I'm sick to my stomach - Michael Vick

[Schexy1]

Here is my final thought on the subject.

Although illegal, dog fighting is still very common in many parts of our country. Dog fighting is not as simple as putting two dogs in a ring as seeing what happens. Just like boxing, wrestling and MMA, they are trained to fight. Just like boxing, wrestling and MMA, better fighters rise to the top and weaker ones are discarded.

Unfortunately, training and fighting methods are not the same for dogs as for humans. They are brutal and usually to the death. Discarding a human fighter does not have the same meaning as discarding a fighting dog.

In an earlier post someone mentioned slavery. Slavery is a very good example to use to compare the dog fighting culture to. When slavery was abolished, how long was it before the culture of the south changed? How long ago was that everyone started veiwing blacks as equals? Those questions have four answers: Before, imediately, after the civil rights movement and never.

Another good comparison is rape. At one time forced sex was apart of every culture. Rape evolved from a brutal attack to not respecting a persons right to change their minds. Look at how long it took for that cultural evolutions. Even today there are still instances where people are questioned if they asked to be raped.

All of that is to say that dog fighting is a culture. Even though it is illegal, many don't see what is wrong with it. It took over a century for the southerners to convict a white person of murding a black person, decades for the first date rape conviction, why? becasue the attitude of a culture had to be changed.

Dog fighting, just like slavery and the poor treatment of women, making it illegal will not instantly change the beliefs or feeling of those deeply rooted in it. What Vick did was illegal, not sick or twisted. Illegal or not he did what he believed what he was doing was OK.

Hate what he did, but atleast try to understand why he did what he did. If you do that, you will see he is not sick and he does deserve to be back in society or atleast take my stance. I could careless what he is doing as long as it is not illegal!

 

[flynlow]

Here is my final thought on the subject.

Although illegal, dog fighting is still very common in many parts of our country. Dog fighting is not as simple as putting two dogs in a ring as seeing what happens. Just like boxing, wrestling and MMA, they are trained to fight. Just like boxing, wrestling and MMA, better fighters rise to the top and weaker ones are discarded.

Unfortunately, training and fighting methods are not the same for dogs as for humans. They are brutal and usually to the death. Discarding a human fighter does not have the same meaning as discarding a fighting dog.

In an earlier post someone mentioned slavery. Slavery is a very good example to use to compare the dog fighting culture to. When slavery was abolished, how long was it before the culture of the south changed? How long ago was that everyone started veiwing blacks as equals? Those questions have four answers: Before, imediately, after the civil rights movement and never.

Another good comparison is rape. At one time forced sex was apart of every culture. Rape evolved from a brutal attack to not respecting a persons right to change their minds. Look at how long it took for that cultural evolutions. Even today there are still instances where people are questioned if they asked to be raped.

All of that is to say that dog fighting is a culture. Even though it is illegal, many don't see what is wrong with it. It took over a century for the southerners to convict a white person of murding a black person, decades for the first date rape conviction, why? becasue the attitude of a culture had to be changed.

Dog fighting, just like slavery and the poor treatment of women, making it illegal will not instantly change the beliefs or feeling of those deeply rooted in it. What Vick did was illegal, not sick or twisted. Illegal or not he did what he believed what he was doing was OK.

Hate what he did, but atleast try to understand why he did what he did. If you do that, you will see he is not sick and he does deserve to be back in society or atleast take my stance. I could careless what he is doing as long as it is not illegal!

Very well put, but your going back to a time before he was born. Possibly before even his parents.

 

[Schexy1]

Very well put, but your going back to a time before he was born. Possibly before even his parents.

Actually not. Dog fighting became illegal in all states in the US within the last 30 or so years. Remember, everytime something becomes illegal, we don't always hear about it. Especially 30 years ago. As of 2008 it was not a felony in all states. Most agencies were more concerned with the gambling aspect of dog fighting rather than the treatment of animals. So owners, breeders and trainers were often overlooked in lieu of large scale organizers.

If you are talking about slavery (treatment of races) and rape (treatment of women), some people in this country still don't understand the concept of a man being able to rape his wife. Spousal abuse is still accepted by some groups in this contry. Believe it or not, some high schools in the south still have two proms. One black and one white. Do we even need to discuss the term, "The south will rise again"? The people who support or follow those beliefs are ignorant not sick. The only thing that will fix these issues is better parenting!

 

[VIPER]

Actually not. Dog fighting became illegal in all states in the US within the last 30 or so years. Remember, everytime something becomes illegal, we don't always hear about it. Especially 30 years ago. As of 2008 it was not a felony in all states. Most agencies were more concerned with the gambling aspect of dog fighting rather than the treatment of animals. So owners, breeders and trainers were often overlooked in lieu of large scale organizers.

If you are talking about slavery (treatment of races) and rape (treatment of women), some people in this country still don't understand the concept of a man being able to rape his wife. Spousal abuse is still accepted by some groups in this contry. Believe it or not, some high schools in the south still have two proms. One black and one white. Do we even need to discuss the term, "The south will rise again"? The people who support or follow those beliefs are ignorant not sick. The only thing that will fix these issues is better parenting!

You are incorrect good sir. Dog fighting has been illegal in the united states since the 1960s. Almost 50 years ago. It has been changed to a felony in all states in 2007/2008. It was started in the states in the colonial era and even then was frowned apon. It has been increasingly unpopular as time went on except for by those poor inhuman people who have nothing better to do with there time like work a real job. Fights are frequented by gambling addicts as well as trouble makers, criminals etc. I think if you were to ask the common decent folk of the country what they think of it you would find it isnt accepted at all and is really inhumane.

bottom line....vic screwed up got off cause he was rich and that is all there is to it period. If one of use common folk had done what he did we would be in a federal prison rotting for the next 10-20 years. We all know this is the facts. Then once we got out of prison we would have a felony attached to our name and we would never find a job doing anything of value cause no one would hire us. Poor little viccie gets his job back as if nothing happened making millions and carries on with life. Bottom line money will get you anything you want and out of anything you dont want..period.

 

[Snakeeyes]

dude vic didnt get off, he served 19 months in Leavenworth Penitentiary and 3 years probation. maxium term for the crime is 5 years.

 

[Schexy1]

You are incorrect good sir. Dog fighting has been illegal in the united states since the 1960s. Almost 50 years ago. It has been changed to a felony in all states in 2007/2008. It was started in the states in the colonial era and even then was frowned apon. It has been increasingly unpopular as time went on except for by those poor inhuman people who have nothing better to do with there time like work a real job. Fights are frequented by gambling addicts as well as trouble makers, criminals etc. I think if you were to ask the common decent folk of the country what they think of it you would find it isnt accepted at all and is really inhumane.

bottom line....vic screwed up got off cause he was rich and that is all there is to it period. If one of use common folk had done what he did we would be in a federal prison rotting for the next 10-20 years. We all know this is the facts. Then once we got out of prison we would have a felony attached to our name and we would never find a job doing anything of value cause no one would hire us. Poor little viccie gets his job back as if nothing happened making millions and carries on with life. Bottom line money will get you anything you want and out of anything you dont want..period.

Check your sources, it was not illegal in all states in the 60's, in 2008 it was a felony in only 48 states. We can go on about this forever, but the fact is, illegal or not, it is a cultural issue. Anything or anyone that is considered property will be treated like property.

Bottom line is we need to live in reality regardless of how we feel about a subject. Because I have never tried any illegal drugs or taken prescription medication that was not mine, I could feel like anyone who ever sold, smoked or illegally tried a controlled substance is scum and doesn't deserve to be a part of society and should be killed or in prison for life. Is that a realistic view of a person who tried weed 1 time 30 years ago? Do you know someone who tried weed, or still does it and is a positive part of society? My extreme belief says they don't deserve to be a part of our society. Is that a rational belief?

 

[bigfootatplay]

I do agree that what he did was sickening.....However, he did his time. He did the time that was given to him. I'm a dog owner and have a soft spot for dogs, but he admitted his mistakes, went to jail, and is still paying fines for what he did.

Child abuse and animal abuse are on 2 totally different levels of wrong.

With that said, he is, hands-down, playing the best football at the QB position in the NFL right now.

You're going to compare him to OJ? Really? OJ has had multiple offenses that he's skated on and he finally got caught with over-whelming evidence on the last one.

I agree totally.. whats the difference in killing dogs and shooting deer????? If thats the case every person that shoots deer with a high powered rifle is a serial killer right??? People spend way more time than they should dissecting other peoples lives... None of us are perfect. When we can admit that we wont be so judgemental

 

[Snakeeyes]

what kind of extreme belief are you tripping on?

 

[bigfootatplay]

what kind of extreme belief are you tripping on?

Who me??

 

[Vonderbach]

I agree totally.. whats the difference in killing dogs and shooting deer????? If thats the case every person that shoots deer with a high powered rifle is a serial killer right??? People spend way more time than they should dissecting other peoples lives... None of us are perfect. When we can admit that we wont be so judgemental

This is about abuse, not killing. Had you read the thread, you would know this.

 

[bigfootatplay]

This is about abuse, not killing. Had you read the thread, you would know this.

all the same...its an animal. Thats the point I was trying to make. It was his animals. I have a house dog.. a pitbull as a matter of fact. I would choke a person behind my dog. But in the end he is just a dog. A dogs life is not as important as a persons... the dude didnt harm a single a human being..

 

[Lalo86]

They dont give u 5 years for dog fighting...its more like a fine and probation...like i said, only reason vick got any jail time was because of his celebrity and they wanted to make an example out of him

 

[Vonderbach]

all the same...its an animal. Thats the point I was trying to make. It was his animals. I have a house dog.. a pitbull as a matter of fact. I would choke a person behind my dog. But in the end he is just a dog. A dogs life is not as important as a persons... the dude didnt harm a single a human being..

If he had harmed human beings we wouldn't be having this conversation. I don't know what world you people live in where it's acceptable to abuse animals. It just baffles me to no end. I'm not sure why everyone feels it necessary to qualify the worth or value of a dog. If it's a sentient being (which dogs are,) we should not be choking and beating them to death. Where do you draw the line? Dolphins are considered some of the most brilliant in the animal kingdom, perhaps even rivaling the human brain. Would you permit the killing of dolphins? Don't you think it's a tad bit egotistic to assume that human life is the only life worth caring about?

 

[m_ridgeway]

what makes a dog a sentient being over other animals?

 

[S4L]

If he had harmed human beings we wouldn't be having this conversation. I don't know what world you people live in where it's acceptable to abuse animals. It just baffles me to no end. I'm not sure why everyone feels it necessary to qualify the worth or value of a dog. If it's a sentient being (which dogs are,) we should not be choking and beating them to death. Where do you draw the line? Dolphins are considered some of the most brilliant in the animal kingdom, perhaps even rivaling the human brain. Would you permit the killing of dolphins? Don't you think it's a tad bit egotistic to assume that human life is the only life worth caring about?

+1 Vonderbach. Spot on man..

what makes a dog a sentient being over other animals?

I'm a little mad I would have to explain this to an adult. Seriously, take a Biology 111 class and buy a GOOD book on evolution. Hell, just reread my post, different animals have different basic needs related to the structure and evolution of their brain. That is just the tip of an iceberg..

 

[rubbersidedown]

Lets just strip dog fighters (like Vick) down to their boxer shorts,COVER THEM WITH BACON FAT,throw them in a pit with 12 starving angry pitbulls,and see how they like it.

Rapists...a hot iron poker,placed you know where.

Car jacker...off with his hands.

Serial killer...hung one day..not till dead thou. Beaten the next. Starved for a week or so. Rinse&Repeat.

Busa thief. Dragged down yer local hi-way till he begs for mercy.Then salt for the open wounds.


Now that,ladies and gentlemen,is how you end crime.

RSD.

 

[S4L]

Lets just strip dog fighters (like Vick) down to their boxer shorts,COVER THEM WITH BACON FAT,throw them in a pit with 12 starving angry pitbulls,and see how they like it.

Rapists...a hot iron poker,placed you know where.

Car jacker...off with his hands.

Serial killer...hung one day..not till dead thou. Beaten the next. Starved for a week or so. Rinse&Repeat.

Busa thief. Dragged down yer local hi-way till he begs for mercy.Then salt for the open wounds.


Now that,ladies and gentlemen,is how you end crime.

RSD.

What's your punishment for speeders??

 

[m_ridgeway]

+1 Vonderbach. Spot on man..



I'm a little mad I would have to explain this to an adult. Seriously, take a Biology 111 class and buy a GOOD book on evolution. Hell, just reread my post, different animals have different basic needs related to the structure and evolution of their brain. That is just the tip of an iceberg..

have you read the definition of sentient being or even understand where it comes from?

which one should i do? believe evolution and think that dogs were evolved just for out companionship? they had no existence before?

maybe you along with several others should think about why youre mad.

comparing a dog to a human doesnt wash, i cant drive granny down to the hospital and have her put down. i cant sell kids, even for profit at that. i cant legally make my kids go live outside. it can go on and on. if you want to differentiate animals based on cuteness and cuddleability have fun. this doesnt mean your an elevated being just means you can segragate groups you like and dont like on your own personal preference.

you all can have fun leading this argument down a path to nowhere and trying to inflict your morals on law, just be glad that isnt the case in america and we can have differences.

 

[Snakeeyes]

They dont give u 5 years for dog fighting...its more like a fine and probation...like i said, only reason vick got any jail time was because of his celebrity and they wanted to make an example out of him

let me rephrase , in 07 a new law was signed for Dog fighters, maximum penalties of a $250,000 fine and three-year imprisonment. (Animal Fighting Prohibition Enforcement Act )

 

[SLO MO]

1. Punishment served (Please get over it)

2. He Became an advocate for the change in culture of dog fighting

3. Severe punishment because of who he is.

4. By some of you guys logic, anyone that commits a crime should be exiled even after paying for it, wonder if it was yourself in a situation or a family member hmmm seems so easy to hate these days ???.

5. The only reason they talk about Vick is because he is who he is, I swear I did not see one post about the (S.C. dogfighting kingpin David Tant) being paroled google him. Were any of you this angry? http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/pets/article_8a224414-bc94-11df-8371-00127992bc8b.html

6. Hate it or not, Vick is the most exciting and difficult QB in the NFL for a Defense to face, and he is currently the best QB in the league, this will probably have him in the super bowl, sit back and enjoy this is why he is going to the pro bowl.

7. The man went from top of the world to the sewer and back to the top again, did his time, took his lumps, faced all his haters and doubters what more can you ask? How about this, only those who have never made any mistakes in their youth or adult life step up, i doubt their will be many