The starting problems start!

[Viperam]

Yeah I did rest the reg. I know its a long thread, but to sum it up. We tested and replaced everything. We knew it was a mechanical binding.
Everyone said starter clutch but after replacing that it was same problem. Wound up being the idler gear between the replaced starter and the replaced clutch.
Don't know how the hell that went bad but it did.
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[Viperam]

Oh **** lee... That reminds me. We did test the regulator. I do electronics for the military. Can't say much more than that but rest assured I know how to test a diode!

I had more than 2/3 of the test points fail (can't remember the numbers or what the readings were). But my regulator tested horrible! Brought it to the aircraft avionics shop to have the geeks look at it. They said my test was perfectly done and it still failed as the suzuki manual indicates. Brought to dealer. They said they don't test them and don't know how or have tool. I gave the multimeter to him and read the instructions to him. Taught him how to do it. He said it fails the test but he would swap it out to be sure.

A friend gave me his known good and it tested identical, fail. And did the same thing on my bike. But we put both mine and his on his bike and it was perfect.

So I would borrow someones to swap, or buy a cheap used. If you want, pm me. Ill five you my phone number and we can test the regs on the phone and compare readings.

Great manual but that section let me down miserably.
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[LeeFL2]

Wow! Good to know.
The only thing I can say is that the reg was charging a little high sometimes at 15 volts.
I just ordered a new one for $150.00. Will take my voltmeter to the dealer and test the new one. If it's the same, I will pay the restock and leave it there.WTF!!!
So you say idler gear? Is that behind the clutch?

 

[LeeFL2]

My Phone number is 561-670-9660. Im in Palm Beach Co , Florida.

 

[LeeFL2]

OK, Just got done tearing my bi#ch apart. Idler gear, starter clutch.

Seems that all is good in there.

Idler gear is different from what the manual depicts. Wish they would update their gd manuals.

Starter clutch is clean and rotates in one direction only as it should. What I did note is that in the manual, you have to index the starter clutch to the mark on the crankshaft. Mine has a keyed crankshaft gear and it only goes on one way. Once again, manual needs a slight update to reflect that mod.

Pics up soon.

Job was easy.

 

[LeeFL2]

Wow! Good to know.
The only thing I can say is that the reg was charging a little high sometimes at 15 volts.
I just ordered a new one for $150.00. Will take my voltmeter to the dealer and test the new one. If it's the same, I will pay the restock and leave it there.WTF!!!
So you say idler gear? Is that behind the clutch?

Got it. Idler gear is in between starter and starter clutch.

 

[LeeFL2]

For the sake of discussion and clarity, I will separate my problem into another thread since they might not be related.

Jeffrey, it was nice talking to you today. Thanks for your insight!!

 

[Viperam]

The shop that was working on my bike told me it was a starter clutch. I had someone in the org give me a starter clutch and i paid the shop $115 to put it in. It didnt fix it.

I told him i already eliminated the electrical system by telling him everything ive already posted in this thread.

He researched and thought it was the starter clutch cover. Specificly the pin that the idler pulley was loose in the cover. Made him think it was binding. He bought it and put it on.

Called me the day later and said its fixed. I asked him what he did, he told me he did just that, and put a new battery and new starter on it. I got pissed because ive already put a new battery and new starter in it. So i told him to take it off.

I went to pick up my bike from the shop. He said he didnt charge me labor to put the original parts back on but warned me it was not fixed now. So, im wondering why we did that pin if its still not fixed.

He talked me into buying his Yuasa battery and a new suzuki starter. Parts labor $768

When i got home i put the new starter on in place of my new starter. And of course it didnt fix it. IT sounded ****KING identical! i call him and he "assured" me once i put the battery in it would be perfect. So im pissed wondering if it was just the battery the whole time. But i have to wait 24 hours for the absorbed glass mat to soak up the acid before i can install it.

Im sure it wont fix it. And dont know what to do about getting my money back, or getting my bike fixed.

Im afraid the only thing i can do to fix this ***** is to put a 24v starting on it.

 

[Viperam]

I already have two stock batteries and 2 starters, but im trying to find out if i can use the extra stock battery for a 24v starting system. Is there anyway i can mount the second battery with the stock undertail?
My other thread

https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/electrical-mods/126452-mounting-yt12a-battery-24v-system.html

 

[LeeFL2]

I think you would mount it under the tank on some kind of bracket. A smaller battery would be better. How would it get charged? Isolator?

 

[LeeFL2]

Damn dude, I feel for ya. Fokin stupid dealers...

 

[turbor1]

anybody find an answer to this problem? i have spoken to viperam on the phone today, as i have the exact same problem, my bike is also a 03, done all the same tests as him, been thru 3 starters, last one is brand new genuine suzuki. i have also put power directly to the starter with a big car battery and jumper cables straight on the starter....same problem.. I have now taken the whole motor apart as i tought it might be a spun bearing or something...nothing everything is brand spanking new...

 

[Vaggabon1]

This is ludacris. I have an 03, 22k miles and the same problem. It cant be the battery or charging system because, as some of you said, i got the bike nice and hot and waited for it to act up again and then I put power direct to the starter and...same problem.

I was thinking that the bearings in the starter were ceasing up as it got hot so, i took the starter and starter clutch out, push started the bike and waited for it to get hot. Put the cool starter and clutch in the hot bike and...same problem.

So.... come on please HELP. Can it be something in the motor? ..but if so, then it would not push start, right?!?!?! THOUGHT!?

 

[turbor1]

what starter clutch did you take out, the top one or the bottom one in your test? im thinking its the top one thats acting up, i took the top one assembly apart and and the splines on the shaft are a little damaged... im going to replace the top starter clutch (limiter assy as per suzuki) i cant test now as i have taken my whole motor apart thinking something was wrong in it, nothing at all evrything is like new. wont be able to test before 3 weeks, hope someone finds an answer before then!!! i cant belive nobody on this or other sites as seen this before and found an answer!!!

from what im reading this problem only seems to occur on 03 and up bikes, the older ones didnt have the limiter assy, so im hoping its the culprit!

 

[Viperam]

sorry to tell you turbor1, the starter clutch (limiter assembly) wouldnt and isnt causing this problem. At least on my bike. And after talking to you on the phone, we have the same issue.

What is startling is you are the 17 SEVENTEENTH person to call me since december to ask me what was causing it, and since december i have emailed, called, or instant messaged 116 of 124 people on my list that i made from 6 different hayabusa sites all with hot starting problems identical as mine, and none have an answer.

 

[turbor1]

well i can tell you one thing on the limiter clutch, i took it apart 2days before taking my engine out of the frame and apart. i took it apart to see how its made and see if the problem could be there. the splines on the shaft where a little damaged but i didnt think it could cause the issue... im still wondering tho. when i took it apart, i damaged the little circlip a little, so when i put it back together, i put the damaged circlip until id get a new one. went for a ride. next morning i tried to cold start the busa, it would not turn over, exactly the same as its doing on a hot start. i took the limiter assy out of the motor to look at it, the damaged circlip had come half out so the gears on the limiter where a little crooked on the shaft. i just replaced the circlip, put the assy back in the motor and it fired right up. So i know that if these gears are a little crooked, it will do the problem, im really wondering if theres too mutch clearance between my gears and the shaft of the limiter assy and when the starter applys torque while turning, the gears in the limiter assy are binding..... when i put back my motor together i will try another limiter assy to see. Im convinced the problem lies in the whole starter gear mecanism... by reading and reaserching ALOT on the furums, all the guys that have our exact problem are mostly 03's but all of them are 03's and up. 99-02 dont seem to have that problem, and they dont have the damm limiter assy....

viperam, if i recall you had the starter clutch or limiter assy replaced by the dealer.... an they later refunded you the parts, do you have proof they really had replaced it?

since i took the motor apart im going 1397 with an 08 crank.... no way i took the whole freaking motor apart for nothing lol, thats why i cant do more testing on the problem until im back together, should be 2-3 weeks

 

[Viperam]

I rode the bike home with the new cover new gears, pins, and bushing, and a new starter clutch and it did same thing when I got home. Took them off myself, brought them back and exchanged for my parts and reassembled it myself. And there was no changed before and after.
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[Vaggabon1]

The part i took out for my hot motor, cold starter test was the starter motor and starter idler gear/ limiter assembly.

I finally opened the starter clutch cover and the starter clutch set looks discolored as if it was overheating. The starter bearing looks fine and rotates and the bearing in the starter clutch set looks good and is rotating but the discoloration is disturbing. I will get a new one tomorrow to test. I cant think of what it could be outside of the starter, idlers gear and starter clutch.

Will update tomorrow.

 

[turbor1]

I rode the bike home with the new cover new gears, pins, and bushing, and a new starter clutch and it did same thing when I got home. Took them off myself, brought them back and exchanged for my parts and reassembled it myself. And there was no changed before and after.
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argg not what i wanted to read... cant wait till you bring your bike to your last resort mechanic to see if he can help you!

 

[turbor1]

The part i took out for my hot motor, cold starter test was the starter motor and starter idler gear/ limiter assembly.

I finally opened the starter clutch cover and the starter clutch set looks discolored as if it was overheating. The starter bearing looks fine and rotates and the bearing in the starter clutch set looks good and is rotating but the discoloration is disturbing. I will get a new one tomorrow to test. I cant think of what it could be outside of the starter, idlers gear and starter clutch.

Will update tomorrow.

PLEASE let us know tomorrow!!! together we will find and fix the problem! Viperam when we talked mentionned that he tought it might be an injector locking up open when we shut off the motor and hydrolocking the motor, in my case i tried turning the motor over by removing the 10mm allen acces bolt in the cover when the motor was hot and wouln not start and it turned as easely as it does when cold, so i dont think thats the problem. Im still convinced the problem has got to lie in the starter cover/gears/clutches mecanism

This is really annoying as my busa powerplant is in a t-rex worth 50k (Campagna- Fun, Style, Performance) and having to bump start it is not an option.