The election is over

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said that Trump should retain the Presidency if he loses... I have only stated that he has yet to officially lose, and that even if the voting shenanigans turns up one fraudulent vote, it puts the entire election into question. Yes, one fake vote casts a shadow over every vote and so far there are examples of many fake votes.

I'm concerned as America is our best friend and it's hard to sit idly by and watch a friend and ally bleed out internally.

You say that "It's not about beliefs/opinions. It's about election results." and you're 100% correct, the problem is that there are no official results yet. Biden is not President-Elect despite what the mainstream media and his party state, nor should anyone be labeled this until the election is actually over.

Hilary Clinton said "Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances because I think this is going to drag out." (Hillary Clinton to Biden: Don't concede if the election is close) and she's right. But this also goes for President Trump because it's not over until it's over... and it's just not over yet.
This is basically BS. There are no examples of a candidate not conceding the election once it is clear nothing's wrong with the vote (even Hilary conceded to Trump without dragging things out). Trump is not conceding because he is collecting money for the legal fight. Note that not a single case has even gotten the courts to consider it. Trump is running up the donations because he can basically spend this money on anything, so it's essentially going in his pocket.

Your Hilary quote is a bit out of context. She was basically saying Trump is cheating when they discovered his goons had gummed up the USPS. We (Dems) went to the courts to fix this but also most of us use hand delivered our ballots.

People think this was a nail biter of an election but it wasn't. Biden has won more electorial college votes than Trump did in 2016, more actual votes and Biden is above 50% of the voters (Trump is one of the few Presidents to not get above 50% ever in his entire term). Trump actually lost the actual vote by 3 million, Biden won it by 5 million.

People think this was close because the legal votes cast by mail prior to 11/3 were not counted early. This made it seem like Trump broke into an early lead and Biden caught up with a bunch of weird votes. Had the votes been counted early, Trump would have never been close to Biden and we would have known that night that Trump had been thumped. Note that the GOP is mostly responsible for this, as they passed laws not allowing the legal early vote to be counted prior to 11/3. In another bit of irony, Trump discouraged mail in voting to the Republicans and this may well have made a significant difference.

There is also the BS about votes being cast after 11/3 being counted. This is simply not true and is mainly a poor choice of words by the media. If you got your ballot to the post office and it was post marked on or before 11/3 it is a legal ballot. If it takes the USPS 3-4 days to get it to the election board for counting this is not the voter's fault. This is as it has been done for as long as I can remember. There are some votes that are accepted late, like armed forces voters who are deployed.

Never ceases to amaze me how far into stupid people will go to support this thug. I think a lot of people think of Trump as the outlaw that out-smarts them every time. There was no cheating here, he got a good old fashion arse whopping from mild-mannered Joe, lol! And now we (Dems) are chanting "lock him up"!
 
Never ceases to amaze me how far into stupid people will go to support this thug. I think a lot of people think of Trump as the outlaw that out-smarts them every time. There was no cheating here, he got a good old fashion arse whopping from mild-mannered Joe, lol! And now we (Dems) are chanting "lock him up"!

I have no doubt there is a long laundry list of people just waiting for Trump to leave office so they can get their lawsuits going....
 
— During a Pennsylvania court hearing this week on one of the many election lawsuits brought by President Donald Trump, a judge asked a campaign lawyer whether he had found any signs of fraud from among the 592 ballots challenged.

The answer was no.

“Accusing people of fraud is a pretty big step,” said the lawyer, Jonathan Goldstein. “We’re all just trying to get an election done.”

Trump has not been so cautious, insisting without evidence that the election was stolen from him even when election officials nationwide from both parties say there has been no conspiracy.

On Wednesday, Trump took aim at Philadelphia, the Democratic stronghold that helped push President-elect Joe Biden over the 270 Electoral College votes needed to win the race. The president accused a local Republican election official, Al Schmidt, of ignoring "a mountain of corruption & dishonesty.” Twitter added a label that said the election fraud claim is disputed.

Trump loyalists have filed at least 15 legal challenges in Pennsylvania alone in an effort to reclaim the state’s 20 electoral votes. There is action, too, in Georgia, Arizona, Nevada and Michigan.

In court, his lawyers must walk a precarious line between advocating for their client and upholding their professional oath.

Legal ethicists and pro-democracy activists have questioned the participation of lawyers in this quest, as Trump clings to power and President-elect Joe Biden rolls out his agenda.

“This may be an attempt to appease the ego in chief, but there are real world consequences for real people that come out of that,” said Loyola Law School professor Justin Levitt, a former Justice Department elections official. “The attempt to soothe the president’s ego is not a victimless crime.”

Schmidt told CBS' “60 Minutes” that his office has received death threats simply for counting votes.

“From the inside looking out, it feels all very deranged,” Schmidt said in an interview that aired Sunday. “Counting votes cast on or before Election Day by eligible voters is not corruption. It is not cheating. It is democracy.”

Untold voters, however, are accepting Trump’s claim about a rigged election and are donating to his legal fund.

A law firm involved in the election suits, Ohio-based Porter Wright Morris & Arthur, appeared to take down its Twitter feed Tuesday after it was inundated with attacks. The firm declined to address questions from The Associated Press about the feed in a statement issued Wednesday that said it had a long history of election work.

A second firm, Jones Day, said it was representing not the Trump campaign but the Pennsylvania GOP, in litigation before the U.S. Supreme Court over the three-day extension to accept mail-in ballots.

Nationally, the strategy is being run by Trump allies such as Rudy Giuliani, the president’s personal attorney; political operative David Bossie, who is not an attorney; and Jay Sekulow, a lead lawyer during the president’s impeachment trial this year. Bossie recently tested positive for COVID-19.

Election law expert Rick Hasen said he would expect to see top-drawer Supreme Court litigators involved, such as two former solicitors general, Paul Clement or Theodore Olson, if Trump had a strong case.

“There are certain names of elite lawyers that signal to the Supreme Court that something is serious,” said Hasen, a professor at the University of California, Irvine. Instead, “the campaign announced that it was putting Rudy Giuliani and David Bossie in charge.”

The low point of the effort undoubtedly came Saturday, when Giuliani held a news conference outside Four Seasons Total Landscaping in Philadelphia just after the race was called for Biden. Standing in the shadow of a sex shop and a crematorium, just down the road from a state prison, Giuliani called a disgruntled poll watcher to the microphone to discuss the “shenanigans” in the city. Political observers tuning in from nearby Trenton, New Jersey, immediately recognized the man as a convicted sex offender and perennial candidate for office.

In another head-scratching moment, as the campaign tried to stop the vote count in Philadelphia last week, a judge tried to get to the bottom of a Republican complaint over observer access in the room where election workers were processing mail-in ballots.

“I am asking you as a member of the bar of this court, are people representing the Donald J. Trump for president (campaign) … in that room?” U.S. District Judge Paul S. Diamond asked.

“There’s a nonzero number of people in the room,” campaign lawyer Jerome Marcus replied.

Diamond made the two sides forge an agreement and threatened to charge them with contempt if they didn’t keep the peace.

Some of the suits filed on Trump's behalf appear to be hastily thrown together, with spelling errors (“ballet” for “ballot”), procedural mistakes and little to back up their claims. Judges have been skeptical.

In Michigan, Judge Cynthia Stephens dismissed one filing as “inadmissible hearsay within hearsay.” When Trump’s lawyers appealed, the next court kicked the filing back as “defective.”

The campaign has scored just one small victory, allowing their observers to stand a little closer to election workers processing the mail-in ballots in Philadelphia. But the litigation keeps coming, usually centered on accusations from partisan poll watchers, who have no auditing role in the election, that something untoward may have happened, without evidence to back it up.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., insists the president is “100% within his rights" to look into fraud allegations and pursue his legal options. Attorney General William Barr has authorized the Justice Department to investigate “clear and apparently-credible allegations of irregularities.”

Either way, experts doubt the suits can reverse the outcome in a single state, let alone the election. Trump aides and allies have privately admitted as much, suggesting the challenges are designed more to stoke his base.
 
The president can only pardon people for federal crimes. This does not cover state crimes, which is why Muller referred much of the stuff he was reviewing the the State of NY, so Trump could not just pardon his way out of them.

What Nixon did was much different than Trump. What Nixon did was for power, and he was not the direct actor in the criminal acts. Trump was looking for personal gain and was directly the actor in several of the actual crimes. He is considered an un-indicted co-conspirator. Ford destroyed his career to pardon Nixon. Pence is on vacation and no way will he ruin his career for Trump unless there is a massive payoff in it.

OK. Until we meet again, peace. I'm out.
 
The president can only pardon people for federal crimes. This does not cover state crimes, which is why Muller referred much of the stuff he was reviewing the the State of NY, so Trump could not just pardon his way out of them.

What Nixon did was much different than Trump. What Nixon did was for power, and he was not the direct actor in the criminal acts. Trump was looking for personal gain and was directly the actor in several of the actual crimes. He is considered an un-indicted co-conspirator. Ford destroyed his career to pardon Nixon. Pence is on vacation and no way will he ruin his career for Trump unless there is a massive payoff in it.

OK. Until we meet again, peace. I'm out.
It’s all over except for those of us who still like to be amidst all the noise.

With the new changes coming, Arch is going to become a Green Building Architecture expert.

And me, all you see on my website www.sandhillscustom.com was made in America. I am going to start importing all that sh!t from China and make a whole bunch more money.
 
A buddy of mine said there is a big difference between being a republican and being a Trump supporter...you can be one without being the other.

He told me the republican party is like our conservative party here and the democrats are like our liberal party..

By that definition I lean more towards the republican party as I don't care for our liberal party politics...That being said, I'm not a fan of Trump.
 
A buddy of mine said there is a big difference between being a republican and being a Trump supporter...you can be one without being the other.

He told me the republican party is like our conservative party here and the democrats are like our liberal party..

By that definition I lean more towards the republican party as I don't care for our liberal party politics...That being said, I'm not a fan of Trump.
I've always thought a balance is important. I voted for and supported Clinton, Bush, and Obama. I call it the pendulum theory. I think your buddy is spot on. The country was due a conservative period and instead we got 4 years of a weird caricature of evil emperor and spoiled 8 year old.
 
Looks pretty obvious from here.... but I’m no expert like some of you guys :)
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I've always thought a balance is important. I voted for and supported Clinton, Bush, and Obama. I call it the pendulum theory. I think your buddy is spot on. The country was due a conservative period and instead we got 4 years of a weird caricature of evil emperor and spoiled 8 year old.
We get that same pendulum here...when the liberals are in power they almost bankrupt the country by handing out tax payer money to every organization request out there and let our infrastructure and government based entities fall apart including our military.

By the time our conservative party gets back in power, things are so far gone it takes their entire term and then some to get things working again...

You guys had the right party in power, just the wrong leader who, for some reason was popular and not just amongst the whites but all races...
 
We get that same pendulum here...when the liberals are in power they almost bankrupt the country by handing out tax payer money to every organization request out there and let our infrastructure and government based entities fall apart including our military.

By the time our conservative party gets back in power, things are so far gone it takes their entire term and then some to get things working again...

You guys had the right party in power, just the wrong leader who, for some reason was popular and not just amongst the whites but all races...
I think that the key to Trump's popularity is that he's anything but a polished career politician, and people are getting sick and tired of those.
 
I think that the key to Trump's popularity is that he's anything but a polished career politician, and people are getting sick and tired of those.
Maybe....I can see the allure of such a person...just not this particular person...
 
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Maybe....I can see the allure of such a person...just not this particular person...

Taste is a personal thing. I'm sure we've all had friends who we quite liked, but other people found crazy and abrasive (looking at you, Rubb)... Trump resonates with a lot of people who find Biden very distasteful, and the opposite is also just as true.

Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder, etc.
 
Taste is a personal thing. I'm sure we've all had friends who we quite liked, but other people found crazy and abrasive (looking at you, Rubb)... Trump resonates with a lot of people who find Biden very distasteful, and the opposite is also just as true.

Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder, etc.
When he was elected he was the lesser of two evils now Biden is the lesser of two evils I guess....it was Trump's almost fascist dictator like demeanor that made so many people get out and vote so they could get him out of office...

It just so happened 'ol Joe was there to benefit from the anti-Trumpets....

Out of 340 million people, there just has to be someone decent around to lead that country instead of what they get.
 
Der herr Trump is planning on attending a mass rally of his disgruntled supporters...in a normal world, he would tell them to calm down and support their new president...we all know this isn't a normal world and he will most likely rile them up more..

If there isn't a riot or fire-fight as a result of this rally, I'll be shocked.
 
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