XTRE better then 20ct.mod

djsin said:
if the bike is a fist gen why not just turn off the limiter in the stock ecu using ecu editer and a wire harness from schnitz racing or make one for about 40$ the software is free
while your in there you can raise your rpm limiter and change some other things too
Click to expand...

yes good point, who do you think makes the setups for Schnitz? :cheerleader:

Only reason I posted the gen 1 tables is because the 08's haven't been hacked yet, and I am sure the 08 follows a very similar setup for ram air compensation based on gear just like the Gen 1's.

Most people don't understand what a TRE does, it was meant as a tutorial.
 
smithabusa said:
and here is a comparison from teh 5th gear ram air compensation to the 1st gear compensation. So all values are positive, meaning 5th gear gets more fueling than 1st gear in the ram air compensation table

So by using a TRE, you set your ram air compensation to 5th gear values all the time, making the bike richer in the lower gears.

gear5.jpg
Click to expand...

"bad thing is that you kill the bikes ability to do gear based ram air fuel compensation, you now put more fuel at the bike in the lower gears."

"So by using a TRE, you set your ram air compensation to 5th gear values all the time, making the bike richer in the lower gears."

Is this bad for the bike?
 
Bad for driveability and hp yes, if you have a TRE on the bike and happy with it, no problem, its not going to damage anything. Directionally its the wrong way to go adding fuel in the lower gears.
 
I put one on mine and didn't like it. Ran way rich in the lower rpm range. Sold it to my buddy and he loves it. We did some roll ons in 3rd and 4th with the tre on his bike and he pulled away pretty hard in the lower rpm range! That was two 08's with two brothers slip ons. Now I have a bmc race and a full yoshi, no more pulley on me!!!:laugh:
 
RatherBusa said:
Can't say I understand what you mean here...
Click to expand...

adding a TRE gives you more timing in the lower gears, also gives you more fueling, you dont need more fuel in the lower gears, hence being rich. Some dudes love it, some hate them, i am in the hate them crowd. But they sell TONS of TRE's so to each there own, I am just trying to help explain what they do, not bash them LOL.

Greg
 
smithabusa said:
adding a TRE gives you more timing in the lower gears, also gives you more fueling, you dont need more fuel in the lower gears, hence being rich. Some dudes love it, some hate them, i am in the hate them crowd. But they sell TONS of TRE's so to each there own, I am just trying to help explain what they do, not bash them LOL.

Greg
Click to expand...

Nah, didn't take it like that at all, I just wasn't following you...
 
TulBusa said:
Also, are they showing the 2nd gear dyno chart using 5th gear map and then choosing 4th gear map for the 6the gear dyno, "schmoozing" the numbers?
Click to expand...

Just thinking outloud.
- gear 1,2,3 using 5th gear map, gives more full (sould be less HP) but it loses the temperd maps for those gears so in the end is shows more HP.
HP’s probably also notable on the track (next to the extra use of full)

- 6th gear dyno with 4th gear map, gives less full (sould be less HP) but without ramair on a dyno it shows more HP. On the track you probably don’t have as big advantage with the ramair as in 5th or 6th mapping

So XTRE (in 5th gear mapping) will do the same for the 6th gear as the 20ct.mod, but then still showing the correct gear.
And it gives (maybe) a little more HP in gears 1,2,3 against more full consumption.
 
Madman_K said:
Just thinking outloud.
- gear 1,2,3 using 5th gear map, gives more full (sould be less HP) but it loses the temperd maps for those gears so in the end is shows more HP.
HP’s probably also notable on the track (next to the extra use of full)

- 6th gear dyno with 4th gear map, gives less full (sould be less HP) but without ramair on a dyno it shows more HP. On the track you probably don’t have as big advantage with the ramair as in 5th or 6th mapping

So XTRE (in 5th gear mapping) will do the same for the 6th gear as the 20ct.mod, but then still showing the correct gear.
And it gives (maybe) a little more HP in gears 1,2,3 against more full consumption.
Click to expand...

This sounds right.

While I definitely notice more pull and throttle sensitivity with the XTRE, I also notice me pulling my money out for gas more often... gas goes a lot more quickly now. Of course I rev much higher now with the XTRE.
 
But what is you get a Put a Power commander on the bike. Wouldn't you be able to tune it out, so you won't have to have so much extra fuel in the lower gears.
 
I'm sorry, but this is driving me nuts.???
Making any change to your map without getting a dyno baseline is like taking medication without talking to a doctor. That is exactly what you are doing with this mod.

Even after you make a baseline change with a dyno, you need to do real time tuning with a datalogger because a dyno tune has no compensation for ram air even though they are typically done in 4th gear. Its just a starting point. Getting rid of gear based / speed based fuel compensation is just silly. This is one of the most important advantages of ram air fuel injection. Even if the dyno charts in the front of the thread weren't bogus they mean nothing until you go out on the street. I personally question that the only difference between the dyno curves are due to different rH and atmospheric pressure.

Don't believe me becasue I'm just some talking head on the internet. People like Brock will tell you to leave this mod alone because you will go slower. The 6th gear mod is different because its necessary for de-restricting the speed if you plan on land speed racing.

BTW, the Power commander has no way to adjust fuel based on speed or gear unless you buy the hub, and (I'm pretty sure) the hub won't work after you do this mod.
 
Draco1340 said:
I'm sorry, but this is driving me nuts.???
Making any change to your map without getting a dyno baseline is like taking medication without talking to a doctor. That is exactly what you are doing with this mod.

Even after you make a baseline change with a dyno, you need to do real time tuning with a datalogger because a dyno tune has no compensation for ram air even though they are typically done in 4th gear. Its just a starting point. Getting rid of gear based / speed based fuel compensation is just silly. This is one of the most important advantages of ram air fuel injection. Even if the dyno charts in the front of the thread weren't bogus they mean nothing until you go out on the street. I personally question that the only difference between the dyno curves are due to different rH and atmospheric pressure.

Don't believe me becasue I'm just some talking head on the internet. People like Brock will tell you to leave this mod alone because you will go slower. The 6th gear mod is different because its necessary for de-restricting the speed if you plan on land speed racing.

BTW, the Power commander has no way to adjust fuel based on speed or gear unless you buy the hub, and (I'm pretty sure) the hub won't work after you do this mod.
Click to expand...
Maybe now they'll listen.:whistle:
 
[QUOwell all what you guy have been saying makes sense. But all this is new to me.=BusaWizard;1836870]Maybe now they'll listen.:whistle:[/QUOTE]
Posted via Mobile Device
 
"ram air" how much positive pressure do you think you get from the stock scoops? because using foam to seal the ducts from the air box the the frame doesn't seal anything, i bet at speed you would be lucky to get 5 cmwp from the intake system. besides i thought eliminating the timing retard + extra fuel is where you pick up the extra power.
 
if there isn't more air flowing in the upper gears I wonder why Suzuki adds fuel? They must not know what they are doing :whistle:
 
they put secondary butterflies for a mode switch on a bike that is suppose to be unrestricted to 186 and the "fastest" yeah i think they're losing it a little... or slowing it down a little like kawasaki did with the zx-14
 
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