Ever get tired of Bust'in , whie others..

[cqt1414]

I've worked full time for over 20 years straight with the only breaks coming from earned vacation-time. I actually don't mind paying some taxes for the good of the community. I just want to see some accountability from the growing number of people having everything handed to them. I don't think that is asking too much!

 

[Got-Busa?]

Don't get me started on this BS...

 

[rubbersidedown]

Ummm, dunno about you, but I have an electricity bill that comes every month. I WISH it was included in my FEDERAL income tax.

I don't mind paying state taxes. I actually see most of the benefits that go along with those. Which are all the things you just described. Minus the electricity of course.

I don't wanna get into the federal reserve or the banking system and try to explain how it's completely screwing america, but I'm gonna mention it anyway. Google it to learn more. We've instituted the exact system in the US which mirrors the major reason we seceded from Britain.

Not positive,but the money you and I pay for electricty is for the amount of juice we actually use,no 2 households are the same.If you heat with electricity...you are a fool,its just not efficient.Tax dollars go towards pole maintenance,tree cutting(so we dont lose power in wind storms) setting up new lines to new homes,cutting power when drunks hit poles,hooking it back up,etc etc etc. Its like my water bill. 10 bucks a month is not enough to cover all the costs of delivering clean freash water to millions of homes.Make sense?

As for the way Wall Street,Da Gub'ment,and the banks have fugged over your country...I have no comment. The rich get richer,the poor get poorer.

We fug things up here in Canada too. We ship most of our raw lumber to other countries and then but it back as toothpicks and furniture.

There is no easy answer,but at least here on the Org we have started.We are confronting the issues and discussing them.

Here is where the problem is: Very few are willing to take it to the next step.
Nobody wants to spend their free time fighting what feels like an unfixable problem.

Here on the Org,a member can post up "I need you guys to visit this site and vote for my nephew in this photo contest." BAM. 50 hits to that site in 10 minutes.

A member might also say..."I need you guys to write to my congressman to have this law changed". 50 hits,nope. 20 hits,nope. 5 hit's,nadda.

Everyone including myself is so caught up in our own little world of daily living. Family,friends,motorcycles,day-to-existance all takes pressident over attempting political change.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck to all for this fiscal year.

RSD.

 

[S4L]

So far this has turned out to be a pretty good thread.

This kind of reminds me of Michael Moor(e)'s "Capitalism." I don't know if any of you have seen it, but it is a pretty interesting documentary. Now before all of the Conservatives get on their high horse - it is always good to try and see where the other side is coming from.

One of the points he brings up is the difference in lifestyle from ~ 50 years ago and today. It used to be, in America:

Dad worked, mom stayed at home and raised the kids.
Dad received a decent benefits/pension package including a decent amount of vacation.
Parents owned a decent sized home and owned a car.
No debt.

It seemed as if people of this time lived comfortably.

Nowadays:

-Mom and Dad both work, if they have kids, many seem to "struggle" financially. Even those that are "middle-class" and have what should be decent jobs.
-Healthcare is not a given, nor is it even that good. Retirement is largely privatized.
-Both have cars, probably with incurred debt.
-Speaking of debt, there is a lot of it.

What happened? In the span of ~ 50 years, America went from being able to sustain a family off of one income, to being lucky if you can live comfortably with two (again, no debt). Unfortunately this is a complex issue, which means there is no simple answer.

I am torn on the idea of welfare. I deal A LOT with medicare/medicaid and this has me largely hating the entire system. The people that need help, can't get it. The people that do not need help, are on it for life. Welfare breeds welfare. I can't help but come agree with President Cleveland when he vetoe'd the Texas Seed Bill:

"I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution, and I do not believe that the power and duty of the general government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit. A prevalent tendency to disregard the limited mission of this power and duty should, I think, be steadfastly resisted, to the end that the lesson should be constantly enforced that, though the people support the government, the government should not support the people.
The friendliness and charity of our countrymen can always be relied upon to relieve their fellow-citizens in misfortune. This has been repeatedly and quite lately demonstrated. Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthens the bonds of a common brotherhood.
Cleveland's Veto of the Texas Seed Bill
February 16, 1887[88]
"

- Wiki

Ironically enough - private citizens ended up supporting the farmers in Texas and raised MUCH more money than congress wanted to give. That is the way it should work.

 

[Schexy1]

I remember my mother talking about how a group she belonged to lobbied for years for free lunch programs in public schools. It wasn't until a certian Texan got on board that free lunch programs became a reality. I wonder if he had a gunuine concern for hungry kids, or if he did it for the huge contract he got supplying food to schools?

Any way, like it or not, government assistance is a huge part of our country. To bad we only complain about welfare and ingnore wealthfare.

 

[S4L]

Any way, like it or not, government assistance is a huge part of our country. To bad we only complain about welfare and ingnore wealthfare.

What exactly do you mean by this?

If you are saying, basically, capping profits by corporations (kind of like how Europe does it). Then I am also intrigued by this, but it raises problems as well.

If you regulate corporations, limiting how much profit they can keep - this requires more government. This creates a dichotomy because the government is absouletly horrible at efficiently regulating anything. IIRC I don't think there is one single thing the gov't does that is efficient or even profitable ( such as the difference between the USPS and UPS).

You also are effectively going towards a socialist/communist gov't - redistributing the wealth yadda yadda.

One could go union, but then you are adding someone else (a dreaded lawyer) to do your bidding, whether you really like it or not. In the end, it seems what unions do best is serve themselves, not the workers.

On a deeper level, Why the F.. do CEO's, chairmans, owners, etc NEED all that Effin' money? How many hundreds of millions does one need?

 

[rubbersidedown]

nuff said.

RSD.

 

[III]

I empathize with the OP as well. For me to sit here and say that those that are truly in need of dire assistance should be denied any sort of help seems rather self-serving and egotistical, and I'd be naive if I didn't think those situations truly existed, especially with the economic state of our country at the present. I wish it were as simple as eliminating anything to do with welfare, or handouts. It seems in line with a lot of things in society, in that there's always going to be those that circumvent the system. It happens in business, it happens in politics, it happens with friends, family,etc. I think having stipulations such as mandatory drug testing, etc. would do a great deal to weed out (bad pun) those that abuse the system.
But ultimately, as if it's it not already obvious with the type of person in question, they are going to do what they want to do and basically get what they want with as little effort as possible. With that in mind, I think the concept behind it is (from minds that are supposedly smarter on things like this than you or I), the best way to ensure what I have is to give those that have nothing as little as possible. Without that, they will begin to take what's your's (and I don't mean tax contributions) by whatever means they feel necessary.

Example, not giving a crackhead money doesn't stop them from using, it only makes them go take it from someone else. I'm not saying that continuing to give it to them is the right solution by any means...just that the problem still isn't solved, it just manifests itself in a different way. I don't have the answer, that's just sort of how I see this situation.

 

[Schexy1]

What exactly do you mean by this?

If you are saying, basically, capping profits by corporations (kind of like how Europe does it). Then I am also intrigued by this, but it raises problems as well.

If you regulate corporations, limiting how much profit they can keep - this requires more government. This creates a dichotomy because the government is absouletly horrible at efficiently regulating anything. IIRC I don't think there is one single thing the gov't does that is efficient or even profitable ( such as the difference between the USPS and UPS).

You also are effectively going towards a socialist/communist gov't - redistributing the wealth yadda yadda.

One could go union, but then you are adding someone else (a dreaded lawyer) to do your bidding, whether you really like it or not. In the end, it seems what unions do best is serve themselves, not the workers.

On a deeper level, Why the F.. do CEO's, chairmans, owners, etc NEED all that Effin' money? How many hundreds of millions does one need?

I mean our government gives out billions to businesses and individuals (not the poor) in the form of grants and subsidies that could be considered waste. Example: Paid yearly not to grow crops or herd animals, Micheal Jackson's Neverland Ranch; 80K, Scottie Pippen; 40K and thousands of other ranch/farm owners. University of New Mexico paid to search for ET's bones near Roswell, New Mexico. Another university paid to study the effects of stadium lights on insects.

Since we don't see these people or entities as dead beats we overlook the money that is given to them to waste.

 

[Big Bo]

The more you make the more you spend.
Don`t like it, make a change.

 

[nursebusa]

i can feel your pain my me and husband both work he is retried and still work and i hate when people freeload so i have to agree with (got-busa) dont get me started on that b.s.

 

[cqt1414]

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. :learn:

In this country we increasingly are giving out a lot of fish to people who have NO interest in learning how to fish. In fact, some at breeding age intentionally squeeze out an extra puppy or two in order to receive more free fish. Many have abandoned their homeland to come here solely to get FREE fish.

I'm tired of working everyday to supply the fish!

 

[afterhours]

I don't know who I am more angry with....

the people that take from the system, or those that are not willing to fix the system. This is the greatest country on earth, but many of us are simply too lazy to do what is needed to make change.

too many people will argue over religion, yet not get involved in politics. We send people to Washington to rpresent our best interest's, and when they don't we should replace them....but we don't we continue to blindly vote along party lines...ignoring poor performance or even criminal behaviour.

240 years ago, great men stood up to tyrrany, violence and a government that was robbing from its citizens. Those men would be ashamed of us today. This last election showed what average people can do....

so stop making excuses and get involved....

 

[scrappy]

We can ALL band together and refuse to pay our taxes...

That worked before right?

Thing is... it takes ALL of us.

Income tax isn't even really legal, but who's actually fighting it?

You are semi correct, i know where you are going with this.

"Income taxes"- what the government and the IRS (which is not constitutional, businesses can not create laws to tax citizens) have led you to believe that you must pay a tax on your wages. This is not true. Income is defined in the IRS books as money that is earned not through wages, at least this is what it said a few years ago. I talked to several people that no longer pay "income taxes on money they earn through wages, it takes about 5k (USD) and a good lawyer and you can fight yourself out of the greedy IRS hands. The IRS can not lawfully tax anyone. I have been saving some money for a good lawyer myself. Do some google searching you will find people to defend you " is income tax legal".
Have a read
We The People Features - Taxes - Showdown - WorldNetDailyArticle Is Income Tax Legal

Also

 

[moloko]

You are semi correct, i know where you are going with this.

"Income taxes"- what the government and the IRS (which is not constitutional, businesses can not create laws to tax citizens) have led you to believe that you must pay a tax on your wages. This is not true. Income is defined in the IRS books as money that is earned not through wages, at least this is what it said a few years ago. I talked to several people that no longer pay "income taxes on money they earn through wages, it takes about 5k (USD) and a good lawyer and you can fight yourself out of the greedy IRS hands. The IRS can not lawfully tax anyone. I have been saving some money for a good lawyer myself. Do some google searching you will find people to defend you " is income tax legal".
Have a read
We The People Features - Taxes - Showdown - WorldNetDailyArticle Is Income Tax Legal

Also

I know. And at the moment that is all should say on the matter...

 

[rockethead]

We can ALL band together and refuse to pay our taxes...

That worked before right?

Thing is... it takes ALL of us.

Income tax isn't even really legal, but who's actually fighting it?

im with ya on that one! it does take all of us to make a difference.

 

[rockethead]

obama and his entourage, including the weather underground (crazy radicals) want to turn our free country into a socialist state. I will fight for my freedom and hope others want to do the same

 

[S4L]

I would be careful finding a so called "good lawyer" to fight for your freedom from the IRS - they do go after you for felony tax evation and IF you lose (people HAVE lost this battle, it almost seems based on luck to win it) you are no longer able to bear arms, vote, lose your life to prison for a couple years... etc...

BTW, the battle is already lost. This country proved its socialism when we bailed out the banks, that is socialism, and that wasn't Obama.

It doesn't matter what political party you choose, the battle is lost.
America's golden age seems to be over.

 

[rockethead]

we all have our opinion, If you choose to believe it's over than I guess it is for you. I like my freedom and the liberties that come with. I do agree that any political party is only worried about the short run, their concern is for them, not us.

no more political rants for me lol

 

[rubbersidedown]

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. :learn:

In this country we increasingly are giving out a lot of fish to people who have NO interest in learning how to fish. In fact, some at breeding age intentionally squeeze out an extra puppy or two in order to receive more free fish. Many have abandoned their homeland to come here solely to get FREE fish.

I'm tired of working everyday to supply the fish!

This is awesome. I love all the references to fish.

RSD.