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Recycle the batteries. It’s already happening but it’s resource intensive. Also looking at different chemistries to reduce dependency on lithium.
EV vehicles
- Thread starter Bumblebee
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TallTom
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Yes to everything you posted. Each variation added to the alternative, adds cost and timelines to the alternative.
Personally I think we need to move away from LIon batteries. Despite what some of the calculator jockeys want to say, they represent a fire risk that is undermining the confidence of the consumer and the insurance industry.
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I'd imagine the search to replace fossil fuels will be more encompassing than just Lithium....
Something will have to be sourced eventually...
TallTom
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We have enough untapped oil reserves to go a few hundred more years at least.
There are alternatives to Lithium.
Lithium has a weight advantage for EV’s, meaning for stationary applications Sodium Ion is a great alternative.
However, the world currently has a huge stockpile of Lithium. The oversupply has brought prices down by 70% compared to last year.
Lithium has a weight advantage for EV’s, meaning for stationary applications Sodium Ion is a great alternative.
However, the world currently has a huge stockpile of Lithium. The oversupply has brought prices down by 70% compared to last year.
Can't argue with any of that, it's exactly what I've been saying hey. I guess I'm just peeking into the future a little, extrapolating those trends you mentioned of Debt, immigration and imports to their logical end-point. If the US is able to turn those around I will be as happy as any because Australia's fortunes currently rely on US global dominance. The trouble is US politicians have been promising to turn those around for decades and little has been done. I have to base my future on the most likely outcome. Not on what I wish will happen, or what I think is Right for the world. That's where some take offense, they think I'm anti-US, Far from it. I just can't base my future on the machinations of people like Joe Biden and his son, and whoever else is pulling his strings so to speak.
I think that was just a bubble correction, See chart below.
When did the EV complex start to get into trouble? Did the price collapse due to declining demand? Many point to that.
Lithium price plunges on slowing Chinese demand for electric vehicles
I have just read an article suggesting China is about to flood the west with cheap EV it can't sell at home, $15k, 20K. If they do that they will destroy the other EV manufacturers just like they destroyed the solar panel manufacturers back in the 00's. I remember that vividly, Sharp panels at $600 per 80W panel were crushed out of existence along with the German ones.
All the Teslas sold in Canada are made in China.
Same here, including all the polestars and volvos sold.
"It’s the top-selling electric car in the country, but in early 2021 the Tesla Model 3 underwent its biggest change since going on sale in Australia in 2019. Instead of being sourced from the original Tesla factory in Fremont, California, the 2021 Model 3 was sent to Australia from the new Chinese Gigafactory in Shanghai. While the cars look identical to those still made in America, there is one key difference: the batteries.
Chinese Model 3s use lithium-iron phosphate (or lithium ferro phosphate/LFP) batteries instead of the previous lithium nickel cobalt aluminium oxide (NCA) batteries. “Nickel is our biggest concern for scaling lithium-ion cell production. That’s why we are shifting standard range cars to an iron cathode. Plenty of iron (and lithium)!” Musk Tweeted." Teslas made in China versus the USA
That will certainly solve the fire problem I would think.
"It’s the top-selling electric car in the country, but in early 2021 the Tesla Model 3 underwent its biggest change since going on sale in Australia in 2019. Instead of being sourced from the original Tesla factory in Fremont, California, the 2021 Model 3 was sent to Australia from the new Chinese Gigafactory in Shanghai. While the cars look identical to those still made in America, there is one key difference: the batteries.
Chinese Model 3s use lithium-iron phosphate (or lithium ferro phosphate/LFP) batteries instead of the previous lithium nickel cobalt aluminium oxide (NCA) batteries. “Nickel is our biggest concern for scaling lithium-ion cell production. That’s why we are shifting standard range cars to an iron cathode. Plenty of iron (and lithium)!” Musk Tweeted." Teslas made in China versus the USA
That will certainly solve the fire problem I would think.
TallTom
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It's about time they acknowledge and address this. The Tesla fanboys were unwilling to admit it was a problem. Fueled by their calculators and Elon on social media saying it was a non issue.
Getting the battery fires solved should help with a barrier that held some consumers back from buying. For EVs it's a step in a good direction.
Those batteries are made by CATL, in China, biggest battery manufacturer in the world. State side, Tesla makes their own batteries.
Musk is the only one producing in China without handing over intellectual property, to a Chinese based enterprise. He is competing in China against BYD, who has the EV market share there with Tesla second.
China has approximately 60% of the world EV market.
Not sure if you have ever been to, or have done business in China?
There is a massive class distinction, low morals but extremely high work ethic. From absolute poverty to wealth. A senior managerial position would be a person who dedicated his life to his career and job, that being the most important aspect of his life by a long shot. Nothing else counts. His life is his job. They are available 24/7 and will be at work seven days a week. That is what the West is competing against. As far as morals are concerned, if you are a visiting customer at a high management level, you will have a dedicated office girl at your disposal, who would manage your itinerary for you. Offering you “other services” is considered part of her job.
Well that's just their culture isn't it, going back thousands of years. I saw a video years back of a little girl, a toddler, being runover by a small truck in a market place. The driver did a Tiananmen square on her and reversed back over her a few more time before driving off, Apparently accidentally killing someone is no big deal but if they live and have injuries you are liable by law to provide for them for the rest of your life. The real eyeopener was all the other people in the market just walked around the child without a glance as she lay their twitching. Not the sort of clip you'd see on TV obviously, might offend your largest trading partner.
More on that point above I raised about cheap chinese EV flooding western markets.
www.cnbc.com
I think we all understand what this will mean for the native EV makers...
China could flood U.S. electric-vehicle market with its offerings, Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm warns
China could flood U.S. electric-vehicle market with its offerings, Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm warns
China is becoming a threat to the U.S. auto industry, amid declining U.S. vehicle exports.
They have a massive oversupply in china and need to dump them. Chinese sales have plummeted.I think we all understand what this will mean for the native EV makers...
TallTom
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And they build 6 times more coal fired powerplants than the rest of the world.More on that point above I raised about cheap chinese EV flooding western markets.
China could flood U.S. electric-vehicle market with its offerings, Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm warns
China could flood U.S. electric-vehicle market with its offerings, Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm warns
China is becoming a threat to the U.S. auto industry, amid declining U.S. vehicle exports.
They have a massive oversupply in china and need to dump them. Chinese sales have plummeted.
......and they go for quantity.......not quality.....
Pawning off their cast off EV to other markets will be catastrophic as there will be all kinds of issues with them and no solution to fix them....
TallTom
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Yeah well as long as people buy an EV to save the planet.
Well the Euro and American governments can't have it both ways, if they want to go 100% off gasoline by 2035 then this is the only way the masses will be able to afford it. Not that I'm saying that's even remotely possible, just saying it's their stated aim. Perhaps the chinese can burn the gasoline in power stations to keep making them. It will be cheap by then if no one is using it 
Pretty sure there’s several companies doing conversions; one of them, EV West has a 5 year waiting list. They convert a lot of older vintage and muscle cars. There’s an article here about a VW Bug. Very cool stuff. Here in the U.S., in the larger cities the infrastructure is firmly in place. Even here in Springfield MO, which I still consider podunk (compared to Los Angeles), there's plenty of charging stations and of course the owner's garages. Using EV for local commuting makes a lot of sense.
I think soon that big money will latch onto this and make it much larger scale.
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Sounds like a plan, unfortunately labor costs would be the killer. Unless your Rolls Royce your cars need to be made like cookies on an assembly line. To take random ice cars and retrofit them would be a nightmare, least wise if you wanted any range and needed to install a large battery.
There has been a lot of consolidation over the past decade in the ice industry and the stories I read lately point to it being in a lot of trouble. I think it's because the legacy automakers are still all geared up and building luxury type cars that made sense in the the last century when everyone was flush and energy was cheap. Not what the media brands as luxury, but what is in reality a luxury for the average struggling worker with a mortgage and a pocket full of overdrawn credit cards. Really, any car with air-conditioning, electric windows and all the accoutrements we consider normal now I would consider luxury compared to what a basic car might be.
It's interesting to think about how much energy we use, difficult to get a feel for it and the implications without a chart. I wonder what the chart will look like in 2050? The primary sources, the oil coal and gas are already topping out. All the rest is made from oil coal and gas
I would suggest that curve is going to top out and go back down in the decades ahead.
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