Chris Moore has the first gen 3 turbo.

[jellyrug]

Yeah, if that's the Brock video I was talking about...I've lost all respect for that guy.
Where he says, "this is to show all you guys at home how to install wheel bearings with basic hand tools".
He then proceeds to hammer out the old bearings, fine, I've hammered out many...and they went right into the trash.
But those were brand new, and should've been pulled out and shelved.
Regardless, he then hammers the new ones in with a socket.
I've Always used a press, or threaded rod and washers to draw them in when need be.
I had a threaded bearing puller set years ago, but it walked off somewhere.
A member here posted a link to where he bought a cheap puller set and did his new wheel bearings. Thanks to him I ordered one...$45 shipped.
Like the guy who pays $400 for wheel bearings can't swing $45 more, and if you aren't capable of using it, fine...find someone who can.
Anyone who runs a bike business should know that you Never hammer on a wheel bearing to install it, and if you hammer it out, it's junk.
So, from Brock's video, he is one of 2 things, an idiot, or wants you to screw up bearings and buy more.
Not sorry, it is what it is.
Don't post this bs and you won't get called out on it.
Shameful is what it is.

Other than totally agreeing with you, I will say no more. I have offended one too many about what all these "professional tuners" get up to and some of the results I had to remedy for friends. All one has to do is look at the Busa technical issues experienced and reported on this site and then figure out where it all started.

 

[sixpack577]

Other than totally agreeing with you, I will say no more. I have offended one too many about what all these "professional tuners" get up to and some of the results I had to remedy for friends. All one has to do is look at the Busa technical issues experienced and reported on this site and then figure out where it all started.

I will eat my crow sir...

 

[PeregrineKeith]

He, who shall not be named, would like to add that it was the rear wheel bearing that failed at such low mileage….. lol
I’m with you tho on everything else @sixpack577, it makes you wonder how that happened…. It could be faulty part from the beginning, poor installation or maybe its first 8 miles of life shouldn’t have been on a dyno?? I’m not qualified to say which caused the failure, but it wasn’t the first time done and CM$ has been building this exact recipe for a while now so how he missed it is beyond me. Things happen I guess.
Brocks on the other hand… I’ve not seen the video mentioned where they’re smacking a bearing in but know enough to know that ain’t right. In the end they came through and got it right but it still sucked to start out that way.
Now for Kountry… lol. He’s just a wild dude, you see him cutting exhaust off and ripping burnouts inside the building setting off fire alarms!! I think it’s just for show and number grabs or “likes” in this day and age. I think he does wrench some on his turbo bike and I hope to god he uses more sense than he shows on camera because that thing will get you in trouble quick!
Ok, rambling over…

 

[TonyM995]

Other than totally agreeing with you, I will say no more. I have offended one too many about what all these "professional tuners" get up to and some of the results I had to remedy for friends. All one has to do is look at the Busa technical issues experienced and reported on this site and then figure out where it all started.

This is why I’m doing all the work on my bike myself. I’m taking the time to learn from reputable sources and no it’s not free nor is it the fastest or easiest way to do things. But I want to do it and enjoy learning about tuning.

Plus I don’t trust any average/local shop. That started years ago when I paid to have my suspension “setup” for me. It was so horrible that I just had to learn how to tune suspension and do it myself. As soon as the guy was done he cracked a beer and “tuned” another guys suspension. Yikes.

 

[TonyM995]

Yeah, if that's the Brock video I was talking about...I've lost all respect for that guy.
Where he says, "this is to show all you guys at home how to install wheel bearings with basic hand tools".
He then proceeds to hammer out the old bearings, fine, I've hammered out many...and they went right into the trash.
But those were brand new, and should've been pulled out and shelved.
Regardless, he then hammers the new ones in with a socket.
I've Always used a press, or threaded rod and washers to draw them in when need be.
I had a threaded bearing puller set years ago, but it walked off somewhere.
A member here posted a link to where he bought a cheap puller set and did his new wheel bearings. Thanks to him I ordered one...$45 shipped.
Like the guy who pays $400 for wheel bearings can't swing $45 more, and if you aren't capable of using it, fine...find someone who can.
Anyone who runs a bike business should know that you Never hammer on a wheel bearing to install it, and if you hammer it out, it's junk.
So, from Brock's video, he is one of 2 things, an idiot, or wants you to screw up bearings and buy more.
Not sorry, it is what it is.
Don't post this bs and you won't get called out on it.
Shameful is what it is.

You’re mostly right and he is just trying to get more bearings sales with that video. They use a proper press when they install them for customers. I’m not comfortable with doing bearings so I wouldn’t do it that way. If someone is dumb enough to not make that decision and messes up, that’s on them. Not Brock. Him doing it the way he showed still made a fast bike and the wheels spinning after were better than stock.

The other complaint people have on him is the grinding off half the brake pads. He’s only doing that on a bike that he’s trying to race in super stock or post the fastest time on. He specifically said if you’re not trying to go as fast as possible- don’t do it! Yet people are dumb and hate on him for that.

Brock has demonstrated to me that he’s plenty capable of building a fast drag race bike and I trust that if I buy an exhaust from him it will out perform stock.

What Chris Moore did by claiming 600 hp is far worse than anything Brock has done by selling guys bearings who don’t need them.

This makes me think of the “simple hack” TTS posted about how to modify stock fuel injectors and he proceeded to modify them in a $3,500 Bridgeport hahaha.

Again why I prefer to be an educated customer and think through things myself. Guys like you willing to share their experience keeps increasing everyone’s knowledge. Not everyone is so kind.

 

[sixpack577]

You’re mostly right and he is just trying to get more bearings sales with that video. They use a proper press when they install them for customers. I’m not comfortable with doing bearings so I wouldn’t do it that way. If someone is dumb enough to not make that decision and messes up, that’s on them. Not Brock. Him doing it the way he showed still made a fast bike and the wheels spinning after were better than stock.

The other complaint people have on him is the grinding off half the brake pads. He’s only doing that on a bike that he’s trying to race in super stock or post the fastest time on. He specifically said if you’re not trying to go as fast as possible- don’t do it! Yet people are dumb and hate on him for that.

Brock has demonstrated to me that he’s plenty capable of building a fast drag race bike and I trust that if I buy an exhaust from him it will out perform stock.

What Chris Moore did by claiming 600 hp is far worse than anything Brock has done by selling guys bearings who don’t need them.

This makes me think of the “simple hack” TTS posted about how to modify stock fuel injectors and he proceeded to modify them in a $3,500 Bridgeport hahaha.

Again why I prefer to be an educated customer and think through things myself. Guys like you willing to share their experience keeps increasing everyone’s knowledge. Not everyone is so kind.

Still, hammering a bearing shortens it's life, even if it works after being beaten in.
And he shouldn't be telling people it's ok to do that.
Especially when the correct tools are cheap, and he has a platform to make people think that it's ok.
Again, respect lost for poor practice.
So he can tune an engine, great, but he needs to stop spreading misinformation on basic machining principles...you Never hammer a new bearing.

 

[SS4Luck]

This makes me think of the “simple hack” TTS posted about how to modify stock fuel injectors and he proceeded to modify them in a $3,500 Bridgeport hahaha.

The expensive and specialized tools needed for “quick simple hacks” are my favorite part of any YouTube video

 

[sixpack577]

Kind of like the 'beat the bearing in' video'.
For "the guy that only has a few basic hand tools".
Where Brock says that "you can use the old bearing to keep the spacer from knocking the bearing on the other side out...by just running the old bearing on your belt sander, to grind it down some, so it doesn't get stuck in the wheel".
So, the guy with only a few basic hand tools has a belt sander?? I hope he has vice grips to hold it.
And why not use another big socket instead of the old bearing?
Sad, in every way.

 

[prg]

Bad practice it undoubtedly was, but it's been a ruse for as long as there have been bearings in a wheel. Lest we forget all the stuff and services both those blokes provide. Wildly exaggerated hp claims though is a bit naughty. Unless he meant in theory.

 

[sportbikeryder]

Just curious for those that say a bike like this couldn't make 600hp, what part of the bike makes it not potentially capable of 600HP? Have any of the folks that say it couldn't make 600HP actually built a bike that makes 600HP or more?
Is it the "complaint" that the bike itself can't do it, or that it wasn't doing it in a video?


If it is because of a video, sorry to break it to many, but the intent of YouTube videos posted by anyone who is doing it as a "content generator" is to get clicks and to have people talking about their videos, which in turn generates more clicks. Seems like it did and continues to do just that.

 

[TonyM995]

Hi John, nobody said it couldn’t make 600 hp and we pretty much beat that to death.

Please share your thoughts on the turbo kit since you seem to have some experience with building turbo bikes. What do you think of the kit?

 

[TonyM995]

@01smokes you don’t want to chime in on what you think? Did you ever put an intercooler on your bike? I asked you in your thread and you never replied.

 

[sportbikeryder]

Hi John, nobody said it couldn’t make 600 hp and we pretty much beat that to death. Please share your thoughts on the turbo kit since you seem to have some experience with building turbo bikes. What do you think of the kit?

Looks like a nice setup. Probably more turbo than most any rider would need if they are street riding. big single TB verses the OEM ITB's likely makes no difference at all in power, but probably decreases drivability and response. Could likely keep the OEM ITB's, and go with a little smaller turbo, maybe a g25-660 or similar, and improve the midrange without sacrificing any useable top end power for most riders.
Not sure there is anything about the bike that is "GEN3" now, other than the body and part of the dash. It is essentially what could be done to a Gen2, with a different body kit. The other gen3 changes / features seem to be mostly eliminated.

 

[01smokes]

I like it, but it's gonna be expensive.

 

[sportbikeryder]

I built this setup a few years ago, single TB at the front, with 8X 1700cc injectors for my Prostreet bike. Saw no difference in HP with it verses oem gen1 throttlebodies. I have since modified the TB size to be smaller in hopes of giving he rider at least some throttle control as it was basically the same power from 70%-100%.

 

[smithabusa]

I built this setup a few years ago, single TB at the front, with 8X 1700cc injectors for my Prostreet bike. Saw no difference in HP with it verses oem gen1 throttlebodies. I have since modified the TB size to be smaller in hopes of giving he rider at least some throttle control as it was basically the same power from 70%-100%.

View attachment 1663437

That's ridiculous awesome to the 900th degree John

 

[TonyM995]

Looks like a nice setup. Probably more turbo than most any rider would need if they are street riding. big single TB verses the OEM ITB's likely makes no difference at all in power, but probably decreases drivability and response. Could likely keep the OEM ITB's, and go with a little smaller turbo, maybe a g25-660 or similar, and improve the midrange without sacrificing any useable top end power for most riders.
Not sure there is anything about the bike that is "GEN3" now, other than the body and part of the dash. It is essentially what could be done to a Gen2, with a different body kit. The other gen3 changes / features seem to be mostly eliminated.

Now we are talking!! Thanks for the input but also it makes what they have less appealing.

I was hoping for a kit with good response down low that can be turned up to 500 whp on race gas. I’ve been made to believe that a water to air intercooler was required for that.

Also I thought drag racers using methanol had $1,000 sheet metal plenums and a $3,000 fuel system. Compared to a $4,000 RCC ultra that can support 400 whp on pump gas.

With this kit the plenum could be $8,000 and then to run meth you’d still need $3,000+ for a supporting fuel system. On pump gas they made 309 whp so it will cost a boat load of money to go backwards in power on pump gas. Is my logic off here?

I’m putting a Fueltech ft600 on my bike so as you said, all of the Gen 3 stuff will be gone (including the dash) but I’d rather not spend $20k on a turbo kit that isn’t going to have any midrange power or control on top as you mentioned can happen when switching to a big single throttle body.

 

[sportbikeryder]

Now we are talking!! Thanks for the input but also it makes what they have less appealing.

I was hoping for a kit with good response down low that can be turned up to 500 whp on race gas. I’ve been made to believe that a water to air intercooler was required for that.

Also I thought drag racers using methanol had $1,000 sheet metal plenums and a $3,000 fuel system. Compared to a $4,000 RCC ultra that can support 400 whp on pump gas.

With this kit the plenum could be $8,000 and then to run meth you’d still need $3,000+ for a supporting fuel system. On pump gas they made 309 whp so it will cost a boat load of money to go backwards in power on pump gas. Is my logic off here?

I’m putting a Fueltech ft600 on my bike so as you said, all of the Gen 3 stuff will be gone (including the dash) but I’d rather not spend $20k on a turbo kit that isn’t going to have any midrange power or control on top as you mentioned can happen when switching to a big single throttle body.

This is a Prostreet (class) bike. If I were building the "same" bike without rules, it would have a larger turbo on it.

If you arent drag racing pretty seriously, or land speed racing, and you haven't had a big turbo bike before, you probably don't "need" 500hp anyway.

You can make over 500hp on c16 alone, but I personally wouldnt do it for anything but drag racing, and even then I'd use an ice Intercooler.

 

[sportbikeryder]

@TonyM995 , I'm not saying the big single TB wont have any response at all, I'm saying I don't see any reason to replace the stock TB's as they are already DBW / E-Throttle and ITB's work very well for a high revving 4 cyl (which is shy the oem's use them).

Also, if your goal is really over 500HP, I would 100% recommend using larger head studs in the engine. 500HP can be made with the 10mm, but it is a worthwhile additional cost to use 1/2" studs.

As for cost difference in making a "Race gas" system verses Methanol. the main difference is the cost of the pump. Methanol automatically removes the streetbike part, other than the ability to brag that you could ride it on the street. Pump options are basically a Protec pump or a mechanical pump. There are some other mechanical pumps, but they really aren't rated for high pressure and draw alot of current. Even the protec pump is borderline if only using 4 injectors and a higher base pressure is needed.

700HP+ on methanol can be made with 2200CC injectors, although they are at their limit. 2600CC are more suited with using only 4 injectors. More than 4 injectors are a better option if you were to make a multi-fuel setup or want any real drivability when trying to make huge hp.

Making outlandish HP on a bike is really just for bragging rights and unless the bike is raced, really has no place. You will very likely be completely happy with a 350HP bike, especially if you dont have prior extreme power turbocharged bike experience.

John

 

[TonyM995]

I can’t say thank you enough John! Thanks for your thoughts. I’m going to do some land speed racing and 1/4 racing. My original plan was the RCC 430 hp kit which is a 50 trim Garrett and asked him if he could build me a kit with a g25-550. He said maybe but didn’t seem interested- and still hasn’t released a Gen 3 kit. I figured his 500 hp kit would basically cost the same as the 430hp kit.

Seeing guys running 250+ mph in the mile with big power made me think I should just go big right away to save money from doing things a second time later.

I agree with you and feel big dyno numbers are worthless. I just like to go fast and race. I’ll keep the radiator and do some street riding so a mechanical pump wouldn’t work because it takes the place of the water pump. That’s what DME told me.

I’m definitely sticking with 8 injectors and am wiring them up this weekend.

Thanks again for the thoughts. I’m trying to avoid spending a bunch of money and still having a slow bike. I’ve seen a lot of roll races where the Busa takes forever to spool up and loses to an H2. I’d like to run 250+ in a standing mile and as fast as possible with a 2-6” swingarm and mtc clutch.

My local track has Sunoco fuels and I was thinking e85 but I’m tuning the bike myself so I can change it up as I want. You’ve made my day by offering meaningful thoughts and experience. Thanks.