RedBull
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Today's Action with Police Involvement at a school
- Thread starter c10
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Johnnie Phatt
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E Gad. It's like visiting New Brunswick. In English or French I don't understand a word they say.
‘I hurt a guys feelings once’
Mathewrussell52
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1.2 and 3....
So let's extend this line of thinking a bit. If we should step in here because we are civilized then where does that stop? Should we step in when a business is metaphorically beating up employees? Or help a caravan of people running from murderers and killers too?
Mr Brown
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No, because a person has a choice about where they work, and whether or not they are represented by a collective bargaining unit.
And your second question's answer depends on how much responsibility we have in keeping the people they're running from in charge.
BTW, murderers are killers by default...
Mathewrussell52
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Yes open a business and hire these abused employees. Go to Mexico and provide aide.
No, because a person has a choice about where they work, and whether or not they are represented by a collective bargaining unit.
And your second question's answer depends on how much responsibility we have in keeping the people they're running from in charge.
BTW, murderers are killers by default...
I meant murderers and rapist Mr. Brown. The question was if we see someone in a situation who is helpless should we help them? If we don't can we call ourselves civilized? If you see a fight you won't have time for all this rationalization. You have to make a decision based on what you see.
Mathewrussell52
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A lot of jobs do not give you a choice if your part of a collective bargaining unit.No, because a person has a choice about where they work, and whether or not they are represented by a collective bargaining unit.
And your second question's answer depends on how much responsibility we have in keeping the people they're running from in charge.
BTW, murderers are killers by default...
Mr Brown
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I think the answer rests on how one defines helpless. I don't think someone who has a sh!tty job is helpless. I don't think someone who wants to leave their country for a better life is helpless. We can offer them some assistance in both situations, but simply rescuing them isn't the answer.
Mr Brown
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Then perhaps people who would benefit from them shouldn't elect representatives who legislate against them...
Mathewrussell52
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Know a couple of people that are part of a Union because they have no choice. Luckily in Iowa you are not forced to pay union dues.
We’re talking this thread in total different direction love it. Your a very intelligent man and love hearing your perspective. Could debate unions all day and I believe they served their purpose years ago. But the reality just like the big evil business they are pretending to protect people from. They are a business and a much larger business. All business for profit, nonprofit, and unions are only about making $$.
Mr Brown
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So I'll start with a disclosure, I was a union member for years, served as shop steward for several of those years. Have personally been involved with contract negotiations.
From my perspective, you're right about a lot. Unions have gotten away from the reasons they were created, have taken on a life of their own. Im not in favor of people being required to join them. However, I also object to government trying to legislate them out of existence, politicians are far more loyal to private interests than the people they're supposed to serve. If unions don't work for employees, they should be allowed to wither away. If employers don't want an organized workforce, they should not treat their employees like dirt.
From my perspective, you're right about a lot. Unions have gotten away from the reasons they were created, have taken on a life of their own. Im not in favor of people being required to join them. However, I also object to government trying to legislate them out of existence, politicians are far more loyal to private interests than the people they're supposed to serve. If unions don't work for employees, they should be allowed to wither away. If employers don't want an organized workforce, they should not treat their employees like dirt.
Mr Brown
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Thank you, I love a good solid discussion. I think honest, open minded debate and discussion is the key to a society. We don't all have to agree, but we need to have mutual respect.
1busa
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Been in a union for the better part of a decade. Have friends and co-workers in union positions. Been asked a few times to run and vehemently refuse each time. Can’t speak for em all but the 1 I’ve been apart of and others I know of are nothing more than a crock of sh@t
They take $$$ out of each of your paycheck and use it for trips to Vegas, Atlantic City, D.C. etc.... They claim it’s for “classes & training” but it’s a joke!!! Guys just sign in and then walk back out and continue the weekend binger. All a union does is protect the incompetent and trouble makers. Over 150+ guys and it’s the same 10 who are constantly filing grievances and getting in trouble. It basically ties the company’s hands and doesn’t allow them to pay you based on your knowledge and effort. Show up and do your job well and take pride in your work will get you absolutely nowhere. You have to get paid the same as the guy who can’t do his job, shows up late and or calls off all the time.
I’ve never called off work in over 10 years..... I show up and do my job no ands ifs or butts. Don’t want a pat on the back but if I was to be rewarded for my efforts in any kind of way by management my so called “union brothers” would stand in line to file a grievance stating they want what I got even though they didn’t earn it.
Been in a union for the better part of a decade. Have friends and co-workers in union positions. Been asked a few times to run and vehemently refuse each time. Can’t speak for em all but the 1 I’ve been apart of and others I know of are nothing more than a crock of sh@t
They take $$$ out of each of your paycheck and use it for trips to Vegas, Atlantic City, D.C. etc.... They claim it’s for “classes & training” but it’s a joke!!! Guys just sign in and then walk back out and continue the weekend binger. All a union does is protect the incompetent and trouble makers. Over 150+ guys and it’s the same 10 who are constantly filing grievances and getting in trouble. It basically ties the company’s hands and doesn’t allow them to pay you based on your knowledge and effort. Show up and do your job well and take pride in your work will get you absolutely nowhere. You have to get paid the same as the guy who can’t do his job, shows up late and or calls off all the time.
I’ve never called off work in over 10 years..... I show up and do my job no ands ifs or butts. Don’t want a pat on the back but if I was to be rewarded for my efforts in any kind of way by management my so called “union brothers” would stand in line to file a grievance stating they want what I got even though they didn’t earn it.
In re: “All a union does is protect the incompetent and trouble makers.”
While I may agree with some of your points, this statement is not true. That’s not all a union does.
While I may agree with some of your points, this statement is not true. That’s not all a union does.
I agree with you 100%. Unions also protect the innocent people who have been put upon by management or peers. In many cases the union is not as strong as it needs to be. Often times the union will buckle to management.
Mr Brown
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A union is only as strong as it's weakest member. If that weak link is in leadership, the union is in trouble. I live in coal mine country, and it amazes me how many of the younger members of the work force are anti-union. They've become detached from the reasons unions were formed, and are willing to stab each other in the back to gain small advantages at work. In the coal industry particularly, management could not care less about the employees. At the end of the day, you're a commodity, to be used and discarded like any other. It's a dangerous job, and the industry has a very powerful political reach to protect itself from liability.
I guess I can say this today without getting into trouble, as I am retired. A lot of experience here dealing with unions as a corporate officer. My initial experience was in a country where revolutionary movements influenced trade unions to destabilize industry with the only objective being their revolution goals. They were not interested in the worker, it was purely politically motivated. Coming to the USA with that background made dealing with unions here a walk in the park.
That said, I believe in capitalism, survival of the fittest and the need principle. If there were no unions, the economy would have been a lot stronger and a whole lot of industry would never have left the US to set up operations in Asia. The way I have always been programmed in the corporate environment is to add value to the extent where it justifies the organization needing me. I have never expected a company to look after me, rather the other way around.
" If employers don't want an organized workforce, they should not treat their employees like dirt."
In my experience how an employer treats an individual is directly proportional to the value the individual adds. When they really need you, they really take care of you. If not, probably been in the job too long, time to go somewhere else where you can add value.
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