Of course not but you’re jumping from surrender to nukes. There’s a lot of escalation between those two scenarios.
Russia and Ukraine
- Thread starter Bumblebee
- Start date
Of course not but you’re jumping from surrender to nukes. There’s a lot of escalation between those two scenarios.
What “research”?
Escalation is escalation....the nuclear solution is the most dire condition but when you start pushing a nuclear armed superpower into a corner with a leader like Putin, all cards are on the table at that point...
Something happened to make Putin decide to invade Ukraine, this was a thought out plan and probably in the works ever since he annexed Crimea.
Whether they (Russia) were in talks with Ukraine over their demands (which were made public) and the Ukrainian leader pissed him off or threatened Ukraine's entry into NATO or the EU..we will never know....
There has been some talk around the water cooler that Putin saw Biden as a weakling and if Trump was still in power he would have never invaded....perhaps....but why wouldn't Putin invade right after the election before the new party could gather their senses....? If there is talk they didn't know what Biden would do, the guy has been in politics for many years so I'd wager they knew all about him by then.
Something sparked this invasion-an invasion that Putin knew would be unpopular and lead to world issues....he might be a lot of things but an idiot is not one of them.
I guess history will tell us the reason......
Whether they (Russia) were in talks with Ukraine over their demands (which were made public) and the Ukrainian leader pissed him off or threatened Ukraine's entry into NATO or the EU..we will never know....
There has been some talk around the water cooler that Putin saw Biden as a weakling and if Trump was still in power he would have never invaded....perhaps....but why wouldn't Putin invade right after the election before the new party could gather their senses....? If there is talk they didn't know what Biden would do, the guy has been in politics for many years so I'd wager they knew all about him by then.
Something sparked this invasion-an invasion that Putin knew would be unpopular and lead to world issues....he might be a lot of things but an idiot is not one of them.
I guess history will tell us the reason......
How long has Russia had nukes? Since Cuba in the 60s? Their first test was in 1949.
Google is a medium, a search engine. The source man, what’s the source of that information?
JeffSyh
Registered
Putin says Russia will emerge stronger, sanctions will rebound
President Vladimir Putin says sanctions on Russia would lead to higher food and energy prices in the West.
Sounds like we are in for the long haul... it is only a matter of time before nato gets involved. People are also worried about gas but what about fertilizer? Just wait till farmers can’t plant a crop or have to plant one at extreme costs. Fertilizer is just as if not more important to Europe then oil is.
mark3evo
Registered
what sparked the invasion was the NATO 2008 Bucharest summit, NATO announced Georgia and Ukraine should join NATO. So NATO a defensive organisation wants to get even closer to Putin.
Balance of Power upset! Putin stating this must not happen. ( he was never bothered with Baltic NATO states too insignificant(
Georgia thinking they have a bigger brother - causes Putin to invade and add Puppet leader again a buffer state.. It kicked off in 2013 Ukraine when the president said no to EU and a small coo caused an election.
new president cancel minority rights - 1 day later Russian backed separatists annex Luhansk and Russia walk into Crimea with no need to fire a bullet.
Zelenski takes charge and starts buying weapons from Turkey drones and warship. EU and NATO start cozying up to Ukraine. Buffer state between Russia will join NATO and with Potential EU money economy starts looking west. It would not be happy state Russians envying Ukraine prosperity.
better to keep Ukraine in check , better to be allied to Russia. Putin bad intel from FSB states Russia could march in unopposed..
Now here we are .. bogged down
that is my take on it.
I saw on a media source a column of Russian armor was hit killing their commander forcing the column to retreat.
Those Javelins are no joke...I've seen what they can do to T-72 and T-90 tanks...I don't think there is a tank that can stand against them. The T-14 Armada tanks is supposed to have defensive stand off systems that might help if there is enough space and time for them to react.
As Russia loses more and more equipment and personnel, they will change their tactics and raze everything in their path....death and destruction will follow at a terrifying level.
Those Javelins are no joke...I've seen what they can do to T-72 and T-90 tanks...I don't think there is a tank that can stand against them. The T-14 Armada tanks is supposed to have defensive stand off systems that might help if there is enough space and time for them to react.
As Russia loses more and more equipment and personnel, they will change their tactics and raze everything in their path....death and destruction will follow at a terrifying level.
JeffSyh
Registered
Yup people think Russia is losing but if they changed to pure air power the Russians would smash Ukraine into a million pieces. Russia seems to be trying to not destroy the country but that might change.
TallTom
Registered
A few reasons.
1. They walked into Crimea when Biden was in office.
2. They watched how he walked away from Afghanistan. That was shortly after he took office.
3. It's not hard to see we are financially strapped.
4. The previous administration was not very proactive in trying to get Ukraine into NATO.
5. Zelinski was not in office until about the same time Biden took office. He doesn't have the influence on Zelenski, that he did in previous years.
6. Zelenski was less tolerant of the separatist portions that Putin had been fueling.
7. If Ukraine was accepted into NATO, which looked imminent, it would have turned into a war against all the NATO nations if he tried to invade.
If Putin was going to get Ukraine, this was his last opportunity.
mark3evo
Registered
Walked into Crimea under Obama
TallTom
Registered
Biden was VP.
They haven't committed full ground power yet either...T-72 tanks are old and obsolete
1. Crimea was 2014 even as a VP, Biden didn't have the final say
2. The exit from Afghanistan started in 2012...by the time the US left there were less than 5000 troops on the ground....even with 200,000 NATO troops, the Taliban still prevailed....there was a big plan for the US to leave Afghanistan and the same thing would have happened with Trump in charge.
3. Russia and the world are in the same boat-all countries are financially strapped right now.
4. Ukraine was non-admissible due to it having internal strife with the separatists
5. Don't know
6. Regardless of his tolerance, there was open combat occurring in those regions between separatists and Ukraine forces
7. This refers to question #4 Ukraine was involved in an open dispute with Russia...if NATO would have admitted them, that open dispute would have then become NATOs problem....
Here’s a shot for reference. Although Ukraine is a pretty big country, compared to the boundary of Russia it’s not that big of an addition…except that it’s a pretty good push farther west. Still, even
with Ukraine Russia would still be fairly surrounded by NATO countries. Not at all comparable to our Cuba missile debacle for example.
Here’s what’s east of Moscow.
TallTom
Registered
1. Aligned with his boss. Extension of the same ideologies.
2. Leaving in a rush and leaving stranded allies was planned?
3. Russia has been in a poor economy for decades. We've gone down farther faster as Russia was starting to head in the better direction than we were. Despite the sanctions that had been placed on them prior to this. He underestimated the rest of the allies willingness to share the cost.
4. Joining NATO was all but guaranteed. Biden said so straight to Putin. Internal strife doesn't exclude a country. Serbia is an example.
5. As recently as 2014 Putin had an aligned regime there. Until the population revolted and he fled the country.
6. We can agree to disagree.
7. Or it would have provided a larger policing force that could have squelched Russian assistance in the region.
Putin's original excuse for not backing down was his unwillingness to allow Ukraine to be admitted. He claimed he would not invade if the NATO nations backed off of Ukraine inclusion. The response........that was non negotiable.
And we've seen his willingness to make an example out of it.
Similar threads
