I'm sick to my stomach - Michael Vick

[bigfootatplay]

Lets just strip dog fighters (like Vick) down to their boxer shorts,COVER THEM WITH BACON FAT,throw them in a pit with 12 starving angry pitbulls,and see how they like it.

Rapists...a hot iron poker,placed you know where.

Car jacker...off with his hands.

Serial killer...hung one day..not till dead thou. Beaten the next. Starved for a week or so. Rinse&Repeat.

Busa thief. Dragged down yer local hi-way till he begs for mercy.Then salt for the open wounds.


Now that,ladies and gentlemen,is how you end crime.

RSD.

DOg fighting has been around for a few hundred years.. it was actually a sport like bull fighting, horse racing etc.. it wasnt until the drug dealers were into it that it became a problem... most of the times when they wanted a guy, cruelty to animals was the only charge they could throw on them. Then the tree huggers come running and its out of control now

what do you think happens to horses that cant race no more.. or show dogs that have pups of the wrong color??? ???????????? they KILL'EM

Hunting dogs that wont hunt????Kill"em and so on..... ???

 

[bigfootatplay]

Here is my final thought on the subject.

Although illegal, dog fighting is still very common in many parts of our country. Dog fighting is not as simple as putting two dogs in a ring as seeing what happens. Just like boxing, wrestling and MMA, they are trained to fight. Just like boxing, wrestling and MMA, better fighters rise to the top and weaker ones are discarded.

Unfortunately, training and fighting methods are not the same for dogs as for humans. They are brutal and usually to the death. Discarding a human fighter does not have the same meaning as discarding a fighting dog.

In an earlier post someone mentioned slavery. Slavery is a very good example to use to compare the dog fighting culture to. When slavery was abolished, how long was it before the culture of the south changed? How long ago was that everyone started veiwing blacks as equals? Those questions have four answers: Before, imediately, after the civil rights movement and never.

Another good comparison is rape. At one time forced sex was apart of every culture. Rape evolved from a brutal attack to not respecting a persons right to change their minds. Look at how long it took for that cultural evolutions. Even today there are still instances where people are questioned if they asked to be raped.

All of that is to say that dog fighting is a culture. Even though it is illegal, many don't see what is wrong with it. It took over a century for the southerners to convict a white person of murding a black person, decades for the first date rape conviction, why? becasue the attitude of a culture had to be changed.

Dog fighting, just like slavery and the poor treatment of women, making it illegal will not instantly change the beliefs or feeling of those deeply rooted in it. What Vick did was illegal, not sick or twisted. Illegal or not he did what he believed what he was doing was OK.

Hate what he did, but atleast try to understand why he did what he did. If you do that, you will see he is not sick and he does deserve to be back in society or atleast take my stance. I could careless what he is doing as long as it is not illegal!

 

[Vonderbach]

1. Punishment served (Please get over it)

The legal system does not speak for me. I think I'm entitled to voice my opinion, do you wish to gag me?

2. He Became an advocate for the change in culture of dog fighting

What other choice did he have? Seriously. Do you see any other possible alternative if he intended in playing again? I would do just about anything to regain my multi-million dollar contract.

4. By some of you guys logic, anyone that commits a crime should be exiled even after paying for it, wonder if it was yourself in a situation or a family member hmmm seems so easy to hate these days ???.

I would never abuse animals and if any of my relatives did, I would be on the witness stand on the side of the prosecution. You better believe it.

5. The only reason they talk about Vick is because he is who he is, I swear I did not see one post about the (S.C. dogfighting kingpin David Tant) being paroled google him. Were any of you this angry?

Tant didn't win a popularity contest for the most popular sporting event in the United States, did he? I'm not upset that he's free, I'm upset that so many of you people are complacent with his supposed "redemption!" As if someone with a defect can actually fix their brain. Abusing any living creature isn't what I would consider natural. He's broken, defective. What you see today is an act. He's apologizing for the fact that he got caught, not the fact that he thinks what he did was wrong. And yes, that's my opinion and I would say it to his face.

6. Hate it or not, Vick is the most exciting and difficult QB in the NFL for a Defense to face, and he is currently the best QB in the league, this will probably have him in the super bowl, sit back and enjoy this is why he is going to the pro bowl.

I think you just hit on the crux of the issue. OMG he's a great football player!!111111 Let's forgive him because he's so awesome!!!!!!! *sigh*

7. The man went from top of the world to the sewer and back to the top again, did his time, took his lumps, faced all his haters and doubters what more can you ask? How about this, only those who have never made any mistakes in their youth or adult life step up, i doubt their will be many

I doubt seriously that anyone here abused animals as a child. Unless we have any wannabe serial killers on the forums.

 

[S4L]

have you read the definition of sentient being or even understand where it comes from?

which one should i do? believe evolution and think that dogs were evolved just for out companionship? they had no existence before?

maybe you along with several others should think about why youre mad.

comparing a dog to a human doesnt wash, i cant drive granny down to the hospital and have her put down. i cant sell kids, even for profit at that. i cant legally make my kids go live outside. it can go on and on. if you want to differentiate animals based on cuteness and cuddleability have fun. this doesnt mean your an elevated being just means you can segragate groups you like and dont like on your own personal preference.

you all can have fun leading this argument down a path to nowhere and trying to inflict your morals on law, just be glad that isnt the case in america and we can have differences.

Where to begin.

What does cute and cuddly have to do with anything? Can you please point out what exactly it is you are referring to so that I can at least understand what specific point you are trying to make?

If you are trying to get at, why we treat different species differently. This is a very, very simple objective reason. Different species have different basic needs. Like species have like needs. A chicken does not have the same basic needs as a cow. A chicken does have similar basic needs as a turkey. A dog as similar basic needs as a human. A human does not have similar basic needs as a turkey. Make sense?

This is not segregation, this is not cruel. This is simply a fact of life.

I'm not going to get into the hunting thing. To even claim that there is a close parallel between hunting and torturing dogs is ludicrous however. We humans are omnivorous. This is a fact. We are not vegetarians. Evolution backs this claim up quite nicely. Killing an animal and torturing an animal are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Killing an animal for sport and killing an animal for food is different as well. Again, I'm not going to get into that, because I do not believe in killing for sport. Unfortunately many people do...

A dog is very much like a person, this does wash, just not with you. You, probably of no fault of your own, are egocentric and bigoted in your views. This makes sense, evolutionarily speaking - treating your species as the only species that counts. This is sad however, because this mentality is literally killing every other living thing on the Earth. This very way of thinking may be the direct cause of our demise, if nuclear weapons doesn't cause it first..

Let me also repeat, laws do not determine morality. I couldn't give a rats arse if pissing was illegal, that law would be immoral. I do not need a law book to tell me what is wrong and what is right. I am an adult and can make these choices logically. Laws are not based on morality, and morality does not always determine laws. At one point in time, slavery was not against the law, yet it is definitely immoral. Seemingly, self defense is becoming against the law, however, I definitely believe I have a right to defend myself.

If you are so inclined, chew on this:

Dog Intelligence on Par with Two-Year-Old Humans; Border Collies Smartest : Discovery News

Dogs Dumbed Down by Domestication : Discovery News

Dog Breeding by Humans is Changing Canine Brains : Discovery News

Hey, whaddya know, your wrong, we did actually evolutionarily change dogs, almost to the point where we cannot release them back into the wild. They have gone too far down the evolutionary path of domestication. Huh....

 

[bigfootatplay]

and Dog fighting was a misdemeaner until 2008.. thats when everybody got all sensitive.. put that effort into child molesters or rapists.. in the south **** fighting is pretty popular.. and its not a felony in every state.. people dont sympathize with a chicken.. thats why you dont see any save the chicken videos if they did.. Popeyes and Church's would be in trouble

 

[Vonderbach]

have you read the definition of sentient being or even understand where it comes from?

Are you suggesting that I would utilize a word that I am unfamilair with? Senitent, as in capable of feeling and emotion. Do you deny that a dog can feel emotional pain?

 

[bigfootatplay]

Where to begin.

What does cute and cuddly have to do with anything? Can you please point out what exactly it is you are referring to so that I can at least understand what specific point you are trying to make?

If you are trying to get at, why we treat different species differently. This is a very, very simple objective reason. Different species have different basic needs. Like species have like needs. A chicken does not have the same basic needs as a cow. A chicken does have similar basic needs as a turkey. A dog as similar basic needs as a human. A human does not have similar basic needs as a turkey. Make sense?

This is not segregation, this is not cruel. This is simply a fact of life.

I'm not going to get into the hunting thing. To even claim that there is a close parallel between hunting and torturing dogs is ludicrous however. We humans are omnivorous. This is a fact. We are not vegetarians. Evolution backs this claim up quite nicely. Killing an animal and torturing an animal are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Killing an animal for sport and killing an animal for food is different as well. Again, I'm not going to get into that, because I do not believe in killing for sport. Unfortunately many people do...

A dog is very much like a person, this does wash, just not with you. You, probably of no fault of your own, are egocentric and bigoted in your views. This makes sense, evolutionarily speaking - treating your species as the only species that counts. This is sad however, because this mentality is literally killing every other living thing on the Earth. This very way of thinking may be the direct cause of our demise, if nuclear weapons doesn't cause it first..

Let me also repeat, laws do not determine morality. I couldn't give a rats arse if pissing was illegal, that law would be immoral. I do not need a law book to tell me what is wrong and what is right. I am an adult and can make these choices logically. Laws are not based on morality, and morality does not always determine laws. At one point in time, slavery was not against the law, yet it is definitely immoral. Seemingly, self defense is becoming against the law, however, I definitely believe I have a right to defend myself.

If you are so inclined, chew on this:

Dog Intelligence on Par with Two-Year-Old Humans; Border Collies Smartest : Discovery News

Dogs Dumbed Down by Domestication : Discovery News

Dog Breeding by Humans is Changing Canine Brains : Discovery News

Hey, whaddya know, your wrong, we did actually evolutionarily change dogs, almost to the point where we cannot release them back into the wild. They have gone too far down the evolutionary path of domestication. Huh....

so hunters are not torturing animals I would love to see a yard of hunting dogs compared (physically/heath wise)to a yard of pitbulls.. hunting dogs are put threw more than you think

 

[Ezduzit]

1. Punishment served (please get over it)

2. He became an advocate for the change in culture of dog fighting

3. Severe punishment because of who he is.

4. By some of you guys logic, anyone that commits a crime should be exiled even after paying for it, wonder if it was yourself in a situation or a family member hmmm seems so easy to hate these days ???.

5. The only reason they talk about vick is because he is who he is, i swear i did not see one post about the (s.c. Dogfighting kingpin david tant) being paroled google him. Were any of you this angry? S.C. dogfighting kingpin is paroled despite outcry

6. Hate it or not, vick is the most exciting and difficult qb in the nfl for a defense to face, and he is currently the best qb in the league, this will probably have him in the super bowl, sit back and enjoy this is why he is going to the pro bowl.

7. The man went from top of the world to the sewer and back to the top again, did his time, took his lumps, faced all his haters and doubters what more can you ask? How about this, only those who have never made any mistakes in their youth or adult life step up, i doubt their will be many

 

[bigfootatplay]

He's mad because Vick skull drug his team

 

[m_ridgeway]

Are you suggesting that I would utilize a word that I am unfamilair with? Senitent, as in capable of feeling and emotion. Do you deny that a dog can feel emotional pain?

no, i would think you used it you would understand it. you come across as intelligent.

but are you saying every animal we dont take care of is not a sentient being? even the ones we do take care and eat anyways?

 

[rubbersidedown]

What's your punishment for speeders??

Get caught a few times,you get fines.After that,then you get a speed limiter installed by police mechanic with GPS.

RSD.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

I wish someone would take Vick out so this thread would die

 

[m_ridgeway]

you still dont get it. out of all your post, you do not say 1 word that has relevance to being sentient
there are wild packs of dogs, just because we bred certain dogs to need us, doesnt apply to the entire species.

Where to begin.

What does cute and cuddly have to do with anything? Can you please point out what exactly it is you are referring to so that I can at least understand what specific point you are trying to make?

If you are trying to get at, why we treat different species differently. This is a very, very simple objective reason. Different species have different basic needs. Like species have like needs. A chicken does not have the same basic needs as a cow. A chicken does have similar basic needs as a turkey. A dog as similar basic needs as a human. A human does not have similar basic needs as a turkey. Make sense?

This is not segregation, this is not cruel. This is simply a fact of life.

I'm not going to get into the hunting thing. To even claim that there is a close parallel between hunting and torturing dogs is ludicrous however. We humans are omnivorous. This is a fact. We are not vegetarians. Evolution backs this claim up quite nicely. Killing an animal and torturing an animal are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Killing an animal for sport and killing an animal for food is different as well. Again, I'm not going to get into that, because I do not believe in killing for sport. Unfortunately many people do...

A dog is very much like a person, this does wash, just not with you. You, probably of no fault of your own, are egocentric and bigoted in your views. This makes sense, evolutionarily speaking - treating your species as the only species that counts. This is sad however, because this mentality is literally killing every other living thing on the Earth. This very way of thinking may be the direct cause of our demise, if nuclear weapons doesn't cause it first..

Let me also repeat, laws do not determine morality. I couldn't give a rats arse if pissing was illegal, that law would be immoral. I do not need a law book to tell me what is wrong and what is right. I am an adult and can make these choices logically. Laws are not based on morality, and morality does not always determine laws. At one point in time, slavery was not against the law, yet it is definitely immoral. Seemingly, self defense is becoming against the law, however, I definitely believe I have a right to defend myself.

If you are so inclined, chew on this:

Dog Intelligence on Par with Two-Year-Old Humans; Border Collies Smartest : Discovery News

Dogs Dumbed Down by Domestication : Discovery News

Dog Breeding by Humans is Changing Canine Brains : Discovery News

Hey, whaddya know, your wrong, we did actually evolutionarily change dogs, almost to the point where we cannot release them back into the wild. They have gone too far down the evolutionary path of domestication. Huh....

 

[rubbersidedown]

I wish someone would take Vick out so this thread would die

I'D BE UP FOR THAT!

Let the thread die...lease:

RSD.

 

[S4L]

you still dont get it. out of all your post, you do not say 1 word that has relevance to being sentient
there are wild packs of dogs, just because we bred certain dogs to need us, doesnt apply to the entire species.

lol... Yes there are wild dogs, typically referred to as wolves. Try reading one of the above links..

Sentient - refer to Vonderbach's post above. Another definition is a conscious being. What argument are you trying to make, or point you are trying to prove? I am guessing you have no point.

I vote for letting this thread die as well.

 

[Vonderbach]

no, i would think you used it you would understand it. you come across as intelligent.

but are you saying every animal we dont take care of is not a sentient being? even the ones we do take care and eat anyways?

I never implied anything of the sort. I am simply saying that dogs are not disposable mindless hunks of meat.

 

[Vonderbach]

you still dont get it. out of all your post, you do not say 1 word that has relevance to being sentient
there are wild packs of dogs, just because we bred certain dogs to need us, doesnt apply to the entire species.

No offense, but I'm thinking that perhaps you are the one that doesn't understand the term "sentient." Sentient does not mean domesticated, it means a higher functioning brain capable of emotion and feeling. We see the sentience in our domesticated dogs because we have trained them to relate to us. You may not see it in bears or lions, but they most definitely have the same traits. Sentience is a matter of being self aware to an extent.

I vote as well, this is my last post.

 

[m_ridgeway]

you want to use the argument of a sentient being for why this is wrong, yet its ok to make other sentient beings suffer, that is what im saying. i understand domestication has 0 to do with being sentient. i dont believe s4l does, as my post, the one you qutoed was directed at. he is saying dogs basic needs are the cause of them being sentient. one has nothing to do with the other.


you still dont get it. out of all your post, you do not say 1 word that has relevance to being sentient


there are wild packs of dogs, just because we bred certain dogs to need us, doesnt apply to the entire species.



these were two points,

1 s4l everything you have typed does not have anything to do with being sentient.

2 domestic dogs have and are forming packs and surviving in the wild. there was a pack of wild dogs some bully breeds some not, killing large farm animals. even as large as bison. they are dogs that are neglected and abadoned, once owned and cared for by people then turned into the wild by irresponsible people. have you ever read how domestic dogs came to be? or why certain breeds exist?

letting your thread die is what my whole point at the beginning is. there is no passion outside of hatred and jealousy for vick. just as other members here have posted. his celebrity status got him not his crimes unwanted attention. most likely without that, very few members of this board would know about his crimes, and most likely he would not have spent any time in prison unless there is a mandatory min like ok has. i dont know the laws in va ( i believe where this was commited) nor do i care. we can have opinions, thats whats great about places like this where these things can be talked about, but the other side of the coin is that people can disagree with you. if you choose to not understand, listen, or think about animal treatment outside of the popular ones, it cheapens your opinion, imho. you cant expect huge leaps and bounds to be made towards your morality toward a specific animal, then not care about the others and be taken seriously.

as i said way earlier in this thread, the events americans pick to be outraged over are comical.

 

[Wayneovich]

The man did his time, what more can you ask of him. Yeah what he did was wrong but big deal The authorities probably ended up euthanizing all the animals anyway. Its funny how in America you can deep fry a newborn child and no body cares but if you microwaved an animal people would call for the death sentence.

 

[GsxrBots]

Funny how people just jump in here and try to cut others opinions down all while OBVIOUSLY not reading the whole thread... Sorry, I know I said I left days ago. I'll go back to lurking now and the the buddhism commence....

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