone to die. This is happening more and more often like the guy on the Busa racing a Porsche last year and everytime it's because a cop was killed.
It's a fine line that's being crossed more and more everyday and eventually this police nation will have any excuse to lock us up and throw away the key.
What if the scenerio was a little different and the cop chasing a motorcycle at "break-neck" speeds in a 3000 lb car slammed into Mr. Peebles and killed him.
Would we send the cop to jail for 45 years because of his stupid decision and inability to control his car?
A few years back we had two over paid boy scouts responding to a suicide call. They both blew through a busy intersection at insane speeds with no sirens on. Guy on his motorcycle had a green light and proceeded through only to be t-boned and killed on the spot by a police car. I was at that intersection on my bike about an hour earlier. Few newspaper articles and everything got hushed up. I guarantee the cop that nailed him didn't do a days worth of jail time and as far as I've been able to find out he didn't even lose his job.
Maybe they blamed it on the guy that commited suicide and sentenced him to 45 years in jail?
A few months ago we had a LEO here in Kansas City go to jail for manslaughter after he crashed into a vehicle during a persuit, killing the driver. All departments have strict policy in regards to persuit. If not followed, the officer is subject to the same legal system as we all are. Should the guy on the stolen bike get locked up for murder? I don't know and it really doesn't matter what you and I think, a jury made the decision that it was murder. I think the best thing about this thread is that if anyone that has read this is ever in the position to consider running from the law, they will think about this and do the SMART thing and pull over.
SECTION 56-5-760. Operation of authorized emergency vehicles.
(A) The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle, when responding to an emergency call or when in the pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law or when responding to but not upon returning from a fire alarm, may exercise the privileges set forth in this section, but subject to the conditions of this section.
(B) The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle may:
(1) park or stand, notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter;
(2) proceed past a red or stop signal or stop sign but only after slowing down as may be necessary for safe operation;
(3) exceed the maximum speed limit if he does not endanger life or property;
(4) disregard regulations governing direction of movement or turning in specified directions.
© The exemptions in this section granted to an authorized emergency vehicle apply only when the vehicle is making use of an audible signal meeting the requirements of Section 56-5-4970 and visual signals meeting the requirements of Section 56-5-4700 of this chapter, except that an authorized emergency vehicle operated as a police vehicle need not use an audible signal nor display a visual signal when the vehicle is being used to:
(1) obtain evidence of a speeding violation;
(2) respond to a suspected crime in progress when use of an audible or visual signal, or both, could reasonably result in the destruction of evidence or escape of a suspect; or
(3) surveil another vehicle or its occupants who are suspected of involvement in a crime.
(D) The provisions of this section do not relieve the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard for the safety of all persons.
(E) The Criminal Justice Academy shall promulgate regulations pursuant to the Administrative Procedures Act so as to provide uniform guidelines and training programs for law enforcement agencies which use emergency vehicles. Law enforcement agencies authorized to use emergency vehicles shall use the regulations developed by the Criminal Justice Academy to provide written guidelines and to provide training programs for its officers and employees regarding the operation of emergency vehicles.
(A) The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle, when responding to an emergency call or when in the pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law or when responding to but not upon returning from a fire alarm, may exercise the privileges set forth in this section, but subject to the conditions of this section.
(B) The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle may:
(1) park or stand, notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter;
(2) proceed past a red or stop signal or stop sign but only after slowing down as may be necessary for safe operation;
(3) exceed the maximum speed limit if he does not endanger life or property;
(4) disregard regulations governing direction of movement or turning in specified directions.
© The exemptions in this section granted to an authorized emergency vehicle apply only when the vehicle is making use of an audible signal meeting the requirements of Section 56-5-4970 and visual signals meeting the requirements of Section 56-5-4700 of this chapter, except that an authorized emergency vehicle operated as a police vehicle need not use an audible signal nor display a visual signal when the vehicle is being used to:
(1) obtain evidence of a speeding violation;
(2) respond to a suspected crime in progress when use of an audible or visual signal, or both, could reasonably result in the destruction of evidence or escape of a suspect; or
(3) surveil another vehicle or its occupants who are suspected of involvement in a crime.
(D) The provisions of this section do not relieve the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard for the safety of all persons.
(E) The Criminal Justice Academy shall promulgate regulations pursuant to the Administrative Procedures Act so as to provide uniform guidelines and training programs for law enforcement agencies which use emergency vehicles. Law enforcement agencies authorized to use emergency vehicles shall use the regulations developed by the Criminal Justice Academy to provide written guidelines and to provide training programs for its officers and employees regarding the operation of emergency vehicles.
You see, this is where I have a problem with this.
By the letter of the law, a crime "where somone who intentionally kills their wife in the spur of the moment" and a crime "where a bike thief who flees from law enforcement and a LEO dies becuase of an unrelated vehicle that causes the LEO to lose control and crash" are EQUAL
Come on! Do you really think those crimes are equal. Hell NO!
3rd degree murder/manslaughter sure, that would be better, but not 2nd degree.
I'm not arguing who is responsible, I'm arguing about the defination of the crime. If the biker ran the cop off the road, then yes 2nd degree murder is an appropriate charge.
And maybe I'm wrong, but I have NEVER heard of any felon being charged with 2nd degree murder because a civillian died as a result of a high speed chase. Only in instances when a cop died. I have a lot of respect for law abiding cops, but a cop's death isn't any more of a crime than a civillian's death! A person is a person.
Maybe it's because their not in the process of committing a felony
I don't think it would matter if it was a felony or not.... maybe it was just for a simple speeding ticket.
I relate this situation to the following
that would be like saying the president/goverment should have to "suffer" because I chose to go to into the military and I got stationed in iraq and got killed by some iraq soldier. The goverment was not really at fault for my death but they are indirectly related to my death because they stationed me when I was in danger.
I don't think it should matter what the criminal is doing, the leo should observe the situation and make the correct judgement call on how to proceed with the situation. If pursuit was deemed the correct option, then GREAT.... catch the bastid theif. BUT if the leo looses control of his vehicle and dies... I think that should fall under you know the risk of the job.......
I relate this situation to the following
that would be like saying the president/goverment should have to "suffer" because I chose to go to into the military and I got stationed in iraq and got killed by some iraq soldier. The goverment was not really at fault for my death but they are indirectly related to my death because they stationed me when I was in danger.
I don't think it should matter what the criminal is doing, the leo should observe the situation and make the correct judgement call on how to proceed with the situation. If pursuit was deemed the correct option, then GREAT.... catch the bastid theif. BUT if the leo looses control of his vehicle and dies... I think that should fall under you know the risk of the job.......
I have the utmost respect for our Law Enforcement officers and I thank every one of them I meet just like I do our military personnel who put their a$$ on the line every day for us.
With that said only one person was responsible for deciding to drive on a high speed chase and put himself and others in harm's way. Ultimately he wound up dead. As sorrry as that makes me that doesn't mean someone should be blamed for his poor judgement. Yes he would not have been there if the perp was not running but he made a choice, a bad one, to follow.
Do I want to see someone hang for this? Sure I do, but we are not supposed to judge people based on feelings. We are supposed to judge them based on the law.
May he rest in peace. My heart goes out to him and his entire family.
With that said only one person was responsible for deciding to drive on a high speed chase and put himself and others in harm's way. Ultimately he wound up dead. As sorrry as that makes me that doesn't mean someone should be blamed for his poor judgement. Yes he would not have been there if the perp was not running but he made a choice, a bad one, to follow.
Do I want to see someone hang for this? Sure I do, but we are not supposed to judge people based on feelings. We are supposed to judge them based on the law.
May he rest in peace. My heart goes out to him and his entire family.
CB--you're mixing two degrees of murder ("where somone who intentionally kills their wife in the spur of the moment"). If it involves "intent," then it's first degree, and if it's "spur of the moment," then it's no more than second degree.(Charlesbusa @ Jan. 27 2007,22)
You see, this is where I have a problem with this.
By the letter of the law, a crime "where somone who intentionally kills their wife in the spur of the moment" and a crime "where a bike thief who flees from law enforcement and a LEO dies becuase of an unrelated vehicle that causes the LEO to lose control and crash" are EQUAL
Come on! Do you really think those crimes are equal. Hell NO!
3rd degree murder/manslaughter sure, that would be better, but not 2nd degree.
I'm not arguing who is responsible, I'm arguing about the defination of the crime. If the biker ran the cop off the road, then yes 2nd degree murder is an appropriate charge.
And maybe I'm wrong, but I have NEVER heard of any felon being charged with 2nd degree murder because a civillian died as a result of a high speed chase. Only in instances when a cop died. I have a lot of respect for law abiding cops, but a cop's death isn't any more of a crime than a civillian's death! A person is a person.
Anyway, don't blame the lawyers and judges and juries on this one--it's us, the public, who writes the laws. If it's wrong there, then that's where it needs to be changed.
TruWrecks
Banned
The decision for the rider to run: Bad.
The decision for the officer to chase at high speeds: Even worse.
Several states have adopted "No High Speed Chase" policies to reduce this very problem. When someone wants to flee, it doesn't matter what their driving. If they're being chased they'll always push their vehicle to speeds that are unsafe for the conditions!
Didn't the article say that the officer tried to pull him over? Was he close enough to read the plate (if there was one). If he did they could have picked the kid up at his house later on.
Bottom line:
They both made terrible decisions that ruined one life, and ended another!
The decision for the officer to chase at high speeds: Even worse.
Several states have adopted "No High Speed Chase" policies to reduce this very problem. When someone wants to flee, it doesn't matter what their driving. If they're being chased they'll always push their vehicle to speeds that are unsafe for the conditions!
Didn't the article say that the officer tried to pull him over? Was he close enough to read the plate (if there was one). If he did they could have picked the kid up at his house later on.
Bottom line:
They both made terrible decisions that ruined one life, and ended another!
Was he close enough to read the plate (if there was one). If he did they could have picked the kid up at his house later on.
[/Quote]
STOLEN MOTORCYCLE
So it's beginning to look like that Florida law to confiscate bikes is OK with you guys now?
[/Quote]
STOLEN MOTORCYCLE
So it's beginning to look like that Florida law to confiscate bikes is OK with you guys now?
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