Try it before you buy it?

Bumblebee said:
@sixpack577 it's almost as though Suzuki built the engine for a factory turbo but then decided to not go that route....based on the upgrades to the gen 2 motor they did, it's almost in line with what a turbo builder would do...or am I out to lunch on that too?

Suzuki then set it up for mid range power....where most people live...
Click to expand...

You could be right.
Consider the Bking was to be factory supercharged, then that was scrapped last minute, and it ended up not even having ram-air...which most of us think was a direct result of that.
Suzuki could've scrapped bigger gen3 plans thanks to covid too, and maybe the final price would not have been realistic.
 
I think the Germans are still using the VW diesel emissions standards to pass their BMW bikes, lol, as their bikes seem to gain the typical 10-15whp with a pipe and tune.
Vs the late model Japanese bikes that are gaining around 3 times that, as they are more choked up and have more already in them to start with.
 
Wow... you guys are great! Thank you for all your responses.

HayaWakened, thank you! Sent PM.

I still believe that dealers should rethink their strategy. I bet they would sell more bikes, or maybe they don't need to. BMW's success is partly due to this. I remember they encouraged me to test drive both bikes (S1K and GS) extensively. All I had to do was to show my DL and proof of insurance.

What were you guys riding before buying the Busa for the first time?
 
Sorry I read the question wrong. I thought you asked what were we riding before we bought this Busa.
 
Ricko101 said:
Wow... you guys are great! Thank you for all your responses.

HayaWakened, thank you! Sent PM.

I still believe that dealers should rethink their strategy. I bet they would sell more bikes, or maybe they don't need to. BMW's success is partly due to this. I remember they encouraged me to test drive both bikes (S1K and GS) extensively. All I had to do was to show my DL and proof of insurance.

What were you guys riding before buying the Busa for the first time?
Click to expand...
By majority, BMW riders aren't the same as Japanese bike riders.
The Japanese bikes have a much higher Squid to Real Rider ratio, lol.
In most cases, to ride a new Japanese bike, you need to go to a 'Demo Day', where Suzuki, Kawasaki, whoever, has a tractor trailer travel the country with a schedule, and 5 or 6 models to try out.
Otherwise it's hit and miss, as most dealers don't have demo's, and if they do, they are usually new models of cheap and small cc bikes.
 
sixpack577 said:
You could be right.
Consider the Bking was to be factory supercharged, then that was scrapped last minute, and it ended up not even having ram-air...which most of us think was a direct result of that.
Suzuki could've scrapped bigger gen3 plans thanks to covid too, and maybe the final price would not have been realistic.
Click to expand...
The final price on the Gen 3 in Australia is not realistic at all, $12k more over a Gen 2 with minor modifications that made me keep my half average blue K8.
 
Dai. said:
The final price on the Gen 3 in Australia is not realistic at all, $12k more over a Gen 2 with minor modifications that made me keep my half average blue K8.
Click to expand...
Wow, that is ridiculous
Cheapest new gen3 I've seen advertised is at a dealer an hour away.
$16,599 obo (obo on a new bike is a red flag that they can't sell it)
but I don't know if or what hidden fees they may want to attach.
All the other gen3's I've seen on dealer sites are retail, $18,599 + more fees.
With tax, tag, and title, it's an easy $21k otd at most dealers.
 
Dai. said:
The final price on the Gen 3 in Australia is not realistic at all, $12k more over a Gen 2 with minor modifications that made me keep my half average blue K8.
Click to expand...
It’s ridiculous. I keep looking and the price isn’t moving. Same as @Dai, I’ll be keeping my gen2.
Was keen to look at the new GT, but even that is just a couple of thou below a new Gen3.
Sorry Suzuki, but if I have a lazy $30k floating around, I have so many more options.
 
Ricko101 said:
Wow... you guys are great! Thank you for all your responses.

HayaWakened, thank you! Sent PM.

I still believe that dealers should rethink their strategy. I bet they would sell more bikes, or maybe they don't need to. BMW's success is partly due to this. I remember they encouraged me to test drive both bikes (S1K and GS) extensively. All I had to do was to show my DL and proof of insurance.

What were you guys riding before buying the Busa for the first time?
Click to expand...
You're welcome
PM answered
I went from a Ninja 500 > Yam FJ6R > Yam FZ1 > Gen2 in about 6 yrs
I had bikes as a kid (who didn't?), laid off bikes while the kids were kids. Now I have g-kids
 
If you can’t find someone local to let you go for a ride, your other option is Suzuki Demo Days. You’ll have to wait for the 2022 calendar to post but as others have said they travel the country with new bikes to test ride. It’s usually at the bike bike shows.
 
sixpack577 said:
I think the Germans are still using the VW diesel emissions standards to pass their BMW bikes, lol, as their bikes seem to gain the typical 10-15whp with a pipe and tune.
Vs the late model Japanese bikes that are gaining around 3 times that, as they are more choked up and have more already in them to start with.
Click to expand...
Well, it would be nice if the bikes were measured according to these values. : D But the German is dead serious here. Here, a motorbike under Euro 4 is already being insulted by politicians as environmental pigs. They would be happy to be able to take them out of circulation. The new Euro5 norm is really torture for most manufacturers, who would like to ask "naaa ??? Should the air come out even cleaner than it is sucked in?"

The manufacturers are constantly annoyed and forced to only sell special bikes. BUT I agree with you about BMW, they are completely blind here. Blind authorities and blind buyers! BMW sometimes produces extremely unreliable bikes and is still the king of sales! Why? Marketing propaganda and totally naive customers. My dealer always says "I can't tell you why, but a customer comes into the shop and his engine broke after 30,000 kilometers, but instead of complaining and ranting, he just asks what a new BMW costs! There are no such naive, stubborn and unteachable customers. No matter how often the boxes break or are not allowed to drive for months because there are recalls but there are no parts, they don't care. Buying bikes at exorbitant prices and still feeling like they are the Kings. The Japanese, on the other hand, are reliable, affordable and fair. But the Germans are not interested in that, they want to show off, only the status pulls. A BMW GS including a steel case and complete off-road equipment is driven to the ice cream parlor ... man might think the guy was in the Gobi desert. The files for the recall campaigns and defects on S1000RR and S1000R are currently as thick as my forearm is long. They buy KTM, BMW and Triumph, so the Bike that are the most expensive and break the most. Image is everything. Ego monkeys! No wonder that Suzuki is already saying goodbye to Germany with a market share of 2.8% of total sales.
 
After three R1200GSs and three S1000XRs I couldn't stand their unreliability, although they were very satisfying when they did't break down. The R1200GS had no rear brake and stalled frequently at traffic stops, one XR had a bad cam incident (3 weeks in the shop and 2.500,00 Euros paid by warranty), the other XR (2020 model) had 3 times a dead ignition coil in three different cylinders, a quickshifter malfunction twice and a passenger footpeg lost somewhere in the mountains I ride. All were covered by warranty but the downtime was a dealbraker for me. The last XR was in the shop for 3 of the 6 months of ownership. Also parts had to come from Germany which took 15-20 days. Note that I live in Europe so it takes 2-3 days from a package from Germany to Greece. The European motorcycle manufacturers leave development to customers and issue a million recalls after a lot of problems that surface when riding in the real world.
I test rode a S1000RR and I have only good things to say, mind the reliability gamble.
The Busa is way more potent in low and middle rpm which makes it faster in real world riding but not in the track. The issue with the Busa is the weight when riding in tight roads. It is almost solved with a lighter exhaust.
For the past 6 months I ride a Busa Gen3 with full Akra (-14 kg and +12,5HP without ECU flash yet) and it is more satisfying than all the BM's I 've had. 12000 km on the odo and zero problems. Also maintenance is almost half the cost of a BMW.
 
Rubberrabbit said:
Well, it would be nice if the bikes were measured according to these values. : D But the German is dead serious here. Here, a motorbike under Euro 4 is already being insulted by politicians as environmental pigs. They would be happy to be able to take them out of circulation. The new Euro5 norm is really torture for most manufacturers, who would like to ask "naaa ??? Should the air come out even cleaner than it is sucked in?"

The manufacturers are constantly annoyed and forced to only sell special bikes. BUT I agree with you about BMW, they are completely blind here. Blind authorities and blind buyers! BMW sometimes produces extremely unreliable bikes and is still the king of sales! Why? Marketing propaganda and totally naive customers. My dealer always says "I can't tell you why, but a customer comes into the shop and his engine broke after 30,000 kilometers, but instead of complaining and ranting, he just asks what a new BMW costs! There are no such naive, stubborn and unteachable customers. No matter how often the boxes break or are not allowed to drive for months because there are recalls but there are no parts, they don't care. Buying bikes at exorbitant prices and still feeling like they are the Kings. The Japanese, on the other hand, are reliable, affordable and fair. But the Germans are not interested in that, they want to show off, only the status pulls. A BMW GS including a steel case and complete off-road equipment is driven to the ice cream parlor ... man might think the guy was in the Gobi desert. The files for the recall campaigns and defects on S1000RR and S1000R are currently as thick as my forearm is long. They buy KTM, BMW and Triumph, so the Bike that are the most expensive and break the most. Image is everything. Ego monkeys! No wonder that Suzuki is already saying goodbye to Germany with a market share of 2.8% of total sales.
Click to expand...
"They think they are kings of the road"
Some do. Roughly half of them pointedly ignore other riders,over here at least.
Those types are Something of the road for sure.
 
Parmenion said:
After three R1200GSs and three S1000XRs I couldn't stand their unreliability, although they were very satisfying when they did't break down. The R1200GS had no rear brake and stalled frequently at traffic stops, one XR had a bad cam incident (3 weeks in the shop and 2.500,00 Euros paid by warranty), the other XR (2020 model) had 3 times a dead ignition coil in three different cylinders, a quickshifter malfunction twice and a passenger footpeg lost somewhere in the mountains I ride. All were covered by warranty but the downtime was a dealbraker for me. The last XR was in the shop for 3 of the 6 months of ownership. Also parts had to come from Germany which took 15-20 days. Note that I live in Europe so it takes 2-3 days from a package from Germany to Greece. The European motorcycle manufacturers leave development to customers and issue a million recalls after a lot of problems that surface when riding in the real world.
I test rode a S1000RR and I have only good things to say, mind the reliability gamble.
The Busa is way more potent in low and middle rpm which makes it faster in real world riding but not in the track. The issue with the Busa is the weight when riding in tight roads. It is almost solved with a lighter exhaust.
For the past 6 months I ride a Busa Gen3 with full Akra (-14 kg and +12,5HP without ECU flash yet) and it is more satisfying than all the BM's I 've had. 12000 km on the odo and zero problems. Also maintenance is almost half the cost of a BMW.
Click to expand...
I work togehter with a BMW/Suzuki Dealer, there is som kind of friendship between us. He talks very open to me! He showed me the Mountains of Papers from BMW with recalls, and even so the digital BMW Network instructions. Hell.....i was pale for a while!

The problems of BMWs are known everywhere, not just fairy tales or bad gossip from the competition. But the success is unbroken. There are people here who wait weeks or months for their bikes because there are no parts, but BMW forbids them to ride their bikes. And they still praise this crap in the sky. As if they were indoctrinated. My dealer also says he's grateful for BMW. Because the customers pay whatever is asked. Customer service for a Busa 245 euros, for a BMW GS1250 just 850 euros. Without BMW, he would have been bankrupt long ago, because at Suzuki he had hardly anything apart from customer service. You get a set of tires or an accessory part, but otherwise you don't see the customers. You can't make money on that! Since trading BMW, he has had to hire employees, has a full workshop all the time and Suzuki only stands around there occasionally because he loves the brand. But only with Suzuki would he be finished long ago. He openly admits. A friend of mine bought a new S1000RR in 2019 and then told me in March 2020: "yeah, finally my S1RR is at home." I was happy for him, he had to leave the machine at the dealer since September, 5 callbacks had to be edited. Too thin crankcase, cracks in the oil pan, leaky brakes, defective display and defective shift camera system. So I'm happy for him and said "well let's go now". Then he looked a bit serious "no no ... I was allowed to take it home now ... but I am not allowed to drive it ...... the cylinder head still has to be replaced ... BUT then it is the best ever. Yeah ....... great ...... that is also an attitude.

prg said:
"They think they are kings of the road"
Some do. Roughly half of them pointedly ignore other riders,over here at least.
Those types are Something of the road for sure.
Click to expand...
This is not only the case with you! I mean the "King of the Road" as you notice it. Like the kings who want to be admired but ignore the normal person / biker. As if they were something better. In Germany it is a tradition that bikers always greet each other. Unfortunately this is decreasing more and more, even the boys say "boaaa..ey .... why is that? That's something for the old sacks". But generally a nice custom. But BMW riders? 8 out of 10 do not say hello at all, of the remaining 2 ... it is rather carelessly greeted back. It's a genre of its own, even if I don't want to generalize. Often they look down on Japanese Riders, only I wonder why? My motorcycle is fast, reliable, durable and still affordable. Everything I can't see in a BMW. Everyone has their own thing, but it is often difficult to be tolerant. ;)
 
So there is a reason people put up with BMW problems: The R1250 GS and adventure are arguably the best bikes ever made. They are incredibly capable, super flexible, very fun to ride, comfortable, and thoroughly sorted. Every time I ride mine I think "what a f'n stoking bike." However, this is not just hype, or solely an opinion issue. The build quality is significantly above most bikes I have dissected. The BMW has two other big advantages. First is the wishbone front suspension, which is simply a better way to do suspension for all but race bikes. It separates turning and braking forces resulting in uncanny stability. It's even lighter than forks. The second thing is that big, ungainly looking engine. Turns out having the crank spinning parallel to the front-back axis of the motorcycle makes even a 500+ lb bike lay over on its side like my dog Dakota asking for a tummy scratch.

The S1000RR has been the best publicly available sportbike in the world as far as speed on a track. It is very well designed, handles awesomely, and has a very forgiving character due to a class-leading integration of mechanicals and electronics. The S1000 with the carbon fiber frame (230 HP and less than 350 lbs) would have changed motorcycling if the FIM was interested in truly remarkable prototype technology. The other guys have caught up lately, but the S1000RR was the dog in the toughest class for a long time.

BMW is not perfect though. My K1600 GT was the worse bike I have ever experienced. It was technically flawed, poorly executed, was super unstable (to the point of BMW having to limit the speed), and clearly a bike that needs to be retired. I waited for 6 months for a fix on the transmission and when I finally took it in I told them to keep it and took the loss to go to the 1250. I hated that bike so much I seriously considered having it crushed on YouTube!

The reliability issues are a mystery. I personally think BMW is building a high-quality product in a low-quality, mass-market way. Part of this is because BMW builds cars, bikes are a side job. Almost all of the notorious failures have been in subcontractor supplied parts. When there is a problem, BMW can't just fix it, there is a chain of actors they have to get in line - making them slow to address issues. Still, the magnitude of some of the failures is stunning - these are design flaws, not a guy having a bad day on the assembly line.

While the Busa is an amazing bike, you have to live with both to understand the jump in the quality you get from the Germans. The Busa' magic bullet is that engine, which in my opinion is the finest motorcycle engine ever built (with the ZX14). This was one of the things I tried to address in my build. I upgraded everywhere you touch the bike. Now, there is that solid, smooth feeling of quality on the controls the stock bike was missing. Brakes, MC's, suspension, steering damper, seat, etc. The feel of my Busa now is BMW-like. I do wonder if I had started all those mods with a Gen 3 (electronics) how good would that bike be? The bottom line is a steak from Outback will get the job done, but it ain't a steak from Morton's.

Is the BMW better than the Busa? Well yes, but here's why: The BMW is like the tool you use every day. It does so many things without compromise. The Busa is like a special purpose tool that is the only way to get the job of hyper-biking done. I really wish the Busa was a little more like the BMW in quality feel (maybe the Gen 3 is?), and the BMW had the Busa's simplicity and rock-solid reliability.
 
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