EV vehicles

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I just read this......kind of funny considering the Canadian government just gave them 7 billion taxpayer dollars to build a battery plant and employ off-shore workers....

Stellantis Spending $6 Billion On New Gasoline Engines That Run On Ethanol​


But it's at this point being invested in the S American market. Which isn't pushing for EVs like Canada is. I think it's smart they take the free $ Canada is offering them. Why build a battery plant using your $ when you can build a risky investment using someone else's.
 
Yes, well I haven't commented on the AGW issue and don't want to, I began investigating that over a decade ago on pods like RadioEcoshock where the caster interviewed the leading scientific minds on the planet. Real scientists, not political scientists, the sort of men and women who would never be allowed in front of a camera lol. Anyway it became a totally devise issue, as one would expect from something so important, it even became a major division between the the American political parties, and many weather related websites I frequented closed down their subs on the issue or went off-line all together. On many the rules are specific, you are NOT to discuss it.

Now we just had one of the oddest summers here, daytime temps were not that high by historical measures but humidity was greater and overnight lows beat all records. It was quite uncomfortable though being a man who hedges his bets I had a lot of A/C installed here and a lot of solar. I also have a cool room downstairs with an old 'window-rattler' aircon unit and a 2kVA Honda to run it if I want. I never did Boy Scouts but I adhere to their motto. This business of global warming though was instrumental in masking the real issue with cars, oil depletion, or the peak of oil production. That was the topic in the 2000's and it had a lot of traction. it was the original push for solar wind and EV long before AGW went mainstream and it's still the major issue to my mind. Frack oil and all that crap was simply a smoke and mirrors game, never made a red cent for the companies and had little effect on the price of oil which had already collapsed after the great recession.

But oil depletion is still a real thing and conventional oil production globally is well down. Unconventional? When you look into Gas you discover that the "oil equivalents" that they count as oil mostly goes into making plastic bags because that's all it's good for. The actual oil is good for cars, not Diesel, but comes out at great cost, millions of tons of sand trucked in, and chemicals, and endless holes because they tap out quickly. If it was the bonanza they had promised gasoline would be cheap like in the 1990's and before. 2040 at current rates of consumption is what they predicted would be the point at which oil would be all gone! But of course we haven't stayed at those levels and as time passes our consumption will decline and people struggling to just put food on the table and pay their rent will turn in their keys. It's hard for us here to see this because we are all relatively wealthy but go talk to an average Sri Lanken and you'll get a better picture.


France offers citizens EUR 4,000 grants to switch from cars to bikes. The country aims to boost the numbers of its citizens using bicycles to get to work and move around to 9% by 2024. French transition

What's going on there? Fear of global warming? Simply put, when they buy oil abroad money flows out of the French economy, lotz of money. They clearly are finding it cheaper to give people thousands to stop burning it. It's the same reason I believe the Western Europeans were happy to see the energy flows from Russia curtailed. The politicians, not the people! Energy moves West but money must move East and their debt mired economies would have to give up buying it in the future anyway so why not start now and blame the austerity on the Russians rather than their own corrupt and inefficient economies.

That's how the world really works, the stuff people are fed on TV is just to keep them quiet and consuming. keep them quietly toiling in the factories and offices and investing their life savings into whatever the current bubble is being promoted. Of course if you've spent your life sitting in front of one, being told what to think at every level, how could you possible believe any of that. But some people are starting to wake up, and that's dangerous, for them, because they tend to think that having an awareness that they have been dumbed down all their lives, now somehow makes them smart...



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While I enjoy your inputs, I can respectfully disagree with some of it. The U.S. and Canada have huge deposits if Shale oil. Fracking is far from B/S or a waste of time. Fracking like everything else has a cost. It's not the cheapest way to get to the oil. I know a fracker. They broke even @ $30/brl. Anything less than $45 and they simply didn't work the deposit. And when the OPEC decide they want to cut off oil supplies, we can produce as much as we need easily then.

The benefit of fracking was exactly above. OPEC learned we can drop them if they try to put our balls in a vice and limit oil. Fracking insured a steady supply elsewhere can be had. We became energy exporters. People lose sight or don't understand the importance of that. And yes it's a political football here in America.
 
Hopefully not.....hopefully

I just read this......kind of funny considering the Canadian government just gave them 7 billion taxpayer dollars to build a battery plant and employ off-shore workers....

Stellantis Spending $6 Billion On New Gasoline Engines That Run On Ethanol​


Different market, South America, Asia. They seem to have slices of their Italian pie just about everywhere.
 
There was a time where gas rations were sparse. This too will change.
Petrol / Diesel was a game changer and a huge step forward over horses / bullocks and camels here. Yes, fuels were not originally easily available here but they were easily transportable and having them on sale wasn’t a huge drama.

EV’s do not offer anything like the advantage, quite the opposite to many folk here, and the infrastructure needed isn’t a quick cheap fix in comparison to ICE’s.

Australia isn’t the UK, US or EU. It’s very different, from the government to the buying public, to the logistics involved.
 
I'd say the power draw in the '70s was less-at least here....very few if anyone had A/C in their homes and lots of people heated with wood and much less electrical loads in their homes..... Now the average home has far more electrical load than in those days....add in home based power stations in the future and I honestly don't think the grid can support this.

A/C has certainly become more efficient with the switch to inverter technology, but like every innovation we seem to make, it fell to Jevon's paradox. The Jevons paradox states that the economical use of fuel results not in diminished consumption but in an overall increase.



JEVONS PARADOX.jpg
 
I just read that they have pinned the cause of the smokehouse creek wildfire on a splintered power pole owned by Xcel Energy, it fell and started the blaze. That killer wildfire in Maui Hawaii was also triggered by aging decrepit electrical infrastructure. And many others. The Grid is in an awful awful awful state of repair, and not only does that need to be corrected, it needs to expanded at least two fold, probably a lot more if they want to majorly transition to EV fleets of cars. What are the national plans for that? Ignore the problem.

Xcel Energy sued over Smokehouse fire
 
I just read that they have pinned the cause of the smokehouse creek wildfire on a splintered power pole owned by Xcel Energy, it fell and started the blaze. That killer wildfire in Maui Hawaii was also triggered by aging decrepit electrical infrastructure. And many others. The Grid is in an awful awful awful state of repair, and not only does that need to be corrected, it needs to expanded at least two fold, probably a lot more if they want to majorly transition to EV fleets of cars. What are the national plans for that? Ignore the problem.

Xcel Energy sued over Smokehouse fire
And the California wildfires were found to be poor management by PG&E. But since Trump stated this, it was quickly stifled.

I don't often get involved in local politics. But I went to a city council session to thank them for their utility maintenance programs. They keep a budget surplus for weather emergencies. They also make it law that the utilities be maintained to avoid outages during these events.

They keep the trees trimmed back from the lines. Most recently they came and cleaned out all the street water and utility sewage lines that get gunked up with crap over time. So we don't get any back ups. The next city over has floods pretty regularly in storms. Our last hurricane had some outages but it wasn't from tree branches hitting power lines. We did however have whole trees take out some lines. But we were back up and going in less than 2 days.

The point of all his is to say, fiscal responsibility matters. Maui utility was spending $$ on green technologies rather than utility maintenance.
 
The point of all his is to say, fiscal responsibility matters. Maui utility was spending $$ on green technologies rather than utility maintenance.

You obviously live in a wealthy state/region like us here, but a lot of municipalities overseas are underfunded and indebted I suspect.

Another looming problem for the EV future is the quality of the grid components. Here a state government cheaped out and bought Chinese steel to build transmission towers, they failed in a storm. Yes it was a big storm, but we have had many cyclones and never such a thing has happened. These towers used to be designed for hurricane force winds. I detest most chinese product, wouldn't touch their structural steel. It's a well known problem in the industry here.

Workers inspect damaged electricity transmission towers on the outskirts of Melbourne, Australia, Wednesday, Feb. 14, 2024
Winds of up to 157 kph (98 mph) toppled six electricity transmission towers on Tuesday and caused one of the highest number of power outages Victoria state had ever experienced <Criminal negligence>

ELECTRICITY TOWER COLLAPSE VICTORIA-s.jpg


Chinese steel
More on Chinese steel

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You obviously live in a wealthy state/region like us here, but a lot of municipalities overseas are underfunded and indebted I suspect.

Another looming problem for the EV future is the quality of the grid components. Here a state government cheaped out and bought Chinese steel to build transmission towers, they failed in a storm. Yes it was a big storm, but we have had many cyclones and never such a thing has happened. These towers used to be designed for hurricane force winds. I detest most chinese product, wouldn't touch their structural steel. It's a well known problem in the industry here.

Workers inspect damaged electricity transmission towers on the outskirts of Melbourne, Australia, Wednesday, Feb. 14, 2024
Winds of up to 157 kph (98 mph) toppled six electricity transmission towers on Tuesday and caused one of the highest number of power outages Victoria state had ever experienced <Criminal negligence>

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Chinese steel
More on Chinese steel

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Not a wealthy state at all. It has low taxes, a minimal social safety net, low cost of labor. But our local city leadership is making good choices.
 
Money is money....Stellantis got $6 billion clams from the Canadian taxpayer...it's pretty easy to move funds around..
The battery factory is being built, so you expect them to put the rest of their business on hold until that is done?

Latest fued is they are bringing in labour from South Korea instead of spending it on Canadian wages for the Windsor plant.
 
The battery factory is being built, so you expect them to put the rest of their business on hold until that is done?

Latest fued is they are bringing in labour from South Korea instead of spending it on Canadian wages for the Windsor plant.
I guess the point I was making was there is Canadian tax payer money being spent on a company whose sole purpose is to make money from the sale of products back to the taxpayers...

Maybe the timing of the announcement was just ill timed as the other headline announcing their receipt of $7 billion taxpayer monies was so recent....
 
I guess the point I was making was there is Canadian tax payer money being spent on a company whose sole purpose is to make money from the sale of products back to the taxpayers...

Maybe the timing of the announcement was just ill timed as the other headline announcing their receipt of $7 billion taxpayer monies was so recent....
At the end of the day, if you folks over there and us folks over here don’t start building more batteries, we will all be dependent on China and help them towards their goal of the dominant world power.

The only good thing coming from that would be no migrants at our borders over here. Everyone would want to live in China and we will have Canadians and Americans trying to illegally migrate into China for a better life.

^^^^
Sarcastic humor.

Securing jobs here and preventing a Chinese monopoly is a good thing though. China currently has approximately 52% of the battery market.
 
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At the end of the day, if you folks over there and us folks over here don’t start building more batteries, we will all be dependent on China and help them towards their goal of the dominant world power.
Securing jobs here and preventing a Chinese monopoly is a good thing though. China currently has approximately 52% of the battery market.

It's pretty hard to compete with slave labour, but if you listened to the economists for the last 30 years they were saying this was the way to go, our nations transitioning from agrarian, to industrial, then the service economies and finally now to financial economies. I never believed any of it, nor do I regard Economics as a science. They call it the dismal science, it's more political than scientific I believe. But that's who everyone has listened to over the last 40 years so no debates were allowed. Now the government claims we are going to revert? In the face of decades of economic theory telling otherwise? I have to wonder if it's not all election promises. I'll wait and see if all the promised factories get built. Governments promise many things and even allocate money, but it doesn't always turn out the way it was marketed.
 
It's pretty hard to compete with slave labour, but if you listened to the economists for the last 30 years they were saying this was the way to go, our nations transitioning from agrarian, to industrial, then the service economies and finally now to financial economies. I never believed any of it, nor do I regard Economics as a science. They call it the dismal science, it's more political than scientific I believe. But that's who everyone has listened to over the last 40 years so no debates were allowed. Now the government claims we are going to revert? In the face of decades of economic theory telling otherwise? I have to wonder if it's not all election promises. I'll wait and see if all the promised factories get built. Governments promise many things and even allocate money, but it doesn't always turn out the way it was marketed.
We could use India or Mexico easily if it was about cheap labor. China was chosen because the political shift was in place to make China our ally. They aren't now, nor have wanted to be our ally. And we now realized we sold our souls to them, in order to get better valuations for stock ticker valuations. So the world would pour money into our American equity markets.
 
We could use India or Mexico easily if it was about cheap labor. China was chosen because the political shift was in place to make China our ally. They aren't now, nor have wanted to be our ally. And we now realized we sold our souls to them, in order to get better valuations for stock ticker valuations. So the world would pour money into our American equity markets.

What can I say, you are 100% on the money. The one thing china had that made it so attractive, besides the cheap labor, was the huge market there with it's population supposedly getting wealthy. The International corps probably though they could control them, probably believed the Chinese when they spoke. Big mistake. But Mexico? who could control Mexico? It's a failed state basically. And India? They are only for india as far as I can tell, the British Raj did such a job on them I can't see them trusting any western power ever again. Anyway they are all in the BRICS now aside from Mexico.

Mexican president shuts down rumors of joining BRICS

Rumors of Mexico looking to join the bloc surfaced in early March when South African Foreign Minister Naledi Pandor said a number of emerging countries had expressed interest in joining BRICS, including Mexico.

Buy on the rumor, sell on the news.
 
I guess even we skeptics can stand to reason......fossil fuel is not finite, it will eventually be depleted....

When ships and aircraft burn millions of gallons of gallons a day and many countries burn millions of gallons to produce power, it can only last so long...

I can see why there is an interest and push towards another viable source of transportation.....even if it is EV....

We all know that alternatives such as changing how and where we live and commute will never be viable so some other means of moving humans around their space will need to be developed......
 
It's pretty hard to compete with slave labour, but if you listened to the economists for the last 30 years they were saying this was the way to go, our nations transitioning from agrarian, to industrial, then the service economies and finally now to financial economies. I never believed any of it, nor do I regard Economics as a science. They call it the dismal science, it's more political than scientific I believe. But that's who everyone has listened to over the last 40 years so no debates were allowed. Now the government claims we are going to revert? In the face of decades of economic theory telling otherwise? I have to wonder if it's not all election promises. I'll wait and see if all the promised factories get built. Governments promise many things and even allocate money, but it doesn't always turn out the way it was marketed.
I believe you folks have a debt to GDP ratio which is still below 30%. We exceeded 100% in 2013 here in the US, now heading to past 130%. China no longer needs our “service” economy, they have a system of intellectual property ownership for every American business within their borders, excluding only Tesla. When we look at global economies, the Dollar is still the world reserve currency, as it is the safest currency to invest in. The reason for that is simple, it is because of our military strength and a stable democracy. If we continue our path of increasing debt, importing rather than exporting, and allowing a migrant invasion of illegal immigrants, it is only a matter of time and the US will fall.
 
I guess even we skeptics can stand to reason......fossil fuel is not finite, it will eventually be depleted....

When ships and aircraft burn millions of gallons of gallons a day and many countries burn millions of gallons to produce power, it can only last so long...

I can see why there is an interest and push towards another viable source of transportation.....even if it is EV....

We all know that alternatives such as changing how and where we live and commute will never be viable so some other means of moving humans around their space will need to be developed......
What happens when we run out of Lithium?
 
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