Russia and Ukraine

[Blanca BusaLess]

Yep. The irony of war. Putin can keep pounding Ukraine into dust. Until Ukraine runs dry. Meanwhile the U.S. is running short of ammo. And Canada gets bypassed.

We should have NEVER abandoned Ukraine. We cut a deal to de nuke them. And then as usual......walked away.

Well actually it was part of the deal. Turn over your nukes and we will protect you should Russia ever invade. They did and they did and now we are. I just don’t agree with it. I’m not so sure it would be WWIII if Putin takes ukraine. He took Chechnya nothing happened. Same thing in Georgia. Nada. Let him have Ukraine. At least then Hunter would be out of a job. Bahahahaha

 

[TallTom]

Well actually it was part of the deal. Turn over your nukes and we will protect you should Russia ever invade. They did and they did and now we are. I just don’t agree with it. I’m not so sure it would be WWIII if Putin takes ukraine. He took Chechnya nothing happened. Same thing in Georgia. Nada. Let him have Ukraine. At least then Hunter would be out of a job. Bahahahaha

I'm well aware of the deal. I was part of that whole transitioning time. Yes Ukraine from day one was worried that losing nuclear capabilities left them ripe for trouble with Russia. Noone else. Explicitly Russia. We assured them that we would protect them.

And we walked away from that by instead pumping money into them to "re-construct" themselves. We made a few people very rich and we also got a lot of Russian Intel from it. So we decided that was "protection".

But they were easily corrupted. The leaders alliances would shift based on who could make them personally richer. We let things slide. As usual.

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

It's the rock and hard place analogy....

In one hand do nothing and eventually Ukraine will become a Russian state, continue with the path we are on and face WW3.....

In my opinion, the west is committed to supporting Ukraine and will continue to do so regardless of cost......so far the majority of citizens agree with supporting Ukraine.

On the other hand, Ukraine's military are like drunken sailors with a free credit card, they are quick to commit equipment and arms in fights that are extremely risky to win because they know there are boatloads of equipment and arms arriving each and every day to replace what they squandered.

The thing to remember is Russia won't back down so the west is in it for the long run.

Canada is buying weapon systems for Ukraine that we don't even have in our military (and should). Troops have been screaming for these systems for years only to see them go to Ukraine.

Where do you get this?

“On the other hand, Ukraine's military are like drunken sailors with a free credit card, they are quick to commit equipment and arms in fights that are extremely risky to win because they know there are boatloads of equipment and arms arriving each and every day to replace what they squandered.”

 

[Bumblebee]

Where do you get this?

“On the other hand, Ukraine's military are like drunken sailors with a free credit card, they are quick to commit equipment and arms in fights that are extremely risky to win because they know there are boatloads of equipment and arms arriving each and every day to replace what they squandered.”

Inside intel.....

 

[mokaw]

Here's some more intel:
Part of the first billion dollars that the US sent to Zelensky and Ukraine was funneled back to the United States, which is called money laundering.
Here's how it was shared:
Joe Biden got $92 million
Mitch McConnell - 89 million
Nancy Pelosi - 86 million
Chuck Schumer - 66 million
Mitt Romney - 71 million
Adam Schiff - 62 million
Dan Crenshaw - 20 million
Lindsey Graham - 82 million
Liz Cheney - 77 million
Kevin McCarthy - 42 million
Mike Pence - 61 million
Rick Scott - 63 million
Ilhan Omar - 33 million
Elizabeth Warren - 42 million

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Here's some more intel:
Part of the first billion dollars that the US sent to Zelensky and Ukraine was funneled back to the United States, which is called money laundering.
Here's how it was shared:
Joe Biden got $92 million
Mitch McConnell - 89 million
Nancy Pelosi - 86 million
Chuck Schumer - 66 million
Mitt Romney - 71 million
Adam Schiff - 62 million
Dan Crenshaw - 20 million
Lindsey Graham - 82 million
Liz Cheney - 77 million
Kevin McCarthy - 42 million
Mike Pence - 61 million
Rick Scott - 63 million
Ilhan Omar - 33 million
Elizabeth Warren - 42 million

Care to cite this with links or proof?

 

[mark3evo]

It’s time to cut a deal
Putin is in this for the long haul , he is waiting for a change in US strategy following Trump re election.

I don’t agree with forever wars.

You have to look further back before 2022 to see how this meat grinder started, Go back to 2014 when the west overthrew (behind the scenes ) the democratic elected Russia leaning president

This is where it all went south - In went Putin to the Donbas and Crimea

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

I know I got a few bucks in the deal.

 

[TallTom]

It’s time to cut a deal
Putin is in this for the long haul , he is waiting for a change in US strategy following Trump re election.

I don’t agree with forever wars.

You have to look further back before 2022 to see how this meat grinder started, Go back to 2014 when the west overthrew (behind the scenes ) the democratic elected Russia leaning president

This is where it all went south - In went Putin to the Donbas and Crimea

I disagree. I think we need to take off the gloves and unleash more pain on them. It's clear Russia is a lot more frayed than we knew. Ukraine has taken out 85% of the assigned military they put into this war. Bring in some airpower and some tech bombs and start bringing pain to their cities and populations. I'm tired of pouring billions of dollars into a hole of "measured" responses, and not getting crap for it.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

I disagree. I think we need to take off the gloves and unleash more pain on them. It's clear Russia is a lot more frayed than we knew. Ukraine has taken out 85% of the assigned military they put into this war. Bring in some airpower and some tech bombs and start bringing pain to their cities and populations. I'm tired of pouring billions of dollars into a hole of "measured" responses, and not getting crap for it.

Then what happens when he rockets a NATO country who gave him all this stuff?

 

[TallTom]

Then what happens when he rockets a NATO country who gave him all this stuff?

Then we got hit them harder. And sell a lot of missle defense systems to NATO countries. Or better yet, teach them how to manufacture them so they can make them for their region and not rely on ours.

If you let Ukraine fall, Belarus will get cocky and conduct "exercises" into a poorly defended neighbor.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Then we got hit them harder. And sell a lot of missle defense systems to NATO countries. Or better yet, teach them how to manufacture them so they can make them for their region and not rely on ours.

If you let Ukraine fall, Belarus will get cocky and conduct "exercises" into a poorly defended neighbor.

IF IF IF no insult to you but I’m tired of it.
We hit Russia harder it will certainly just continue to climb the stairs of escalation. It ends when all of us do? It stays conventional then millions would die on both sides. I’m done sending billions overseas to any and all countries while we bury ourselves in debt and depression.

 

[TallTom]

IF IF IF no insult to you but I’m tired of it.
We hit Russia harder it will certainly just continue to climb the stairs of escalation. It ends when all of us do? It stays conventional then millions would die on both sides. I’m done sending billions overseas to any and all countries while we bury ourselves in debt and depression.

You're entitled to your opinion.

Mine is I'm tired of us playing patty cakes in all the military actions. Level a couple of Russian cities. Using Ukraine of course to do it. It looks good for Ukraine and it brings Russia to the table. They didn't nuke us when we funded the Afghans to wage a war on them. Why drag it out for 20 years. If we are gonna print $$ we don't have to fund Ukraine, we may as well make it a big stick. I'm tired of going broke being the good guys.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

You're entitled to your opinion.

Mine is I'm tired of us playing patty cakes in all the military actions. Level a couple of Russian cities. Using Ukraine of course to do it. It looks good for Ukraine and it brings Russia to the table. They didn't nuke us when we funded the Afghans to wage a war on them. Why drag it out for 20 years. If we are gonna print $$ we don't have to fund Ukraine, we may as well make it a big stick. I'm tired of going broke being the good guys.

Our assistance in Afghanistan was much much less. Mostly all small arms and manpads. In order to flatten a few cities we’d have to give Ukraine some pretty heavy duty stuff. Pretty sure Russia would see it differently.
Can’t play patty cakes in military actions you’re not involved in. And that’s how I see it. Putin takes Ukraine won’t affect me in Florida. Belarus doing whatever won’t affect me either. Let Europe deal with it. European nations together are more than capable and more in jeopardy. No reason our contribution percentage should be like 80% of what they’ve gotten. Should be 0.

 

[TallTom]

Our assistance in Afghanistan was much much less. Mostly all small arms and manpads. In order to flatten a few cities we’d have to give Ukraine some pretty heavy duty stuff. Pretty sure Russia would see it differently.
Can’t play patty cakes in military actions you’re not involved in. And that’s how I see it. Putin takes Ukraine won’t affect me in Florida. Belarus doing whatever won’t affect me either. Let Europe deal with it. European nations together are more than capable and more in jeopardy. No reason our contribution percentage should be like 80% of what they’ve gotten. Should be 0.

It's a lot easier to say that if we aren't involved. Unfortunately we decided we are. And walking away now is far more difficult. Now it turns into another messy problem. Biden can't afford to have 2 messy withdrawals in the same term.

And our contribution to the Afghan/Russia conflict was not trivial. They were able to send home the 2nd largest super power in the world at the time.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

It's a lot easier to say that if we aren't involved. Unfortunately we decided we are. And walking away now is far more difficult. Now it turns into another messy problem. Biden can't afford to have 2 messy withdrawals in the same term.

And our contribution to the Afghan/Russia conflict was not trivial. They were able to send home the 2nd largest super power in the world at the time.

Sure we can. We can just say sorry we’re broke. You’re on your own. Bye now.
Nobody has ever conquered Afghanistan. It’s an impenetrable mountainous region. That as well had a lot to do with Russia losing. We gave the Mujahadin no planes, tanks or helos. Stinger missiles and cia training was the large part.

 

[TallTom]

Sure we can. We can just say sorry we’re broke. You’re on your own. Bye now.
Nobody has ever conquered Afghanistan. It’s an impenetrable mountainous region. That as well had a lot to do with Russia losing. We gave the Mujahadin no planes, tanks or helos. Stinger missiles and cia training was the large part.

We could. And I hope we do. But the world would watch leave defeated again. So China will take Taiwan because they know we are weak.

 

[Bumblebee]

The US has occupied the place of word superpower ever since they entered WW2...

There is a cost for that title....if the US wants to have any validity at all on the world scale, it has to play the role....anything else will see the US in isolation and be walked on globally....the US dollar would fall and trade would falter....we know what happens when that takes place....

The issues between Ukraine and Russia goes back almost a century....when Germany occupied Ukraine in WW2, the Ukrainians embraced their ideology and fought against the Soviets when they pushed the Germans back....Ukraine has been occupied by the Soviets until it dissolved in the 80's.....there has always been tension between the two countries and infighting for years and years between the two primarily Russian speaking provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk. Russia saw this invasion as a liberation of these two provinces.

It is a real bone of contention if NATO should have intervened as Ukraine is not a NATO member but NATO had boots on the ground in Ukraine training it's military which was already fighting Russian backed groups in the two eastern provinces....

If NATO stood back and did nothing, this could spark other countries (like China) to conduct operations unopposed....

Global relationships are very complex and fragile all at the same time, a strong NATO will go a long way as a deterrent. If NATO turns away from Ukraine and if Russia is permitted to conquer it, NATO might as well dissolve and let rogue nations take its place.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

We could. And I hope we do. But the world would watch leave defeated again. So China will take Taiwan because they know we are weak.

Ok. That would be another ‘im fine with that’ from me.
Kinda arrogant of us to think an island basically within grasp of mainland China isn’t theirs isn’t it? To me that’s like China saying Grand Bahama was theirs. Taiwan makes semi conductors cheap for us. What else do they have to offer? Nothing we can’t do ourselves.

 

[mark3evo]

Then we got hit them harder. And sell a lot of missle defense systems to NATO countries. Or better yet, teach them how to manufacture them so they can make them for their region and not rely on ours.

If you let Ukraine fall, Belarus will get cocky and conduct "exercises" into a poorly defended neighbor.

Not a chance Belarus is miniscule in size - only home to 10 million people.

you just 'hit the nail on the head' why this war continues

And sell a lot of missle defense systems to NATO countries.

it what the US wants make billions for the defence industry and the sale on more expensive LNG - its always about the money trail