Weather Alarmists

[Bumblebee]

Some of my definitions:
I think = my gut feel, but very possible that I may be wrong,

I believe = I am pretty sure, but willing to change my opinion, as there is still a chance I may be wrong.

I know = I am 100% sure, everything is supported by hard facts and can be proven by science.

So in response to your post above, I believe in extraterrestrial life the way we understand life, but I know that humans have never truly experienced it, or have the senses to physically recognize it and it has never been present on earth other than distant bacteria during the formation of the planet billions of years ago.

Everyone has the right to their own opinions, beliefs and ideology.

 

[Tetsuo1000]

The only question that needs to be asked is, "Should we spend our resources on trying to change a system that is so complex that we don't really understand it?"

My opinion is yes we should try.
We are on a round spaceship hurtling through a radioactive vacuum. Let’s figure out the life support systems and HVAC controls.

 

[Dougyp333]

My opinion is yes we should try.
We are on a round spaceship hurtling through a radioactive vacuum. Let’s figure out the life support systems and HVAC controls.

Figure it out yes, then only change it if it really has to be done. The old worry of unintended consequences is a real thing when working with complex systems.

Of course money and power play a big role in the whole climate change debate as there are big winners and losers with a change in policy. Lets be honest this is not science driven for the most part.

 

[JeffSyh]

LOL, you are not into physics or chemical engineering are you? The tracking back thousands of years is pretty accurate. Do some research, rather than me explaining it all here.

They can accurately determine atmospheric CO2 levels well before that graph’s starting point.

Here is a tip though, if you don’t know what a compound is, or a proton, or a neutron, then don’t worry about it, just trust me,

If scientists have been so accurate and know exactly what and will happen with climate change why have they been wrong so many times before? Are they right this time? is the technology better now? Or are they just guessing again? I'm genuinely asking since you are so passionate about the subject.

 

[jellyrug]

If scientists have been so accurate and know exactly what and will happen with climate change why have they been wrong so many times before? Are they right this time? is the technology better now? Or are they just guessing again? I'm genuinely asking since you are so passionate about the subject.

Let's look at each individual case where you say they are wrong and see why?

I am just being realistic, based on proven methods of measurement. Do you question the actual measurement of CO2 in atmosphere, or do you question the process of measuring historical CO2 levels?

I am retired now, or should I say I run a business different from what my 40 year career was.

With 7 years of college, followed by many years of practical experience directly related to my qualifications, (unlike most who have an education they never use) the biggest frustration in my career was always working with folks, who are in a job without an educational and practical background related to their actual job. Science always wins, provided it is applied correctly.

Then you find the guy who has 10 years of experience and knows everything, however it is actually one month of experience repeated 120 times. They do not believe in science, math, physics and once the facts are proven in practice, their egos get in the way and they still want to argue.

 

[JeffSyh]

Let's look at each individual case where you say they are wrong and see why?

I am just being realistic, based on proven methods of measurement. Do you question the actual measurement of CO2 in atmosphere, or do you question the process of measuring historical CO2 levels?

I am retired now, or should I say I run a business different from what my 40 year career was.

With 7 years of college, followed by many years of practical experience directly related to my qualifications, (unlike most who have an education they never use) the biggest frustration in my career was always working with folks, who are in a job without an educational and practical background related to their actual job. Science always wins, provided it is applied correctly.

Then you find the guy who has 10 years of experience and knows everything, however it is actually one month of experience repeated 120 times. They do not believe in science, math, physics and once the facts are proven in practice, their egos get in the way and they still want to argue.

There has been so many scientist's stating since the first earth day in 1970 that the earth would end for a thousand different reasons... yet here we are, why have all those scientist's been wrong from 1970-2021? Can't be coincidence can it? I can source multiple articles if you want. But I'm sure with your knowledge you already know about most of them? Science and physics are trial and error and can be wrong it's not always right or true.

 

[Bumblebee]

There has been so many scientist's stating since the first earth day in 1970 that the earth would end for a thousand different reasons... yet here we are, why have all those scientist's been wrong from 1970-2021? Can't be coincidence can it? I can source multiple articles if you want. But I'm sure with your knowledge you already know about most of them? Science and physics are trial and error and can be wrong it's not always right or true.

It's simple, the more scientists say the sky is falling the larger the grant to study why....

I know many "book smart" people who don't have a clue as to what is going on outside their area of interest. I can't disclose the types of interactions I've had with a few of them but I was surprised as to how naïve they really are.

 

[jellyrug]

It's simple, the more scientists say the sky is falling the larger the grant to study why....

I know many "book smart" people who don't have a clue as to what is going on outside their area of interest. I can't disclose the types of interactions I've had with a few of them but I was surprised as to how naïve they really are.

Go to climate.nasa.gov read a bit and then send them a note and tell them they are wrong, you have the life experience to know better and get them back to reality.

 

[Bumblebee]

Go to climate.nasa.gov read a bit and then send them a note and tell them they are wrong, you have the life experience to know better and get them back to reality.

Maybe I'll just go there and knock on their door and tell them they are out to lunch....I'm sure this is something they've heard before.

As long as their funding is pouring in from the government, they are happy to tow the party line.

 

[jellyrug]

Maybe I'll just go there and knock on their door and tell them they are out to lunch....I'm sure this is something they've heard before.

As long as their funding is pouring in from the government, they are happy to tow the party line.

You sound like an Arabic associate I once worked with. He wanted to know why scientists are wasting their time exploring Mars. My answer was for more knowledge of our own planet and the universe. His reply was that one can find all those answers in the Koran.

 

[Bumblebee]

You sound like an Arabic associate I once worked with. He wanted to know why scientists are wasting their time exploring Mars. My answer was for more knowledge of our own planet and the universe. His reply was that one can find all those answers in the Koran.

He's not wrong...why are we wasting our time exploring Mars or even the moon...that's a good question.

The funding and research we are wasting on that could be going into fixing the place we now live.

Of course we as a species are not happy with just polluting our own planet but the surrounding space as well...the amount of space trash is staggering....

 

[fallenarch]

He's not wrong...why are we wasting our time exploring Mars or even the moon...that's a good question.

The funding and research we are wasting on that could be going into fixing the place we now live.

Of course we as a species are not happy with just polluting our own planet but the surrounding space as well...the amount of space trash is staggering....

Almost all of the higher technology we all now depend on was pushed forward by our race to the moon. The issues we have on this planet can be managed if we just focus our resources and efforts on them. What's more wasteful than developing ever more deadly technology to kill each other that hopefully, we'll never use?

Research into the stars is not the problem (it's a relatively small investment), it's allowing people to make money off the commons and then keep it all personally. Rebuilding our infrastructure and converting to a green economy is doing exactly what you are calling for as far as focusing resources on fixing the earth. But that is locked in political squabbles over control of the economy.

An interesting thing we can find out on Mars: Apparently, it was once Earth-like and for some reason lost its atmosphere for the most part - becoming a barren wasteland. If you are religious (any religion) your paradigm is that we have the final answer. If you believe in science and the pursuit of truth, your paradigm is that we don't yet know the truth and you'll be driven to find it. This is the thing that has motivated men since the enlightenment to build the technologies we enjoy today.

 

[jellyrug]

^^^

That was great wisdom in your post Arch.

What is scary, is the fact some people in very senior positions with a lot of power ignore all the data and all the red flags which will negatively affect our future generations if drastic changes are not made.

Ignorance is bliss among those who do not have the intellect to understand life on planet earth.

 

[Tetsuo1000]

Pursuit of data is everything.
no solutions without exploration

 

[Bumblebee]

Almost all of the higher technology we all now depend on was pushed forward by our race to the moon. The issues we have on this planet can be managed if we just focus our resources and efforts on them. What's more wasteful than developing ever more deadly technology to kill each other that hopefully, we'll never use?

Research into the stars is not the problem (it's a relatively small investment), it's allowing people to make money off the commons and then keep it all personally. Rebuilding our infrastructure and converting to a green economy is doing exactly what you are calling for as far as focusing resources on fixing the earth. But that is locked in political squabbles over control of the economy.

An interesting thing we can find out on Mars: Apparently, it was once Earth-like and for some reason lost its atmosphere for the most part - becoming a barren wasteland. If you are religious (any religion) your paradigm is that we have the final answer. If you believe in science and the pursuit of truth, your paradigm is that we don't yet know the truth and you'll be driven to find it. This is the thing that has motivated men since the enlightenment to build the technologies we enjoy today.

Nations have spent trillions upon trillions in the reach to the stars-to what avail?

We might discover Mars once had an earth like environment but did it become what is is now due to a natural event or were there actually settlements of intelligent life there which eliminated themselves?? We may never know that answer and frankly why should we care? If we want to see the destruction of a planet, we only have to look out our own window(s). All the universe needs is a destructive species such as human beings to be out polluting the rest of the galaxy.

We have formed the WHO, NATO, UN and many other formations to protect mankind, why not a pollution formation which helps and enforces the cleaning of our own planet, many nations are on the verge of being uninhabitable and yet here are some of these same nations spending trillions on space exploration....not only is this negligent but it is almost criminal.

Much of the higher technology we enjoy today is partially from the space race but more so from the arms race, out strive to effectively destroy one another has led to giant leaps in technology. We are developing very advanced ways of killing each other without using nuclear weaponry. There is very advanced tech being used out there which is not disclosed to the public, some of which would keep people up at night.

I say fix what's broke first, then go out to find other things to break and then fix.

 

[Bumblebee]

Pursuit of data is everything.
no solutions without exploration

That worked great for the settlements of indigenous people around the world who encountered the first non-indigenous explorers didn't it?

How many ways of life were terminated in the name of exploration?

 

[Bumblebee]

^^^

That was great wisdom in your post Arch.

What is scary, is the fact some people in very senior positions with a lot of power ignore all the data and all the red flags which will negatively affect our future generations if drastic changes are not made.

Ignorance is bliss among those who do not have the intellect to understand life on planet earth.

Amen on that!

How much time, effort and finances are wasted on frivolous things when efforts should be focused on fixing the world in which we live?

I find it kind of ironic when nations are fighting and destroying each other over either religion or some political gain when the very earth they are fighting on is gasping for breath...

It's akin to someone having a terminal illness yet worrying about getting a nose job.

 

[jellyrug]

Nations have spent trillions upon trillions in the reach to the stars-to what avail?

We might discover Mars once had an earth like environment but did it become what is is now due to a natural event or were there actually settlements of intelligent life there which eliminated themselves?? We may never know that answer and frankly why should we care? If we want to see the destruction of a planet, we only have to look out our own window(s). All the universe needs is a destructive species such as human beings to be out polluting the rest of the galaxy.

We have formed the WHO, NATO, UN and many other formations to protect mankind, why not a pollution formation which helps and enforces the cleaning of our own planet, many nations are on the verge of being uninhabitable and yet here are some of these same nations spending trillions on space exploration....not only is this negligent but it is almost criminal.

Much of the higher technology we enjoy today is partially from the space race but more so from the arms race, out strive to effectively destroy one another has led to giant leaps in technology. We are developing very advanced ways of killing each other without using nuclear weaponry. There is very advanced tech being used out there which is not disclosed to the public, some of which would keep people up at night.

I say fix what's broke first, then go out to find other things to break and then fix.

You kind of flip flop?

On the one hand you ignore science regarding saving our environment and you suggest it is a money making hoax. Your opinion was so strong, I almost wondered if you still thought the earth is flat.

Then you say “If we want to see the destruction of a planet, we only need to look out our own windows.”

So here you are with total contradictions, you believe extraterrestrial aliens walk the earth, scientists are all wrong with the objective of only making money and mankind should stick their heads in the sand and close their eyes regarding the universe.

Earlier you chose that humans are not smart enough to survive ultimately on the planet. Another contradiction, in terms of wasting money in exploration?

LOL

We know the sun is expanding and eventually far in the future earth will no longer be able to sustain life as we know it today. Have you perhaps though that survival of the fittest is proportional to intellect? Or that intellect may extend the life of the human race beyond boundaries we cannot even imagine today.

 

[Bumblebee]

You kind of flip flop?

On the one hand you ignore science regarding saving our environment and you suggest it is a money making hoax. Your opinion was so strong, I almost wondered if you still thought the earth is flat.

Then you say “If we want to see the destruction of a planet, we only need to look out our own windows.”

So here you are with total contradictions, you believe extraterrestrial aliens walk the earth, scientists are all wrong with the objective of only making money and mankind should stick their heads in the sand and close their eyes regarding the universe.

Earlier you chose that humans are not smart enough to survive ultimately on the planet. Another contradiction, in terms of wasting money in exploration?

LOL

We know the sun is expanding and eventually far in the future earth will no longer be able to sustain life as we know it today. Have you perhaps though that survival of the fittest is proportional to intellect? Or that intellect may extend the life of the human race beyond boundaries we cannot even imagine today.

Not really "flip flopping"

I still believe scientists are driven by funding and the more they say the "sky is falling", the more funding they receive...I say it's time to knuckle down and stop the rhetoric and start the hard work. If the scientific world is chiming the alarm bell, it is falling on deaf ears as nobody is listening or actioning this alarm. Every single person on this travelling circus has a stake in this game but how many people care?

As for sticking our heads in the sand, I believe we need to sort ourselves out before going to other terrestrial bodies. There are nations going to space when their own country is in a deplorable state (India, China) and that financial expenditure would be better served sorting out their country before worrying about going to space.

I do believe in extraterrestrial beings, I've seen aerial craft I can't explain-people don't talk about this stuff as they are labelled a "kook" but I know what I saw. One would have to be pretty obtuse to look up at all those stars each night of which most are distant suns to think we are alone and unique.

 

[JeffSyh]

You kind of flip flop?

On the one hand you ignore science regarding saving our environment and you suggest it is a money making hoax. Your opinion was so strong, I almost wondered if you still thought the earth is flat.

Then you say “If we want to see the destruction of a planet, we only need to look out our own windows.”

So here you are with total contradictions, you believe extraterrestrial aliens walk the earth, scientists are all wrong with the objective of only making money and mankind should stick their heads in the sand and close their eyes regarding the universe.

Earlier you chose that humans are not smart enough to survive ultimately on the planet. Another contradiction, in terms of wasting money in exploration?

LOL

We know the sun is expanding and eventually far in the future earth will no longer be able to sustain life as we know it today. Have you perhaps though that survival of the fittest is proportional to intellect? Or that intellect may extend the life of the human race beyond boundaries we cannot even imagine today.

Well said but intellect does not translate into "survival of the fittest" if anything it's hindering. Creatures/insects/germ/microbes etc with extremely little intelligence actually have a better chance of surviving due to their instincts of pure survival with no emotions and little to no congnitive thought. A tardy bear will out live any human/primate for millions if not billions of years till the sun super novas. But you still haven't answered my question about scientists being wrong and you saying science is always right.