Russia and Ukraine

TallTom said:
Well we have still exempted the oil production from sanctions. But that could change tomorrow. And Russia is reorganizing their central banking system to a new clearing process (like SWIFT but not Swift.). They have 339 members that they can still move money around in.

Which might get him some cash help in the short term.

But yeah once they can't sell oil, (although they can always sell it illegally), his war machine will be difficult to keep going.

Then unfortunately I think he will really put the Ukrainians in a vice. Hostage negotiations.
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SWIFT is so old fashioned, Russians are skilled in the art of moving money around, not many rules on crypto currency which can subvert sanctions
 
JeffSyh said:
Because everything past Ukraine is nato. Nato has to protect nato countries and nato would wipe the floor with Russia if Putin tried to go farther. Unless of course he went for Finland or Sweden since neither are nato.
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The biggest trouble is the nut will use nukes if cornered...

....and we have to remember, no military would be able to launch a ground war against Russia and be successful...and you can have all the air and naval power you want, you still have to have the "mark 1" infantryman to hold ground.
 
Bumblebee said:
The biggest trouble is the nut will use nukes if cornered...

....and we have to remember, no military would be able to launch a ground war against Russia and be successful...and you can have all the air and naval power you want, you still have to have the "mark 1" infantryman to hold ground.
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Nukes is the only thing protecting Russia, if they even tried to go naval or air combat they would get smashed in a few days with massive losses but luckily they have nukes so when the battle shifted off goes the nukes. They have 4 5th gen fighters vs natos roughly 500 5th gen fighters. They wouldn’t be able to fly a single bombing mission without get blown to pieces from miles away. Then we’d sit there all day bombing their ground forces into oblivion.
 
JeffSyh said:
Nukes is the only thing protecting Russia, if they even tried to go naval or air combat they would get smashed in a few days with massive losses but luckily they have nukes so when the battle shifted off goes the nukes. They have 4 5th gen fighters vs natos roughly 500 5th gen fighters. They wouldn’t be able to fly a single bombing mission without get blown to pieces from miles away. Then we’d sit there all day bombing their ground forces into oblivion.
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Yes and no, air superiority is not easily won, if NATO were to invade Russia, it would be via a ground war...something which would be daunting. Russia isn't exactly a push over either.
 
Bumblebee said:
Yes and no, air superiority is not easily won, if NATO were to invade Russia, it would be via a ground war...something which would be daunting. Russia isn't exactly a push over either.
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I personally think nato would destroy Russia in all facets of warfare in a very short amount of time. We are way better trained, way better equipped and way more loyal. We also have way more combat experience which is invaluable.
 
JeffSyh said:
I personally think nato would destroy Russia in all facets of warfare in a very short amount of time. We are way better trained, way better equipped and way more loyal. We also have way more combat experience which is invaluable.
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Everyone thought the same with Russia and the Ukraine...

The bottom line is NATO would still have to take and hold ground which means ground troops.....Russia is vast and it's cities are large and densely populated...it would be a chore and a logistic nightmare to even attempt it...

Kind of like attacking the US or Canada....you'd need some size of military force to even try and it would be a dismal failure.
 
Bumblebee said:
Everyone thought the same with Russia and the Ukraine...

The bottom line is NATO would still have to take and hold ground which means ground troops.....Russia is vast and it's cities are large and densely populated...it would be a chore and a logistic nightmare to even attempt it...

Kind of like attacking the US or Canada....you'd need some size of military force to even try and it would be a dismal failure.
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I’m saying if Russia invaded a nato country even by surprise. Not nato invading Russia.
 
JeffSyh said:
Nukes is the only thing protecting Russia, if they even tried to go naval or air combat they would get smashed in a few days with massive losses but luckily they have nukes so when the battle shifted off goes the nukes. They have 4 5th gen fighters vs natos roughly 500 5th gen fighters. They wouldn’t be able to fly a single bombing mission without get blown to pieces from miles away. Then we’d sit there all day bombing their ground forces into oblivion.
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If Kennedy was our President today, I wonder what he would have done? He did not waiver with the Cuba situation, nukes did not deter him.

Russia knows if they get into nuclear war, they would be vaporized among others.

I believe the world, especially Europe had the obligation to interfere and help in Ukraine with more than just supplies. Putin has been given a blank check to do whatever he wants, because he has nukes. But so does NATO as they have already reminded Putin of that.

And here we are, still buying oil from Russia and not opening all our resources towards driving down prices and helping Europe.
 
JeffSyh said:
I’m saying if Russia invaded a nato country even by surprise. Not nato invading Russia.
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Either way it would lead to that....if Russia invaded a NATO country...the world would be introduced to a world war...the only way to defeat Russia at that point would be to eliminate it's ability to wage war......which would mean a ground invasion of Russia...

Which would meet that invasion with a nuclear solution...it would start as a low yield nuclear defense then work it's way up...
 
jellyrug said:
If Kennedy was our President today, I wonder what he would have done? He did not waiver with the Cuba situation, nukes did not deter him.

Russia knows if they get into nuclear war, they would be vaporized among others.

I believe the world, especially Europe had the obligation to interfere and help in Ukraine with more than just supplies. Putin has been given a blank check to do whatever he wants, because he has nukes. But so does NATO as they have already reminded Putin of that.

And here we are, still buying oil from Russia and not opening all our resources towards driving down prices and helping Europe.
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Russia should have been stopped at the Ukrainian border...

However, the west has already thrown in it's hand by training and supplying the Ukrainian military...

If it didn't have Turkish drones, Stingers and Javelins and use western tactics, the Russians would be a lot further ahead than they are now.
 
There have been countless tabletop exercises done on how to take out Russia during the Cold War if it came to that....none of them were successful

Since the Cold War ended and the Warsaw Pact eroded, there were also many exercises conducted on taking out Russia and none of those were successful..

Bottom line-if you mess with a nuclear capable superpower, bad things can and will happen....Russian aggression is being put in check by the safest method possible right now by piling on the sanctions and denying assets....

Turning off the oil taps is not as easy as a water tap...when you are dependent on that oil, you need it...people see this as a wake up call but there is a danger to having a nationalist approach as well.
 
Bumblebee said:
There have been countless tabletop exercises done on how to take out Russia during the Cold War if it came to that....none of them were successful

Since the Cold War ended and the Warsaw Pact eroded, there were also many exercises conducted on taking out Russia and none of those were successful..

Bottom line-if you mess with a nuclear capable superpower, bad things can and will happen....Russian aggression is being put in check by the safest method possible right now by piling on the sanctions and denying assets....

Turning off the oil taps is not as easy as a water tap...when you are dependent on that oil, you need it...people see this as a wake up call but there is a danger to having a nationalist approach as well.
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How much of this is aired on the Canadian news media?

Over here it is just about the only thing on the news constantly.

I can't remember when I visited there, watching much TV, do you have CNN, Fox, CNBC?
 
jellyrug said:
How much of this is aired on the Canadian news media?

Over here it is just about the only thing on the news constantly.

I can't remember when I visited there, watching much TV, do you have CNN, Fox, CNBC?
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We have all those and then some, we also have the BBC....

I gather most of my media on line through MSN mostly who feature many different news media sources...

....and probably like most places, it is front and center on most news sources.....and they are all basically reporting the same things....
 
If you believe the press, Russians are now shelling the largest nuclear power plant in the Ukraine. Is this little bastid crazy enough to blow up Chernobyl and Zaporizhzhia and create an uninhabitable nuclear winter wasteland there? "If we cant have it no one will" mentality? How many world leaders do you suppose have their finger poised over the button right now!
 
bigoltool said:
If you believe the press, Russians are now shelling the largest nuclear power plant in the Ukraine. Is this little bastid crazy enough to blow up Chernobyl and Zaporizhzhia and create an uninhabitable nuclear winter wasteland there? "If we cant have it no one will" mentality? How many world leaders do you suppose have their finger poised over the button right now!
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Let us hope this is true, because if that melts down no doubt the radiation ☢️ could blow over my house and I’m 1,750 miles away

SKY NEWS

Reactors 'are being safely shut down', US says​

US Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm says her department has now activated its nuclear incident response team, and is monitoring events at the power plant.
She added that the facility's reactors are now being safely shut down - and they are protected by robust containment structures.
 
Standing back and watching from afar
You see Zelenski ramping up the narrative to escalate the defence response from EU , NATO

Fire was in building used for training I hear
Fire now being put out , if this melted down the effects could be 10 times greater than Chernobyl and would affect Belarus and probably Russia as well as nearby Poland

You would have though common sense would prevail !!!!!
 
Someone else thinking what I may be thinking.

“Professor Sir Lawrence Freedman, Emeritus Professor of War Studies at Kings College, London, wrote this week: "It is now as likely that there will be regime change in Moscow as in Kyiv."”
 
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