Russia and Ukraine

[mark3evo]

Jeez they were lucky Sky Team all alive
Attacked by hit team

Ukraine invasion: Sky News team under fire as ambushed near Kyiv

The harrowing experience of this Sky News team illustrates the scale of the mayhem and violence as Russia's invasion enters a new and deadlier phase.

news.sky.com

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

I heard it in sky news but no where in the numbers heading west

Yeah I’d read that the count was less than 50,000 heading into Russia.

 

[Zerks]

I would say there are more than a few subs sitting off the coasts ready and willing just like the US has....

Nobody wins in a nuclear resolution but by that point, nobody will care...

Technology has advanced in many ways, Russia has already shown their hand with Hypersonic missiles and in my experience, what is shown to the public is only a fraction of what is available.

Who would enforce a "no fly zone?" fighter jets would and that would entail shooting down anything that didn't comply....then the SAMs would become a threat and the next thing you know the air assets are engaging ground mounted SAMs, then anti-air artillery would come into play and the next thing you know, the air assets would be engaging those and so on and so on...

NATO in creating a no fly zone would be entering the war.

The world sat by when the US invaded Iraq, Syria, Libya, so what's one more country?

Putin has already shown he's nuts....I wouldn't put a lot of faith into him not doing something stupid..

Sanctions will put his own people against him...if you are a leader who doesn't have the support of your own people....what do you have?

Who does Putin have you ask? The same kind of people with vast resources that will benefit if and or when the takeover of Ukraine is final. Putin isn't acting alone... he has insiders with great wealth that he has been doing favors for.... for years. Every thug or mobster like Putin has an inner circle of connected and like minded accomplices adding whatever they can to the takeover of Ukraine. Social media and other communication channels are being curtailed because Putin and company don't want the word to get out on the brutality and suffering taking place next door. Who do you think is helping to make that happen?

About Iraq as you mentioned. The UN got the lies from General Powell and the members believed what the general was saying about weapons of mass destruction. I don't recall if their was some sort of consenous or a vote among UN members... It was a sales pitch... and it worked.

 

[Zerks]

After reviewing history I have great respect for General Powell. May he Rest In Peace.

 

[jellyrug]

WW3 will not be ONLY the problem of Russia...let that be known...nuclear fall out will spread all over the earth....

WW3 will be nuclear....that's why cooler heads have to prevail....hot heads will get NATO into a war we don't want...

I don't condone what Putin ordered his military to do however the US has been doing this for years-I've been there and have seen the outcome of their invasions first hand....it's not pretty.

Regarding that “No Fly Zone”
I am a simple person but why can’t we sell Ukraine our “UNMANED DRONES” for 1$ each and take out all those tanks and armed vehicles in that 40 mile long convoy???
Is there something I am missing??
Would that help them??

As far as the US invading a neighbor with the intent to make it part of the US, as another state or possession, can you quote an example from modern times?

 

[Bumblebee]

Regarding that “No Fly Zone”
I am a simple person but why can’t we sell Ukraine our “UNMANED DRONES” for 1$ each and take out all those tanks and armed vehicles in that 40 mile long convoy???
Is there something I am missing??
Would that help them??

As far as the US invading a neighbor with the intent to make it part of the US, as another state or possession, can you quote an example from modern times?

Turkey has given Ukraine Bayraktar drones and they are using them to effect..Ukraine also has an airforce and they have been hitting the convoy as well. Without giving the Ukraine transponders, if NATO tried to implement a no fly zone, Ukraine would not be able to operate.

Although the US didn't intend for any country it invaded to be part of it's own, the countries it invaded didn't need or want to be invaded, they resisted and both military and civilians died....

Once they were taken a puppet government was inserted by the US and controlled by the US....and not one of them have been successful yet.

 

[Bumblebee]

Where'd you hear that?

Saw it on the news, it showed routes people were taking out of the Ukraine and one of the arrows pointed towards Russia...

 

[Bumblebee]

Yeah I’d read that the count was less than 50,000 heading into Russia.

That's the population of a small city if it is accurate...

 

[TallTom]

The Ukraine was not given NATO membership so that senario you described wouldn't come into play. NATO isn't interested in going to war over the Ukraine and so they shouldn't that would be stupid

Sure it can. Ukrainians can allow anyone into their airspace they want. Plenty of nations have air resources that can aide them. Just because Ukraine is not NATO has nothing to do with it.

 

[Bumblebee]

Sure it can. Ukrainians can allow anyone into their airspace they want. Plenty of nations have air resources that can aide them. Just because Ukraine is not NATO has nothing to do with it.

Any air assets entering Ukrainian air space would be at great risk and peril.

This is why aid is arriving via convoy not by air.

...and Ukraine not being part of NATO has everything to do with it. Ukraine was not able to join the EU or NATO due to the fact it has been engaged in contention for years, the entire eastern flack of Ukraine has been engaged in overt warfare between Russian backed separatists and Ukrainian forces.

It was only a matter of time before Russia invaded and pretty much everyone knew that. There was a reason the west was in Ukraine providing military training and providing weapons....it was because the threat of invasion was prevalent....and has been for some time (years).

 

[Martin.UK]

Russians heading for Finland

Many are now worried that Putin's government might soon introduce martial law, so are heading for Finland.

 

[fallenarch]

On missile defense, If I am correct there are point defense systems that can protect a specific target but not that could protect an entire country. Hypersonic missiles move so fast they can't be shot down by conventional missiles. A hypersonic missile is moving significantly faster than the bullets from something like a phalanx Gatling gun. The only defense against something going this fast once it goes into its hypersonic descent is a laser, which may or may not be operational at this time. Russia also has nuke-tipped cruise missiles that can follow the terrain. That means the missile comes in at near-supersonic speeds at 20 feet off the ground. That's nearly impossible to shoot down.

The media is trying to make Ukraine such a victim that public opinion pushes us into the conflict. This is just plain stupid. First of all, NATO is a defense pact, there is no authority to enter a conflict when a member nation is not under attack. I think this is why the media is playing up the nuke power plant attack. Russia fired on the security building, not directly on the critical plant stuff. Further, if they are trying to take the country, did we think they wouldn't go after the largest Nuke plant in Europe? But the propaganda over a melt-down and fallout makes a credible threat to the rest of Europe - so NATO can act under its charter.

The bottom line is Ukraine is where it is because they were completely unprotected. I think there are going to be a lot of NATO applications coming in! Note also that we didn't add Ukraine because we didn't want to be automatically drawn into a direct conflict with Russia. Russia has been fighting former USSR member nations for years and Russia has been very aggressive. So this is not a new war, it's an escalation of one that the world has sat back and let happen for a long time. It was a mistake to go into Ukraine, but it's easy to see how Putin made it.

Letting this conflict widen is the dumbest thing you could possibly do as a leader. The killing would be on a scale never seen before. The sanctions are going to impact Putin and this whole mess has been flipped to where it is threatening Putin's own political survival. Unfortunately, that's not going to help Ukraine.

 

[fallenarch]

Any air assets entering Ukrainian air space would be at great risk and peril.

This is why aid is arriving via convoy not by air.

...and Ukraine not being part of NATO has everything to do with it. Ukraine was not able to join the EU or NATO due to the fact it has been engaged in contention for years, the entire eastern flack of Ukraine has been engaged in overt warfare between Russian backed separatists and Ukrainian forces.

It was only a matter of time before Russia invaded and pretty much everyone knew that. There was a reason the west was in Ukraine providing military training and providing weapons....it was because the threat of invasion was prevalent....and has been for some time (years).

good points you beat me to it!

 

[Bumblebee]

On missile defense, If I am correct there are point defense systems that can protect a specific target but not that could protect an entire country. Hypersonic missiles move so fast they can't be shot down by conventional missiles. A hypersonic missile is moving significantly faster than the bullets from something like a phalanx Gatling gun. The only defense against something going this fast once it goes into its hypersonic descent is a laser, which may or may not be operational at this time. Russia also has nuke-tipped cruise missiles that can follow the terrain. That means the missile comes in at near-supersonic speeds at 20 feet off the ground. That's nearly impossible to shoot down.

The media is trying to make Ukraine such a victim that public opinion pushes us into the conflict. This is just plain stupid. First of all, NATO is a defense pact, there is no authority to enter a conflict when a member nation is not under attack. I think this is why the media is playing up the nuke power plant attack. Russia fired on the security building, not directly on the critical plant stuff. Further, if they are trying to take the country, did we think they wouldn't go after the largest Nuke plant in Europe? But the propaganda over a melt-down and fallout makes a credible threat to the rest of Europe - so NATO can act under its charter.

The bottom line is Ukraine is where it is because they were completely unprotected. I think there are going to be a lot of NATO applications coming in! Note also that we didn't add Ukraine because we didn't want to be automatically drawn into a direct conflict with Russia. Russia has been fighting former USSR member nations for years and Russia has been very aggressive. So this is not a new war, it's an escalation of one that the world has sat back and let happen for a long time. It was a mistake to go into Ukraine, but it's easy to see how Putin made it.

Letting this conflict widen is the dumbest thing you could possibly do as a leader. The killing would be on a scale never seen before. The sanctions are going to impact Putin and this whole mess has been flipped to where it is threatening Putin's own political survival. Unfortunately, that's not going to help Ukraine.

Also very good points which make perfect sense...

The west has been sitting on this for years and have done little other than training Ukrainian forces and providing some weaponry. It was a known fact there was a valid threat Russia would invade at some point.

The media is really working this invasion hard.....warfighting isn't pretty, it isn't romantic...it is down and dirty with people getting killed, wounded and displaced....

 

[Bumblebee]

Russians heading for Finland

Many are now worried that Putin's government might soon introduce martial law, so are heading for Finland.

Well, there are lots of protests going on so that makes sense...

 

[jellyrug]

Turkey has given Ukraine Bayraktar drones and they are using them to effect..Ukraine also has an airforce and they have been hitting the convoy as well. Without giving the Ukraine transponders, if NATO tried to implement a no fly zone, Ukraine would not be able to operate.

Although the US didn't intend for any country it invaded to be part of it's own, the countries it invaded didn't need or want to be invaded, they resisted and both military and civilians died....

Once they were taken a puppet government was inserted by the US and controlled by the US....and not one of them have been successful yet.

Were the evasions for no reason whatsoever?

 

[Bumblebee]

Were the evasions for no reason whatsoever?

Iraq....after Iraq invaded Kuwait, the US went in to chasse them out....that was all about oil protection-not the plight of the Kuwaiti people

It was a great testing ground for unproven US hardware....the Bradley, Abrams, Patriot, A-10 and Apache all got a good work out.

 

[jellyrug]

Iraq....there was a feigned ploy of having WMD....no absolute proof and nothing found after the fact..

It was a great testing ground for unproven US hardware....the Bradley, Abrams, Patriot, A-10 and Apache all got a good work out.

Iraq I agree, but did we hit civilian targets as part of the plan?

You are comparing a first world European country being invaded for no reason to the ME.

Do you think that is realistic?

 

[Bumblebee]

Iraq I agree, but did we hit civilian targets as part of the plan?

You are comparing a first world European country being invaded for no reason to the ME.

Do you think that is realistic?

I do, not all the people within the ME are evil terrorists...many are just regular people trying to scrape out a living.

Civilian assets are not being targeted but take a look at a map of any city and try and depict the military assets verses the military assets.

I have yet to see any conflict anywhere that civilians haven't been caught in the crossfire. Add to this the Ukraines are the defenders and are most likely using these civilian assets for cover....I mentioned this in a previous thread, as soon as militaries enter into a FIBUA situation and come under fire from military assets within say an apartment building, that building will disappear. It happened all the time in Iraq....whole city sectors would get leveled to oust a sniper....

I also mentioned that Ukraine has been the target of a Russian invasion for years and years...pretty much ever since the annex of Crimea.....this invasion wasn't a shock to the western military operational planners. The west was rushing military training of Ukrainian troops for just this reason.

 

[jellyrug]

I do, not all the people within the ME are evil terrorists...many are just regular people trying to scrape out a living.

Civilian assets are not being targeted but take a look at a map of any city and try and depict the military assets verses the military assets.

I have yet to see any conflict anywhere that civilians haven't been caught in the crossfire. Add to this the Ukraines are the defenders and are most likely using these civilian assets for cover....I mentioned this in a previous thread, as soon as militaries enter into a FIBUA situation and come under fire from military assets within say an apartment building, that building will disappear. It happened all the time in Iraq....whole city sectors would get leveled to oust a sniper....

I also mentioned that Ukraine has been the target of a Russian invasion for years and years...pretty much ever since the annex of Crimea.....this invasion wasn't a shock to the western military operational planners. The west was rushing military training of Ukrainian troops for just this reason.

So let’s do a quick summary,

Ukraine did not harbor terrorists, neither did they have internal bloodshed due to tribal and faction differences.

You are then complacent with the idea of hitting Putin with only those sanctions that do not hurt us?

That we supply weapons only?

That we stand by to witness an innocent nation being wiped out, and we allow it?

That after Putin’s Ukraine Victory we just wait for his next move and we again allow it?