The difference a decision can make

[GSXTacy]

(Charlesbusa @ Jan. 28 2007,17:16)

(Professor @ Jan. 28 2007,12:31) Kyle Wayne Grider should have already been in jail so he did not have the opportunity to steal the bike. If the justice system had done their part, he would have been in jail.

Look at this list. He would not have been able to commit the last two and likely many more he was never charged with.


Count as Filed: RCSP, CONCEALING STOLEN PROPERTY ,
Date Of Offense: 09/14/2004

Count as Filed: DU2II, POSSESSION OF A CDS ( METH ) SCHD II ,
Date Of Offense: 09/14/2004
Count as Filed: BRG2, BURGLARY - SECOND DEGREE
Date Of Offense: 10/09/2005

Count as Filed: BRG2, Burglary in the second degree ,
Date Of Offense: 09/13/2004

2005-93 MUSK Uttering Forged Instruments 5 Y DEFERRED 07/21/2005 07/20/2010
2005-93 MUSK Rec/Poss/Conc Stolen Property 5 Y DEFERRED 07/21/2005 07/20/2010

Count as Filed: HM12, MURDER - SECOND DEGREE ,
Date Of Offense: 10/20/2005

Count as Filed: ES6, AGGRAVATED ELUDING A POLICE OFFICER ,
Date Of Offense: 10/20/2005

I agree, he never should have been on the streets.

Look at those dates, 2004 and 2005!!  How'd he get out of jail so quick.  

I can solve this one for ya Charles.

In Illinois (which is comparable to most states) a one year sentence = 61 days actually served. Day for day and good time are BS.

This is why alot of guys cop out to two or three years in state prison over a year in county. They do less time on a 3 year bit in state prison then a one year bit in county. I aint saying its right, but thats how it is.

 

[Charlesbusa]

I think I'm more confused now than before on what 1st, 2nd, and 3rd degree murder is

I think some states are rewritting the definations.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't have to be on a stolen bike to be committing a felony. I believe evading the police is a felony. So the minute you don't stop for a cop on your own bike, you're responsible for any deaths that occur. The fact that the bike is stolen doesn't even matter. That case in FL where the bike ran and the cop's cruiser blew a tire, wasn't a stolen bike, and the guy was convicted of 2nd degree murder.

 

[captain]

(Charlesbusa @ Jan. 30 2007,13:09)

I think I'm more confused now than before on what 1st, 2nd, and 3rd degree murder is  

 I think some states are rewritting the definations.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't have to be on a stolen bike to be committing a felony.  I believe evading the police is a felony.  So the minute you don't stop for a cop on your own bike, you're responsible for any deaths that occur.  The fact that the bike is stolen doesn't even matter.  That case in FL where the bike ran and the cop's cruiser blew a tire, wasn't a stolen bike, and the guy was convicted of 2nd degree murder.

It depends on the state laws.... I used to chased bad people for 50 miles and 5 different counties and the whole time it was a misdameanor for DUI or whatever. Rick isnt OK still that way UNLESS the person running commits a felony like ramming a PD unit or its automatically a felony if the person was running while in the comission of a felony......

Joe blow holds up a liqour store and the PD pulls up and he runs..... Double felony.......

also

This is why alot of guys cop out to two or three years in state prison over a year in county. They do less time on a 3 year bit in state prison then a one year bit in county. I aint saying its right, but thats how it is.[/Quote]

I would serve my time in county..... maybe more but you cant have a felony in county jail....... You would not be a convicted felon when you were released.

cap

 

[mvanlone]

I don't think this guy should had been convicted for the crime of murder, manslaughter or anything. The police officer was killed by making the choice of pursuing and knows the dangers of this. Out here in Ohio a man took off from a police officer and swam out in a river and made it to the other side. A officer trying to catch him could not swim good enough and drowned. So now they charge this guy for his death. It is a bunch of BS!!!! It is part of the job that these police officers took this job. The police have to take some responsbility for their own actions. Remember, the chase in I think in Las Vegas and the 2 helicopters collided, they were trying ways to blame that on the guy that they were video taking running from the scene. Bunch of BS....

 

[Rhythm]

The officer was doing his job but ultimately he has a responsibility to his family to return home ! For example if I was put in a situation where I had to defended my family (my job) from someone who broke into my house and killed them. I would be in jail for murder defending  my family. If it were not for his own actions the bugular in question would not be dead urglar or me in jail trying to prove my actions of defending my family

I feel sorry for the officer family and friends but like its been mention, with today tech the officer life could have been spared.  
The officer made a bad decision to chase and should have used other resources to catch the crook. Luckily no one else was killed. The officer could have easily killed someone else while in pursuit.

My second statement is usually what you and I will hear from the police and judicail system in a situation of defending our family (double standard).

 

[PocketRocket]

The state or( GOV.) makes laws to gain personal control over its sheeple. Prisons make $$ By having prisoners... Every Gov. is about control and $$. Wear your seatbelt or else It cost you $$$ . But not kids in school buses!! Because it cost the gov. money then... when we as an individual makes a mistake its a crime.. BUT when the system makes a mistake its just a mistake...Anyone see the show last nite with Randy Weaver?? That should say enough.. They just passed a law here in TN that you cant talk on the phone while driving..But Popo an work the radar , use the computer, talk on the rasio and his phone and its ok.. Its called double standards.. If you are speeding ( IE 70 in a 30) PoPO can do 80mph to catch you .Breaking the same law as You But You are wrong & he is Ok to break the law .. Its about the system and $$$ .. Now dont get me wrong .I am not anti Gov..( But I am anti -Stupid!!).WE need Gov. But I dont need one that tell me every time I fart its illegal !!

 

[SnapAttack]

(mvanlone @ Sep. 05 2007,11

) I don't think this guy should had been convicted for the crime of murder, manslaughter or anything. The police officer was killed by making the choice of pursuing and knows the dangers of this. Out here in Ohio a man took off from a police officer and swam out in a river and made it to the other side. A officer trying to catch him could not swim good enough and drowned. So now they charge this guy for his death. It is a bunch of BS!!!! It is part of the job that these police officers took this job. The police have to take some responsbility for their own actions. Remember, the chase in I think in Las Vegas and the 2 helicopters collided, they were trying ways to blame that on the guy that they were video taking running from the scene. Bunch of BS....

I don't think this officer should had been convicted for the crime of murder, manslaughter or anything. The suspect was killed by making the choice of running and knows the dangers of this. Out here in Texas a police officer took off after a suspect who swam out in a river and made it to the other side. An officer trying to catch him could not swim so shot him. So now they charge this police officer for his death. It is a bunch of BS!!!! It is part of the risk that low life scum bags take when they break the law. The criminals have to take some responsbility for their own actions.

See where I am going with this...

 

[PocketRocket]

I see where you are going!! And I agree to a degree , BUT POPO has too much authority, There are too many rules, Excessive force & the fact that there are too many laws ( Rules ) on the books .. More laws more crime.. Crime makes $$ , For one side or the other it makes $$.. Gov. Has gotten too big & become big Business.. When this country was found it was for freedom & having little Gov.. ..... Heres a good question.. If someone doesnt do drugs yet supports drug deals in some form or If someone supports the abuse of Children are they not just as guilty as the child abusers?? If the answer is yes then ,If we support communism are we not Communist? We support China , China supports and has always supported those that we have fought in wars But Yet we build their ecconomy!!! So Its not about right or wrong Its about$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ & control.. The power has been taken fromthe people and Bug Business has taken over.. why does a man have to be worth Millions To become President? I'd rather have a used car salesman run the Gov.. POPO and courts have too much authority.. Dress accordingly or go to jail!! Freedom is more han just a word and waving a flag.. It means leave me alone as long as I dont bother you!!! If this rant goes any futher I was wondering if someone could give a dictionary meaning of the word "YOUR" Like "Your" Freedom & a JURY of "YOUR" PEERS!!!!

 

[Projekt]

Considering his background, it is good to finally have that scumbag off the street... For a long time. Unfortunately his actions carry heavy consequences for guys like us.

 

[DREW]

(ks-waterbug @ Jan. 27 2007,07:52) WHAT.... He is guilty of murder! If it were not for his own actions the officer in question would not be dead. HE chose to not obey the law when HE stole the bike. HE chose to break the law by not pulling over and ending the chase. He chose through his reckless actions to endanger the lives of not only the PD but of every Law abiding citizen on the street that day! Hell, I bet He probably has a string of other crimes that he never got caught for and now we say the cop shouldn't have done his job. Are you kidding me? What if this scum had hit another motorist while fleeing? Better yet what if HE killed one of your relatives in his attempt to evade being caught? Would that be a murder  on his part or just an accident? When someone makes the personal decision to NOT obey the law then they should suffer the consequences. In this case the message conveyed to criminals is you can't run to avoid being caught and if you chose to do this YOU will be held responsible for any and all accidents, deaths, mayhem you might cause in the commission of your crime! To me this is no different than a DUI or drunk driver killing someone will operating a vehicle under the influence... I get really tired of the other side making excuses for their stupidity all while trying to pin the blame for their actions on someone or something else!
HANG HIM HIGH I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR THIS INDIVIDUAL...

I knew I liked you KS. You got it right. If you cant do the time ,dont do the crime. If you dont like the law change it. But in this case and many others like it, He is guilty and should hang. No sympathy for criminals.

 

[Rayabusa0818]

The US Supreme court recently ruled in Scott v. Harris that police officers have the right to utilize high speed pursuit. Also, I am sure that our board LEOS will confirm that most, if not all, state laws stipulate that the perp is responsible for any incidents that may occur pursuant to such chase. Like it or not, it is that law of the land that if you run your are responsible for what happens during the chase. There is only one sensible thing to do if the police turn on the blue lights. Otherwise like someone said earilier in this thread...if you are going to do the crime, be prepared to do the time.

 

[Luvanicebum]

If that same cop decided to be a carpenter or something else, he'd still be alive too. We all make decisions. Firefighters make a decision to run into a burning building. Dangerous occupations are neccessity, but also a choice.
Weigh your priorities and make your decisions.

 

[The Big Red One]

(ks-waterbug @ Jan. 27 2007,05:52) WHAT.... He is guilty of murder! If it were not for his own actions the officer in question would not be dead. HE chose to not obey the law when HE stole the bike. HE chose to break the law by not pulling over and ending the chase. He chose through his reckless actions to endanger the lives of not only the PD but of every Law abiding citizen on the street that day! Hell, I bet He probably has a string of other crimes that he never got caught for and now we say the cop shouldn't have done his job. Are you kidding me? What if this scum had hit another motorist while fleeing? Better yet what if HE killed one of your relatives in his attempt to evade being caught? Would that be a murder  on his part or just an accident? When someone makes the personal decision to NOT obey the law then they should suffer the consequences. In this case the message conveyed to criminals is you can't run to avoid being caught and if you chose to do this YOU will be held responsible for any and all accidents, deaths, mayhem you might cause in the commission of your crime! To me this is no different than a DUI or drunk driver killing someone will operating a vehicle under the influence... I get really tired of the other side making excuses for their stupidity all while trying to pin the blame for their actions on someone or something else!
HANG HIM HIGH I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR THIS INDIVIDUAL...

I agree...if you want a bike EARN it don't steal it. If you want to speed find a SAFE place to do it. If you can't control yourself on a bike and you're too lazy to work and earn one, and need to steal it instead, then maybe you're not the kind of person that society needs running free. I def think there needs to be more air support in chases tho and less high speed ground pursuits. I think folks are less likely to run when they know there's a chopper tracking their every move from the air

I do think some examples need to be made so that folks might think twice before comitting the crime or running and endangering innocent people. Do the crime....do the time.

 

[NearDeath]

The officer made a descision to take his cop car to a level he was not comfortable with... Just because he was chasing someone doesn't give him the right to endanger other people's lives by driving outside of the safety of operating his vehicle... I think the real tragedy here is the sentence that was handed down...

They just wanted to burn someone for the death of this officer...

Cloud

 

[The Big Red One]

On second thought I say don't pursue anyone.......let'em all know its pretty much a free for all. If you want to get away, go ahead. Do the crime....but don't worry about doing the time, cause' if you don't want to, you don't have to. I'm sure thats prolly the better way to create a safer society for our friends/familes/loved ones/selves.
But if an officer does pursue them, and they're caught, just slap their hand whether they killed the officer, your family, a vanload of schoolkids, or no one. The officer should be the one that gets the real punishment, considering its his fault. And if he dies...one less cop on the road to protect us eh

And getting tags only works in a small portion of pursuits

This ridiculous mentality of I wanna speed and don't want tickets is understandable to a point. I ride very fast sportbikes myself and like to wick it up once in awhile...but ONLY in selected areas that are safe and cop free. If I ever have an accident I'll be the only one suffering

And I can't remember my last ticket

been wayyy to long

Just because you wanna hot rod whenever you want, wherever you want, don't generalize all cops as bad, and all speeders/runners/criminals as victims because they're on a bike. Biker loyalty only goes so far before it becomes close mindedness, and dangerous to society as a whole. These are the same cops that are protecting your family, you ect

 

[KRUZIN]

Every acyion has a reaction, when are people going to take responsability for their own actions. The speeding bike did not kill the cop, the bike wasn't involved in a wreck.....

 

[loboboy]

(yamahor @ Jan. 26 2007,22:48) While I don't agree with the mans actions (He shouldn't have broken the law in the first place), I don't see it as his fault for the police Officers Death... It was his choice to pursue...

I'm sorry but it was not the officers CHOICE it was his job!! period!!!

We all bash the individuals out there that steal our bikes but then when the thief is confronted we just say that the police should just let them go and get away with their crime.


For the officers family I am truely sorry.
also for the Perps future I pray for him and his family but he made the choice and now he has to live with the consequences.

 

[SnapAttack]

(PocketRocket @ Sep. 06 2007,05:05) I see where you are going!! And I agree to a degree , BUT  POPO has too much authority, There are too many rules, Excessive force & the fact that there are too many laws ( Rules ) on the books .. More laws more crime.. Crime makes $$ , For one side or the other it makes $$..  Gov. Has gotten too big & become big Business.. When this country was found it was for freedom & having little Gov.. .....  Heres a good question.. If someone doesnt do drugs yet supports drug deals  in some form  or If someone supports the abuse of Children  are they not just as guilty as the child abusers??   If the answer is yes then ,If we support communism are we not Communist?  We support China  , China supports and has always supported those that we have fought in wars   But Yet we build their ecconomy!!!  So Its not about right or wrong Its about$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ & control..  The power has been taken fromthe people and Bug Business has taken over.. why does a man have to be worth Millions  To become President? I'd rather have a used car salesman run the Gov..  POPO and courts have too much authority..    Dress accordingly or go to jail!!       Freedom is more han just a word and waving a flag.. It means leave me alone as long as I dont bother you!!!     If this rant goes any futher I was wondering if someone could give a dictionary meaning of the word  "YOUR"   Like "Your" Freedom & a   JURY of "YOUR" PEERS!!!!

It's cool bro... just looking at the other side of the apple.

IMO Freedom is a privilege... not a right. With privilige comes responsibility. The responsibility we have as citizens of the United States is to obey the laws that are set forth. However, with that privilege comes the right to speak up and be heard. Don't like a law... write your Congressperson or City Councilperson. If we get enough people involved IN the system... strength comes in numbers bro.

 

[BusaWizard]

Personally, I know the Officer wanted to catch this scum bag, but I wouldn't have endangered my own life to catch him. Chances are they could have set up a road block, or even got him later. I know we all want them to do something about it right now when our property is stolen, but not at the risk of losing thier life. It's sad that the Officer had to lose his life, caught up in the moment of the chase, reasoning left him. My condolences to his family. Thank you for putting your life on the line, and keeping us safe. My brother is a retired LAPD, 30 yrs.

 

[P-Willy]

(Poppy @ Jan. 27 2007,19:32)

(RCKTMAN @ Jan. 27 2007,19:24)

(Poppy @ Jan. 27 2007,16:13) Oh, I'm glad we have LEO's sworn to uphold the written laws of the land and that we DON'T govern by people's feelings, beliefs, and thoughts.  

DEFINITION OF A LIBERAL

I don't think so! Not me! Next time look it up....

lib·er·al     /ˈlɪbərəl, ˈlɪbrəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.  
2. (often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.  
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.  
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.  
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.  
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.  
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.  
8. open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.  
9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.  
10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.  
11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.  
12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts.  
13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.  
–noun 14. a person of liberal principles or views, esp. in politics or religion.  
15. (often initial capital letter) a member of a liberal party in politics, esp. of the Liberal party in Great Britain.

Man, this definition makes a liberal sound like the opposite of the third reich. So why do so many people try to make liberals sound like the damn devil? Or maybe they get extreme liberals mixed up with regular liberals or slight liberals? Personally I think anybody that caught up with labeling themselves and others are idiots before they even open their mouths. Oh, and if you run from the law and the law crashes and you don't think you'll be charged, you are also an idiot.