perfect example of B.S.
2007 Hayabusa (I think this is the real deal)
- Thread starter EGnX
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HayaVegas/Justintime2- Do your homework...
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/ldrpg
1999 was a long time ago...
Almost every single magazine test comparison since 2000 to 2005 has put the ZX12R as the faster bike, in which case the Hayabusa wasn't able to reach the 186mph limiter in most of the magazine tests.
The tests back in 1999 and 2000 that were the most memorable were the 200.1mph run that was later found to be VERY Inaccurate... and the 194mph run that was done on an 8 freakin mile straight in perfect conditions! Both of which are results that no other magazine in the history of the world has been able to reproduce in the last 6 years.
The Busa is fast... but not nearly as fast as it's reported to be. I think a lot of you have seen this in personal testing. I checked out the top speed forum here and nobody has even broken 190mph on GPS with their modified piped Busa's.
Suzuki has sold thousands of Busa's based on "The Great Busa Lie" that it does 200mph stock or is by far and away the worlds fastest production bike.
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/ldrpg
1999 was a long time ago...
Almost every single magazine test comparison since 2000 to 2005 has put the ZX12R as the faster bike, in which case the Hayabusa wasn't able to reach the 186mph limiter in most of the magazine tests.
The tests back in 1999 and 2000 that were the most memorable were the 200.1mph run that was later found to be VERY Inaccurate... and the 194mph run that was done on an 8 freakin mile straight in perfect conditions! Both of which are results that no other magazine in the history of the world has been able to reproduce in the last 6 years.
The Busa is fast... but not nearly as fast as it's reported to be. I think a lot of you have seen this in personal testing. I checked out the top speed forum here and nobody has even broken 190mph on GPS with their modified piped Busa's.
Suzuki has sold thousands of Busa's based on "The Great Busa Lie" that it does 200mph stock or is by far and away the worlds fastest production bike.
You got it all wrong brother... I respect and admire the Hayabusa just as much as the ZX12R.
I like BOTH bikes and see them as brothers in arms, not rivals.
I have no hate propeganda... just wanting to dispell 6 year old myths, half truths, and assumptions.
If you don't like to hear the truth and you choose to close your eyes and ears to anything that can potentially burst your "busa bubble"... that's your problem.
I'm not here to make friends... or enemies, just to bring the facts to the table and bring an informed view to the conversation.
HayaVegas and Justintime2 mentioned that the ZX12R does not have the Top Speed Crown... I have a different opinion and proof to back it up.... 14 different RECENT magazine test to be exact. No ancient tests done half a decade ago in questionable conditions.
Hell, if you want to get REAL techinical, the ONLY ECTA production bike run was done by Doug Meyer on a 2000 ZX12R in which he hit a CERTIFIED 192mph at Maxton and 199mph with a muzzy pipe and mirrors removed.
As far as I know... that's the FASTEST TRUE OFFICIAL ECTA CERTIFIED stock production run recorded. That's the run that should have been mentioned in Guiness.... not some backwood magazine test done on an 8 mile stretch!
Again, let me reiterate that I like both bikes and respect them both... but facts are facts.
I like BOTH bikes and see them as brothers in arms, not rivals.
I have no hate propeganda... just wanting to dispell 6 year old myths, half truths, and assumptions.
If you don't like to hear the truth and you choose to close your eyes and ears to anything that can potentially burst your "busa bubble"... that's your problem.
I'm not here to make friends... or enemies, just to bring the facts to the table and bring an informed view to the conversation.
HayaVegas and Justintime2 mentioned that the ZX12R does not have the Top Speed Crown... I have a different opinion and proof to back it up.... 14 different RECENT magazine test to be exact. No ancient tests done half a decade ago in questionable conditions.
Hell, if you want to get REAL techinical, the ONLY ECTA production bike run was done by Doug Meyer on a 2000 ZX12R in which he hit a CERTIFIED 192mph at Maxton and 199mph with a muzzy pipe and mirrors removed.
As far as I know... that's the FASTEST TRUE OFFICIAL ECTA CERTIFIED stock production run recorded. That's the run that should have been mentioned in Guiness.... not some backwood magazine test done on an 8 mile stretch!
Again, let me reiterate that I like both bikes and respect them both... but facts are facts.
1300hemibusa
Registered
I have said it before and will say it again....I was thinking of adding a zx12 to my collection.....The one thing that keeps me from doing so is that Butt lick PH12.....I don't want to own anything that that fools owns . Hell if he went out and got a Busa i would sell both of mine and get a honda cb100...This guy is the biggest moron i have ever crossed paths in my life.. God this guy makes Forest Gump look smart...
BentValve- I don't know about all that... I think the main reason the Busa sells so well is because it's a status symbol due to its exaggerated repuatation. What's the cornerstone of the Hayabusa's marketing? "The Worlds Fastest Production Bike". That's what sells the busa...to say anything else is just a lie.
everyone walks into the showroom and asks, "what's the fastest bike available"... and of course you're pointed towards the Hayabusa because the Guiness Book of Records refered to one controversial test back in 1999 done by a MAGAZINE.
It's hilarious. You get these guys who hear the 200mph STOCK rumour and they come running to their suzuki dealers asking for the "Hiabooster".
Hell, I know some Hayabusa OWNERS that still think it's called a "Hiabooster".
The hayabusa is a victim of it's own success. With the fame and glory of the magazines and exaggerated rumors... comes the posers and wannabe's that drop $10,500 at their local dealership to have "bragging rights" in the parking lots at bike night or on internet forums. Sad really.
Anyway, that's why Suzuki sells the Busa like hotcakes. Don't kid yourself into thinking it's because it's just that overall superior... because it's not. Just about every single OVERALL test comparo has put the ZX12R above and beyond the Hayabusa in terms of OVERALL comparision. Do the research on the website I provided... the scans of all the magazines are there for you to read.
But I do respect your opinion... and if you think the Busa is the better bike, Good for you! That's all that matters and I'm glad you're happy with your purchase. The Hayabusa is an amazing bike, if the ZX12R did not exist... I'd be a PROUD Busa owner myself.
I will give you this though... it is better 2-up... it is better in the sport touring department... it does have more low/midrange torque... it does have more comfortable ergo's.... which is why it's actually considered a SPORT TOURER by today's standards where as the ZX12R is by definition and classification... a SPORTBIKE. I guess it's about what YOU value more as a rider. If you often have a passenger, take long trips, cruise around town... the Busa is the better bike. If you like backroads, aggressive highway riding, and great windprotection.....the ZX12R is the better bike. To each his own I guess. The "BETTER" bike will always very according to the application intended.
1300hemibusa- Don't buy a ZX12R... please. Believe it or not... us 12r guys LOVE the fact that there are few of us around. We LOVE the fact that we don't attract 1/10th the amount of posers and bench racers that the Hayabusa's do. We LOVE the fact that we're underestimated when we outperform you overestimated undereducated Busa guys.
So please, don't buy a ZX12R...
As for your personal insults like "buttlick" and "Forrest Gump".... let's try and keep this on an adult level. If you are unable to carry a mature conversation/debate/arguement/whatever..... please don't post, because I'm not the one that's looking "stupid" when you make comments like that.
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everyone walks into the showroom and asks, "what's the fastest bike available"... and of course you're pointed towards the Hayabusa because the Guiness Book of Records refered to one controversial test back in 1999 done by a MAGAZINE.
It's hilarious. You get these guys who hear the 200mph STOCK rumour and they come running to their suzuki dealers asking for the "Hiabooster".
Hell, I know some Hayabusa OWNERS that still think it's called a "Hiabooster".
The hayabusa is a victim of it's own success. With the fame and glory of the magazines and exaggerated rumors... comes the posers and wannabe's that drop $10,500 at their local dealership to have "bragging rights" in the parking lots at bike night or on internet forums. Sad really.
Anyway, that's why Suzuki sells the Busa like hotcakes. Don't kid yourself into thinking it's because it's just that overall superior... because it's not. Just about every single OVERALL test comparo has put the ZX12R above and beyond the Hayabusa in terms of OVERALL comparision. Do the research on the website I provided... the scans of all the magazines are there for you to read.
But I do respect your opinion... and if you think the Busa is the better bike, Good for you! That's all that matters and I'm glad you're happy with your purchase. The Hayabusa is an amazing bike, if the ZX12R did not exist... I'd be a PROUD Busa owner myself.
I will give you this though... it is better 2-up... it is better in the sport touring department... it does have more low/midrange torque... it does have more comfortable ergo's.... which is why it's actually considered a SPORT TOURER by today's standards where as the ZX12R is by definition and classification... a SPORTBIKE. I guess it's about what YOU value more as a rider. If you often have a passenger, take long trips, cruise around town... the Busa is the better bike. If you like backroads, aggressive highway riding, and great windprotection.....the ZX12R is the better bike. To each his own I guess. The "BETTER" bike will always very according to the application intended.
1300hemibusa- Don't buy a ZX12R... please. Believe it or not... us 12r guys LOVE the fact that there are few of us around. We LOVE the fact that we don't attract 1/10th the amount of posers and bench racers that the Hayabusa's do. We LOVE the fact that we're underestimated when we outperform you overestimated undereducated Busa guys.
So please, don't buy a ZX12R...
As for your personal insults like "buttlick" and "Forrest Gump".... let's try and keep this on an adult level. If you are unable to carry a mature conversation/debate/arguement/whatever..... please don't post, because I'm not the one that's looking "stupid" when you make comments like that.
<!--EDIT|Phantom12
Reason for Edit: None given...|1123449428 -->
1300hemibusa
Registered
Thanks PH12 you stold my come back from a post on another web site ....Make up your own come backs and don't copy mine ...
What are you talking about? I didn't intentionally steal anything from anywhere. If it resembles something you once said.... it was purely coincidence.
By the way, it's "Stole". Stold isn't even a word, at least not in the english dictionary.
Although my 5 year old nephew seems to think so!
By the way, it's "Stole". Stold isn't even a word, at least not in the english dictionary.
Although my 5 year old nephew seems to think so!
1300hemibusa
Registered
Keep it up you are doing great ..The ship is sinking fast....What are you talking about? I didn't intentionally steal anything from anywhere. If it resembles something you once said.... it was purely coincidence.
By the way, it's "Stole". Stold isn't even a word, at least not in the english dictionary.
Although my 5 year old nephew seems to think so!
I think its funny Ph12....I got a friend here that has a brand new zx12r and we raced not once but 5 times and he's one hell of a rider. I dusted him every time and got other board members that belong here that can and will verify that..take it back to labusa....and for the record let me know when your ready...I left you a new message....talk the talk bro...lets see you walk the walk.... Im waiting
1300hemibusa- What ship is sinking? The way I see it... you're the one looking for a life raft by resorting to petty personal insults.
Creekboy- Sweet Jesus... you won a race against a ZX12R... that must mean NO ZX12R's can beat you. That must mean that every busa can beat any ZX12R. I'm so glad your little backroad testing cleared all this up for me.
Ever hear of something called "variables"? You take 10 different people and stick them on the same bike and you'll get 10 different E/T's and MPH's. You found someone who is slower than YOU, of course you'll beat him 5 out of 5. You didn't happen to SWITCH bikes to see the result, did you? No, of course you didn't... you were happy that YOUR bike won and you wanted to keep it that way.
Hell, there's 1 Busa Kill story for every 1 ZX12R Kill story... what makes YOUR story so difinitively special?
Also take into consideration the mods and tuning on each bike... even if both bikes have the SAME mods... they may not be tuned the same giving one bike the advantage over the other.
Rider weight has a lot to do with it as well. 20 pounds equates to 1mph worth of acceleration.. roughly 2.5 bike lengths in a period of 10 seconds.
Again... soooo many variables, it makes your "test" indifinative. Only thing you proved was that YOU on YOUR Busa was faster than HIM on HIS ZX12R.... and nothing more.
Take that and $1.05 and you got yourself a cup of coffee.
As for the business on LABUSAS... we'll handle that there Mr. Bling.
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Creekboy- Sweet Jesus... you won a race against a ZX12R... that must mean NO ZX12R's can beat you. That must mean that every busa can beat any ZX12R. I'm so glad your little backroad testing cleared all this up for me.
Ever hear of something called "variables"? You take 10 different people and stick them on the same bike and you'll get 10 different E/T's and MPH's. You found someone who is slower than YOU, of course you'll beat him 5 out of 5. You didn't happen to SWITCH bikes to see the result, did you? No, of course you didn't... you were happy that YOUR bike won and you wanted to keep it that way.
Hell, there's 1 Busa Kill story for every 1 ZX12R Kill story... what makes YOUR story so difinitively special?
Also take into consideration the mods and tuning on each bike... even if both bikes have the SAME mods... they may not be tuned the same giving one bike the advantage over the other.
Rider weight has a lot to do with it as well. 20 pounds equates to 1mph worth of acceleration.. roughly 2.5 bike lengths in a period of 10 seconds.
Again... soooo many variables, it makes your "test" indifinative. Only thing you proved was that YOU on YOUR Busa was faster than HIM on HIS ZX12R.... and nothing more.
Take that and $1.05 and you got yourself a cup of coffee.
As for the business on LABUSAS... we'll handle that there Mr. Bling.
<!--EDIT|Phantom12
Reason for Edit: None given...|1123451107 -->
wish I had a TROLL emoticon......
who was the first? dispell a 6inch dream you clown. 6year myth... hahaa only in your world.
nobody here has ever encountered a ZX12, nobody here has ever known a ZX12 owner....
any of the above would tell you what you want to hear, both the busa and the twelve are evenly mathced stock/stock at the dragstrip where numbers don't lie.
if you're here to stir the pot, you succeeded. Aside from that, enjoy life and this message board, or just get the f8uck outta here.
ever "notice" ...how the "new recruits" always seem to come up with.." All the New news ' deem'd printable ?
!!!!!!!!!! Whoa, Phantom12, where did I say that the 12 does not have the speed crown?
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? I didnt commit either way.
Dont just gloss over what I wrote. I specifically said that it was funny that no one here on this busa forum wanted to touch the paragraph that said that suzuki would have to "recapture" the speed crown from the zx12r. The point being that there is obviously a legion of people in the uk that realize the zx12r's ability.
How does that show my saying the 12 isnt faster?
I owned a 12r, and I now own a busa. The two bikes are the same speed, Ive said it a million times. However I like the busa better for comfort and ride height. I also like the busa better for touring options such as a backrest for pillions.
The zx12r is not slower than the busa. Only diehard busa blowhards think the 12r is slower. Anyone who has owned both knows that they are the same speed. Anyone who says otherwise is letting pride get in the way of fact.
The Kawasaki equals the busa and its down about 100cc YET UP ABOUT 8hp to do it. The busa has better aerodynamics, so it manages to reach the same top speed as the 12r with lower compression and lower HP output.
The busa is a better built bike than the Kawasaki, and if Kawasaki wouldnt put their 12 together like some damned japanese torture puzzle, more people would have bought them to work on and to turbo.
A steering damper should've been incorporated into every zx12r, also...because the front end is a squirrely deathtrap.
The bodywork on the zx12r is shoddy and cheap. No excuse for it, - but the fact is - it has a stompin strong engine that allows the zx12r to go as fast as a busa without the extra 100cc displacement, and it still makes more horsepower stock, and makes a LOT more horsepower with equal mod for mod with the busa.
But you cant turbo it easily and it is a ##### to even get at the battery.
Overall the busa is a better bike in my opinion, but the 12r is the next best thing. Each is no faster than the other.
Dont just gloss over what I wrote. I specifically said that it was funny that no one here on this busa forum wanted to touch the paragraph that said that suzuki would have to "recapture" the speed crown from the zx12r. The point being that there is obviously a legion of people in the uk that realize the zx12r's ability.
How does that show my saying the 12 isnt faster?
I owned a 12r, and I now own a busa. The two bikes are the same speed, Ive said it a million times. However I like the busa better for comfort and ride height. I also like the busa better for touring options such as a backrest for pillions.
The zx12r is not slower than the busa. Only diehard busa blowhards think the 12r is slower. Anyone who has owned both knows that they are the same speed. Anyone who says otherwise is letting pride get in the way of fact.
The Kawasaki equals the busa and its down about 100cc YET UP ABOUT 8hp to do it. The busa has better aerodynamics, so it manages to reach the same top speed as the 12r with lower compression and lower HP output.
The busa is a better built bike than the Kawasaki, and if Kawasaki wouldnt put their 12 together like some damned japanese torture puzzle, more people would have bought them to work on and to turbo.
A steering damper should've been incorporated into every zx12r, also...because the front end is a squirrely deathtrap.
The bodywork on the zx12r is shoddy and cheap. No excuse for it, - but the fact is - it has a stompin strong engine that allows the zx12r to go as fast as a busa without the extra 100cc displacement, and it still makes more horsepower stock, and makes a LOT more horsepower with equal mod for mod with the busa.
But you cant turbo it easily and it is a ##### to even get at the battery.
Overall the busa is a better bike in my opinion, but the 12r is the next best thing. Each is no faster than the other.
1300hemibusa
Registered
PH12 Chickened out ... This is his reply to Creekboy....The ship has landed at the bottom of the sea ...lol lol lolI think its funny Ph12....I got a friend here that has a brand new zx12r and we raced not once but 5 times and he's one hell of a rider. I dusted him every time and got other board members that belong here that can and will verify that..take it back to labusa....and for the record let me know when your ready...I left you a new message....talk the talk bro...lets see you walk the walk.... Im waiting
....
LOL! Classic.... come out and talk big and bad... set the stakes high to scare me and anyone else off.
I hear the same #### in the hooter's parking lot on bike night....
there's a name for it in poker, it's called buying the pot.
Congrats, it worked! I'm not going to travel all the way to YOU... and put up my 10k bike and all the $$ I've put into it. Not worth the risk... especially not for a blinged out Busa.
I still think you're full of crap... I'm just not willing to risk almost $15,000 to prove it.
Call it a "punk out" or whatever.... I'm not the one hiding behind words and alledged credibility. You know the power my bike is making... if you've done any sort of search, you'd see I've done 203mph (GPS) on it. Nothing super impressive.. but it's more than we know about you.
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Cache- No trolling here... trust me. I've posted on other threads with helpful information... not just debating the Busa/12 issue. I'm here to conversate, learn, and share whatever I can.
You obviously have a brain, you don't need to resort to calling me a clown to get your point across like 1300hemibusa.
You say the Busa and ZX12R are equals at the drag strip... In all honesty, I'd say that isn't true at all. I'll be the first one to say the Busa has a clear advantage at the strip!
Lower, longer, front heavy, and gobs of low end torque that allows you to launch smoothly and safely from lower RPM's make the Busa a better choice at the strip. The Busa has always been regarded as a bike that makes a decent rider look GOOD. The ZX12R on the other hand is a little different. Although in expert hands, the ZX12R is every bit as quick... it takes quite a bit more skill to get it to be so. The 12R has the bore/stroke ratio of a ZX9R... it's a revver and makes most of it's torque/hp up top thanks to it's high lift cams and short stroke (55.4mm!!!). That being said... you need to launch it like a 1000 to get it to jump out the hole... but by doing this you run a higher risk of lifting the front wheel.
The shorter wheelbase (nearly a full inch) and taller ride height (an inch or so) make it even harder to keep the front end down. The ZX12R can make a decent rider look bad if he hasn't figured out how to ride it correctly.
One good thing is that the 12R makes up ground down the back half with it's peaky motor that holds peak power practically till the rev limiter... the ultra efficient ram air doesn't hurt at 140mph either.
I'll give the Busa credit when credit is due.... but being that it's such a single purpose oriented design.... the low, long, front heavy is a disadvantage in handling... that's where the ZX12R's sporty dimensions show their use.
PERFORMANCE BIKES magazine I believe did a test on the 2005 models and the ZX12R ran a lap time 7.5 seconds faster than the Hayabusa... also averaging 5mph faster around the road course. For anyone who does track days... you know even a couple seconds is a giant gap.... 7.5 seconds in one lap is homicide.
Anyhow... I'll say it again... I'm not trolling, just giving my view on the matter and supporting it with facts. You or anyone else is more than welcome to DEBATE my argument like adults. Hell, we only have to GAIN from sharing each other's views and discussing them. Right?
You obviously have a brain, you don't need to resort to calling me a clown to get your point across like 1300hemibusa.
You say the Busa and ZX12R are equals at the drag strip... In all honesty, I'd say that isn't true at all. I'll be the first one to say the Busa has a clear advantage at the strip!
Lower, longer, front heavy, and gobs of low end torque that allows you to launch smoothly and safely from lower RPM's make the Busa a better choice at the strip. The Busa has always been regarded as a bike that makes a decent rider look GOOD. The ZX12R on the other hand is a little different. Although in expert hands, the ZX12R is every bit as quick... it takes quite a bit more skill to get it to be so. The 12R has the bore/stroke ratio of a ZX9R... it's a revver and makes most of it's torque/hp up top thanks to it's high lift cams and short stroke (55.4mm!!!). That being said... you need to launch it like a 1000 to get it to jump out the hole... but by doing this you run a higher risk of lifting the front wheel.
The shorter wheelbase (nearly a full inch) and taller ride height (an inch or so) make it even harder to keep the front end down. The ZX12R can make a decent rider look bad if he hasn't figured out how to ride it correctly.
One good thing is that the 12R makes up ground down the back half with it's peaky motor that holds peak power practically till the rev limiter... the ultra efficient ram air doesn't hurt at 140mph either.
I'll give the Busa credit when credit is due.... but being that it's such a single purpose oriented design.... the low, long, front heavy is a disadvantage in handling... that's where the ZX12R's sporty dimensions show their use.
PERFORMANCE BIKES magazine I believe did a test on the 2005 models and the ZX12R ran a lap time 7.5 seconds faster than the Hayabusa... also averaging 5mph faster around the road course. For anyone who does track days... you know even a couple seconds is a giant gap.... 7.5 seconds in one lap is homicide.
Anyhow... I'll say it again... I'm not trolling, just giving my view on the matter and supporting it with facts. You or anyone else is more than welcome to DEBATE my argument like adults. Hell, we only have to GAIN from sharing each other's views and discussing them. Right?
1300hemibusa
Registered
Sorry i didn't call you a clown ..I called you a butt lick...If you are going to Quote me get it right ....Now move on PH12 we have better things to talk about..
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